New to this case - what should I read/watch?

[claudicici]

I said that before it's just so strange to me how people can read the same thing and come up with a completely different conclusion.Having read the pre-trial documents I just can't understand why anyone would still believe they are guilty?

 

[Cappuccino]

I have read documents at callahans, and trial transcripts. No need to assume if a person does not agree that the WM3 are innocent, that we haven't read the documents. Wow.

I don't think anyone was assuming that Peepers. You have told us several times that you're only part way through your first reading of Devil's Knot, and you don't know much about this case, and you haven't made up your mind yet. Its from that information that we're assuming you are new to the case and haven't read all the documents, not because you disagree with us.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I don't think anyone was assuming that Peepers. You have told us several times that you're only part way through your first reading of Devil's Knot, and you don't know much about this case, and you haven't made up your mind yet. Its from that information that we're assuming you are new to the case and haven't read all the documents, not because you disagree with us.

I have often encountered the "read at Callahan's and you'll see that they're guilty" advice from non supporters. Why they would assume that I had not read the trial documents is beyond me. However, like claudicici said, two people can read the same documents and come to two different conclusions. Here's food for thought: Why has no one every made a documentary stating (or implying) that Damien, Jason and Jessie are guilty?

Back on topic, hopefully it won't be too much longer until we have the results from the further testing to discuss. IIRC, the fibers were being retested to see if the garments collected from the homes of Damien and Jason were actual matches or if those garments can be excluded. There is more testing ongoing, also. Unfortunately, the contents of Stevie's stomach (the green vegetable-like matter) was not properly stored and therefore cannot be tested again. However, I keep hearing that there is much more information from the testing that is forthcoming. I'm getting a bit impatient, but I can do nothing but wait. I'll post a link whenever it's made publicly available.

 

[Pensfan]

I have often encountered the "read at Callahan's and you'll see that they're guilty" advice from non supporters. Why they would assume that I had not read the trial documents is beyond me. However, like claudicici said, two people can read the same documents and come to two different conclusions. Here's food for thought: Why has no one every made a documentary stating (or implying) that Damien, Jason and Jessie are guilty?

A jury "documented" their guilt and America "watched" this documentary in their newspapers and television news as it unfolded.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

A jury "documented" their guilt and America "watched" this documentary in their newspapers and television news as it unfolded.

CNN and other news channels also documented the release on August 19, 2011. There have been countless newspaper articles and television news pieces that have also documented this situation as the terrible miscarriage of justice that is was. My question is why, if for no other reason than to counter the numerous shows chronicling this case as a miscarriage of justice (which it truly was), has no producer or director come forward to present the case as if the WMFree were guilty?

Juries can be wrong. That's why we have an appeals process in this country. In this case, two juries got it wrong. Thankfully, some of the damage done by those juries has been undone. The rest will also be eventually undone, too.

 

[Pensfan]

CNN and other news channels also documented the release on August 19, 2011. There have been countless newspaper articles and television news pieces that have also documented this situation as the terrible miscarriage of justice that is was. My question is why, if for no other reason than to counter the numerous shows chronicling this case as a miscarriage of justice (which it truly was), has no producer or director come forward to present the case as if the WMFree were guilty?

......because these men are not the center of everyone's universe.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

......because these men are not the center of everyone's universe.

Then, why were any shows done about this case? Obviously, there is public interest about this case or no television shows about it would have been made. So, not being the "center of everyone's universe" has not dissuaded many producers, etc. from making shows. Why have no shows been made from the standpoint of guilt instead of innocence?

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I was reading a post in another thread and thought it would give some people more information.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5958469&postcount=4"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WM3 are guilty- Evidence.[/ame]


I read Joseph's post and thought he really had a good theory on the case with credible documents to callahans site.

:rocker:

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Jo3eph is just a blogger with no known credibility. He's simply expressing his opinion, just like we do here. The State's expert, Lisa Sakevicius, stated under oath that there was no definitive link between the fibers found at the scene and the garments collected from Damien's and Jason's homes. I believe that ongoing testing of these fibers, using methods unavailable in 1993, will eventually provide much more definitive information on these fibers.

