New to this case and new to the forum

[leslievernon]

there were some animals in that general area, i guess we can at least agree on that. that it is a possibility.

going back to the general wounds:
that wound with the "x" in the center still perplexes me.. i saw it again today. this, and the grid-like pattern on steven's thigh is also interesting, i mean talking about wounds that are clearly not from an animal or human. turvey also mentiond that in his report:

"There is an unexplained directional pattern abrasion just below the victim's [m.moore] right anterior shoulder area.
This unexplained injury does not correspond with any of the physical evidence collected at the location that victim was discovered. It is furthermore inconsistent with any of the naturally occurring elements that exist in that environment. The best conclusion that this examiner can reach is that this pattern abrasion was created by forceful, directional contact with something that was not found at that crime scene, whether it be a weapon, a surface or something else capable of creating that pattern."

the x-wound: from a pistol? i mean the screw at the bottom...

 

[leslievernon]

yeah the ropes... yes, creepy, i agree..
also wasn't the treehouse destroyed? wooden planks i think is what they also found there at the scene..

yes, half-moon wounds i also saw today when going through google pics. i just won't dare look at it sometimes i admit it. hundreds... of such small wounds i guess was counted. just completely horrible..

 

[Userid]

Yes, the x wound is very perplexing. Many theories on it. After the creek was completely drained, there was a rusty screwdriver recovered from the bottom of the creek, right where the bodies were found. It was found "straight up," as if someone purposefully stuck it into the mud, up to the handle only. Oddly, you don't hear a lot about this; and I think it's extremely important. The fact the killer stuck sticks in the mud, and the fact this screwdriver was stuck in the mud -- coincidence?

Anyways, I used to think that the x could have come from the screwdriver, assuming it was a phillip's head.

There is a picture of this somewhere, but I can't find it right now; perhaps tomorrow.

 

[Userid]

yeah the ropes... yes, creepy, i agree..
also wasn't the treehouse destroyed? wooden planks i think is what they also found there at the scene..

yes, half-moon wounds i also saw today when going through google pics. i just won't dare look at it sometimes i admit it. hundreds... of such small wounds i guess was counted. just completely horrible..

Yes, wooden planks were found on Turtle Hill I believe. Also, there were reports that the tree house was "up in the trees," and police actually found markings high up in the trees that indicated that a structure was once there -- those are also on Cally's. You can see the police on ladders and they snap a few shots of the spots where the bark had been altered.

 

[leslievernon]

"After the creek was completely drained, there was a rusty screwdriver recovered from the bottom of the creek, right where the bodies were found. It was found "straight up," as if someone purposefully stuck it into the mud, up to the handle only. Oddly, you don't hear a lot about this; and I think it's extremely important. The fact the killer stuck sticks in the mud, and the fact this screwdriver was stuck in the mud -- coincidence?"

no, that makes sense actually. and i guess around of that was some kind of jaw-outline, wasn't it... what do you think - didn't they all believe back then that it was the bitemark of an "angry mom"... chris' mother?

here is the x-wound picture. (graphic content)

 

[Alyssa Edwards]

Morning all!

So I have just read the documents on the statements of "Chad Bell" who was friends with Chris Byres Brother, Ryan, at the time of the murders. He describes one occasion where he (Chad) and Ryan witnessed Chris and Michael (i'm assuming he is referring to Michael Moore?) "having sex" or attempting to "have sex", he also describes an incident where he and Ryan walked in on Chris in his room and he was "jerking off". This has really disturbed me, why would 8 year old boys be behaving in such a way? was this ever investigated?

 

[Alyssa Edwards]

I may be reading it wrong but it certainly looks like he was referring to Chris Byres, I could be wrong about it being Michael Moore though, can anyone confirm?

 

[leslievernon]

@Alyssa

i cannot remember chad bell's statements, or if the police looked into that. but they did look into the background of the 3 boys though. to find anything of sexual or abusive nature.

from what i wrote together reg. the boys, the only slightly disturbing things i noted were:
ryan, chris' older brother, watched both mike and chris when they were in their first year of school throwing feces at each other in the schoolyard.
chris started some small fires in the schoolyard, which made his mom melissa suspicious reg. abuse. chris was hyperactive as we know.

what might be interesting here is:
there was a boy named george who apparently hung out with the boys.
melissa byers said that chris was vanished for some hours, came back and said he played with a boy named george. (chris coming back with soiled jeans indicating he was at RHH) melissa never knew who that boy was.
terry hobbs, steven's stepfather, also confirmed "a little boy named george". stating in 2007 that it was george, chris and mike who were steven's friends at that time.

that's all there is to george. and, of course, that he was just lucky not to be with his friends on may 5th, i mean...