 

[I Must Break You]

I have often encountered the "read at Callahan's and you'll see that they're guilty" advice from non supporters. Why they would assume that I had not read the trial documents is beyond me. However, like claudicici said, two people can read the same documents and come to two different conclusions. Here's food for thought: Why has no one every made a documentary stating (or implying) that Damien, Jason and Jessie are guilty?

Back on topic, hopefully it won't be too much longer until we have the results from the further testing to discuss. IIRC, the fibers were being retested to see if the garments collected from the homes of Damien and Jason were actual matches or if those garments can be excluded. There is more testing ongoing, also. Unfortunately, the contents of Stevie's stomach (the green vegetable-like matter) was not properly stored and therefore cannot be tested again. However, I keep hearing that there is much more information from the testing that is forthcoming. I'm getting a bit impatient, but I can do nothing but wait. I'll post a link whenever it's made publicly available.

Ok to play Devils Advocate on that one particular point (and I've made it pretty abundantly clear where I stand on this case)... I hate to say a good bit of it is money. A "innocent" person wrongly accused plays much better than saying the justice system got it right. For every high profile case there is a wide contingent of people who proclaim the innocence of the accused (Amanda Knox, Troy Davis, Leonard Peltier, Assata Shakur, Mumia Abu-Jamal, etc.) regardless of how much evidence there is to their guilt. My personal opinion while looking extensively really only into the Knox and Peltier case I firmly believe they are both guilty as hell, but search anywhere on the net, even this very site, and you will see I'm at least vocally in the minority. As for WM3 well as big as the supporter movement is, I'd venture to say about 90% of the people over on the WM3.org wall know nothing about this case other than maybe what they saw in PL1 and PL2 (if even that) as we know when there is a cause, no matter what it is, there will be tons of people waiting in line to get behind it.... and the media will be waiting to jump onto to that if it means money or ratings.

 

[claudicici]

http://www.midsouthjustice.com/Home.htm
Has anyone read on this website? I just found this today.
I'm not buying the theory completely but a lot of it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[I Must Break You]

http://www.midsouthjustice.com/Home.htm
Has anyone read on this website? I just found this today.
I'm not buying the theory completely but a lot of it makes a lot of sense to me.

I read it awhile back and while the theory there is interesting and I've heard numerous variations on it before Hobbs as the lone perp came to the forefront (which I also have doubts about) I just think it seems a bit to out there to me. But anything is possible and it can't totally be discounted, nothing should be in this case I guess.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Ok to play Devils Advocate on that one particular point (and I've made it pretty abundantly clear where I stand on this case)... I hate to say a good bit of it is money. A "innocent" person wrongly accused plays much better than saying the justice system got it right. For every high profile case there is a wide contingent of people who proclaim the innocence of the accused (Amanda Knox, Troy Davis, Leonard Peltier, Assata Shakur, Mumia Abu-Jamal, etc.) regardless of how much evidence there is to their guilt. My personal opinion while looking extensively really only into the Knox and Peltier case I firmly believe they are both guilty as hell, but search anywhere on the net, even this very site, and you will see I'm at least vocally in the minority. As for WM3 well as big as the supporter movement is, I'd venture to say about 90% of the people over on the WM3.org wall know nothing about this case other than maybe what they saw in PL1 and PL2 (if even that) as we know when there is a cause, no matter what it is, there will be tons of people waiting in line to get behind it.... and the media will be waiting to jump onto to that if it means money or ratings.

My husband loves to watch true crime shows on television like those on the Biography channel, truTV or ID television. My observation is that most of those shows come down on the side of guilt. So, it's not just money or the emotional appeal IMO that limits the television reporting on this case to the side of innocence. I think that they will get their money and ratings on shows about vicious killers that are caught and imprisoned, too.

 

[Cappuccino]

That's also my observation, I watch alot of them too. Most of them are made from the angle of cops/FBI as the heroes tracking down a dangerous criminal, and that doesn't seem to do their ratings any harm.

Besides, if ratings were all they were worried about a programme about Satanic ritual killing of children would pull in massive ratings. One of the highest ratings ever for a single programme was the episode of the Geraldo show about Satanism. It was one of the worst pieces of rubbish ever broadcast, but it was brilliant from a ratings point of view.