 

[k-mac]

I may be reading it wrong but it certainly looks like he was referring to Chris Byres, I could be wrong about it being Michael Moore though, can anyone confirm?

very disturbing to think kiddies are up to such things so early

wonder if this does refer to those boys ,if their torture and subsequent murders resulted from everybody knowing this occurred some 8 weeks earlier.....

making fun of them till it wasn't funny anymore???
kinda brings a thought process maybe to this mindless cruel shocking event.

wonder what the 3 convicted's perspectives on homosexuality where back then.

I do not enjoy talking about innocent little boys no matter what they engaged in together is not ok to talk about them in a gossipy way but when its in statements the relevance could be there.
could also be horse crap though, kids embellishments are just as appealling as their truths.
so I hope if their families read here they know no judgement comes at them or the boys.
they were normal kids and didn't deserve the fate that found them.

 

[Alyssa Edwards]

Here is a link to one of his statements, perhaps you guys could read it and see if you think I am correct in thinking this is referring to Chris Byres and Michael Moore or was there another Michael they were friends with?

http://callahan.mysite.com/images2/c_bell/c_bell_interview2_01.JPG

I had no idea about any of the boys being victims or engaging in any such abuse

 

[leslievernon]

@Alyssa

thx.
well, talking about abuse... according to the 2009 affidavits of mary hicks, judy sadler, sheila hicks muse and pam hobbs herself - steven was a victim to his stepfather's abuse.

 

[Userid]

"After the creek was completely drained, there was a rusty screwdriver recovered from the bottom of the creek, right where the bodies were found. It was found "straight up," as if someone purposefully stuck it into the mud, up to the handle only. Oddly, you don't hear a lot about this; and I think it's extremely important. The fact the killer stuck sticks in the mud, and the fact this screwdriver was stuck in the mud -- coincidence?"

no, that makes sense actually. and i guess around of that was some kind of jaw-outline, wasn't it... what do you think - didn't they all believe back then that it was the bitemark of an "angry mom"... chris' mother?

here is the x-wound picture. (graphic content)

Yes, many believe those are "teeth marks" above and below the x mark. I vehemently do not believe this. I don't suggest this, because it's tough, but that cropped photo doesn't tell the whole story. If you ever view the full photograph, you will see that the "lower teeth" (the crescent shapes below the x mark) extend far off, toward the left of SB's eyebrow and to his left temple. Also, these crescent shapes are seen all over SB's left side of his face; in addition to the lip/chin area of CB. It's a gruesome photo; too gruesome to post, in my opinion; but it tells the whole story.

Yes, it was supposed it was CB's mother (when JMB was the suspect-of-the-month, before TH), JMB, and now TH. But it's a red herring, because that isn't a bite mark. At least in my opinion.

 

[Userid]

Here is a link to one of his statements, perhaps you guys could read it and see if you think I am correct in thinking this is referring to Chris Byres and Michael Moore or was there another Michael they were friends with?

http://callahan.mysite.com/images2/c_bell/c_bell_interview2_01.JPG

I had no idea about any of the boys being victims or engaging in any such abuse

You're right Alyssa. MM and CB were spied on while trying to engage in sexual activity by RC and his friend (well, supposedly of course, according to this statement). That is MM that is being referred to in the report.

It was supposed for a while that the boys were engaging in a similar activity, just before they were murdered, most likely by a family member or an extremely religious man who had come across them in the act. In other words, the boys were punished on the spot for engaging in this act. This is simply one of many theories, based on what's on Cally's.

 

[leslievernon]

there's gotta be an explanation for those weird wounds. yes, i couldnt look at it long but i saw blond hair so i suppose it was SBs body.. yes, the face.

well, i mean... so there we have sexual things with all 3 - steven had an unhealthy environment with the hobbs guy in the house. chris also did not hit jackpot with john mark byers... micheal moore - i always thought he was the most "normal" one.. normal household. the only thing i know about him is that he said he wanna be an undercover agent.. i guess he said that to pam (that's why he had his sherrifs star..)

@Userid
i tend to agree with you reg. the x-wound - there is only 3, or mabye even 2, teeth-like looking marks under the x, but there is too much space in between them, i mean, who's got lower teeth like that?

what do you mean reg. stevens face? (like you said you dont have to post pics, if you do just add a warning of course)

 

[Userid]

what do you mean reg. stevens face? (like you said you dont have to post pics, if you do just add a warning of course)

I meant there are "teeth marks" (or whatever those crescent shapes are) all over SB's face. The way those photos are cropped, you don't see them, since they only show a small portion of SB's face. Since they are all over his face, in random patterns, that disproves that the ones in the photo are a "bite mark."

I won't post those photos because like I said, they are too gruesome; people can choose to find them on their own if they so chose. I would advise against it, personally.

 

[leslievernon]

i know what you mean reg. the crescent shapes. i am looking at the actual pics right now.
peretti is talking about cutting wounds in the SB autopsy report when describing SBs left face side.

that long straight cut, as seen on the shaved head of steven(?) can't possibly be from a knife.. i mean, show me a knife that big...... whatever it was it seemed to have gone right into the skull.. jesus. do you know what pic i mean? what the hell was that?

ETA:
there is a wound that i am just looking at... SBs head, the chin, from a front lower angle.. maybe one of the worst... but - come on - if this boys face wasn't gnawed on or partly eaten... tell me that you know what i mean and you agree.

(i know this is just horrible stuff i apologize but it is for the sake of argument)

 

[Userid]

i know what you mean reg. the crescent shapes. i am looking at the actual pics right now.
peretti is talking about cutting wounds in the SB autopsy report when describing SBs left face side.

that long straight cut, as seen on the shaved head of steven(?) can't possibly be from a knife.. i mean, show me a knife that big...... whatever it was it seemed to have gone right into the skull.. jesus. do you know what pic i mean? what the hell was that?

ETA:
there is a wound that i am just looking at... SBs head, the chin, from a front lower angle.. maybe one of the worst... but - come on - if this boys face wasn't gnawed on or partly eaten... tell me that you know what i mean and you agree.

(i know this is just horrible stuff i apologize but it is for the sake of argument)

The left side, to me, doesn't look gnawed at all. It clearly looks like it was attacked with an implement. We know, via the crescent marks, that at least one implement was already used on his face. Is that just a coincidence? That the killer used at least one implement, on SB's face, and that an animal just so happened to feed on exactly that same part? No, in my opinion. Logic would say, that if a killer already was using an implement on the boy's face, with the intent on inflicting damage/pain, that all those facial wounds were inflicted by that same source (i.e. the killer). Same goes with the drowning -- the fact that the boys were found in the creek, and the fact they drowned, would have logic tell you that this is where they drowned. Now, it isn't impossible for the boys to have drowned somewhere else, but the odds are not good and that is ignoring what we know.

I still believe Peretti's analysis in the rule 37 hearing is the most sound. In SB's left cheek, you could clearly see where a knife goes through the cheek.

Let's look at it his way: if a wild dog had been chewing, this violently, on two of the boys, there's no way their bodies would have stayed beneath the surface of the creek. The dog would have jostled them out of position.

 

[leslievernon]

reg. drowning: wouldn't there be water in the storm drain(s) around the wooded area? i know that there was little to no rain from may 5th to 6th, but what about the bayou, nearby.. wouldn't that flush water back into them?
if there was actually no water in any of those holes, then my theory is out the window of course, cause as you said, they drowned.

you have to have, and that includes me and you too, an eye for something, in this case for the possibility that some of those wounds were man-made, some by an object, and some by animals, considering it all happened in a wooded area in a rather warm climate.

anyway, i couldn't see any clear pattern there at the chin and left side, to me it looked pretty chaotic. that's why i said animal... of course a maniac with some kind of tool could have achieved probably the same result. i really can't say.

 

[Userid]

I'm not sure about the manholes -- how much water was or wasn't in them, etc.

I will heed to the notion that some of the wounds could have been caused by all of the above. We simply will never know, most likely. If I had to guess though, I would say that the time frame for a roaming animal to "feed" on these boys, wouldn't be substantial. Those woods were searched all throughout the night, remember -- by a plethora of people. JMB, RC, TH, PH, JH, Slater, Bosky, probably more I'm forgetting -- they all searched throughout the night. JMB even said he and RC drove JMB's truck around the woods and next to the blue beacon in the early hours of that morning, looking for the boys (although there were never any tracks present, which is quite suspicious, but I digress). My point is, all of this activity would scare off an animal.

My main point and belief is, if there is animal predation, it's minimal. The only thing that I can say looks like animal predation, is the claw mark on MM's chest; and even that, I'm iffy about. If I have to choose a definitive answer one way or the other, with the above in mind, I would say that no animal predation occurred -- and that although MM's chest does appear like a claw mark, it isn't. But I can't necessarily blame you for believing otherwise.

 

[Alyssa Edwards]

You're right Alyssa. MM and CB were spied on while trying to engage in sexual activity by RC and his friend (well, supposedly of course, according to this statement). That is MM that is being referred to in the report.

It was supposed for a while that the boys were engaging in a similar activity, just before they were murdered, most likely by a family member or an extremely religious man who had come across them in the act. In other words, the boys were punished on the spot for engaging in this act. This is simply one of many theories, based on what's on Cally's.

This is so sad boys that age even knowing how to engage in such acts is truly disturbing" this case is much more complex than I first thought