 

[Boytwnmom]

I'm still dumbstruck by the Casey Anthony case. Works both ways. I taped the Paradise Lost documentaries and, sadly, am still working my way through the first in my spare time. But, what a product of the time that trial was. Reminiscent of the crazy child sex abuse cases where children, with assistance, "remembered" orgies and animal sacrifices etc that couldn't have actually happened.

Watching Damien testify and be interviewed back then it was so clear that his prosecution was based on his persona and the fact that he was a different kid with a name from a horror movie who read about witchcraft and all kinds of odd things. I think the prosecutors actually believed he was some kind of devil conjurer. Some of the questions he was asked were so out there it would have almost been comical if it wasn't so serious. What I find amazing is that they won't just admit what happened. But it's common-the state never wants to admit their fallibility as they are afraid of undermining confidence in the system. of course, failing to admit errors undermines confidence in a much more deleterious way than an admission of fallibility ever could.

CNN and other news channels also documented the release on August 19, 2011. There have been countless newspaper articles and television news pieces that have also documented this situation as the terrible miscarriage of justice that is was. My question is why, if for no other reason than to counter the numerous shows chronicling this case as a miscarriage of justice (which it truly was), has no producer or director come forward to present the case as if the WMFree were guilty?

Juries can be wrong. That's why we have an appeals process in this country. In this case, two juries got it wrong. Thankfully, some of the damage done by those juries has been undone. The rest will also be eventually undone, too.

 

[I Must Break You]

That's also my observation, I watch alot of them too. Most of them are made from the angle of cops/FBI as the heroes tracking down a dangerous criminal, and that doesn't seem to do their ratings any harm.

Besides, if ratings were all they were worried about a programme about Satanic ritual killing of children would pull in massive ratings. One of the highest ratings ever for a single programme was the episode of the Geraldo show about Satanism. It was one of the worst pieces of rubbish ever broadcast, but it was brilliant from a ratings point of view.

Yes, but for the most part unless it involves a serial killer or something extremely high profile those cases are one and one so to speak... how much longer do the wrongfully accused ones hang around? I'd venture to say there is much much much more money to be wrung out of that type of case (in fact that's not really even venturing). How long would this case have remained in the public conscience if the three were believed to be guilty? I'd say not long, maybe it would have gotten the one episode 48 hours treatment that thousands upon thousands of other cases have and that woulda been it. You or I and just about anybody else on the face of the earth wouldn't know Damien Echols name.

 

[Cappuccino]

All true, but it doesn't really explain why nobody has done a documentary from the prosecution point of view. All these shows like True Crime, 48 hours, etc, they don't need any given case to stay famous for years, they've got thousands of cases out there they can cover.

 

[I Must Break You]

What I'm getting at here is this case in particular has the notoriety it does because most people believe just was not served. It's spawned 2 and soon a 3rd widely popular feature length documentaries, a supporter movement that has donated millions to the cause, celebrities, and quite a few true crime or news show specials. Do you honestly believe it would have got that much attention is the three appeared guilty? Do you honestly believe the media as a collective care whether the three are guilty or innocent? I'd say no and no (It's ratings baby, and 3 movies, a whole movement and specials sure beats one forgotten episode played on ID at 2 am)

 

[I Must Break You]

All true, but it doesn't really explain why nobody has done a documentary from the prosecution point of view. All these shows like True Crime, 48 hours, etc, they don't need any given case to stay famous for years, they've got thousands of cases out there they can cover.

It surely does, it will be more popular and draw more attention if it portrays three young men wronged as opposed to three young men being exactly where they belong.

 

[Cappuccino]

I agree with all that, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't explain why nobody during 18 years has ever done a documentary claiming them to be guilty. Don't tell me the producers of ALL these true crime shows are in conspiracy to make the wm3 supporters movement lucrative, lol.

And I have a feeling that if someone made the one and only documentary to ever claim the wm3 dunnit, it would get alot more attention than a forgotten episode played at 2am.

It surely does, it will be more popular and draw more attention if it portrays three young men wronged as opposed to three young men being exactly where they belong.

As the Geraldo show demonstrates, it would be popular and gain attention if it portrayed three teenage Satanists sacrificing children to the devil...well, maybe not so much now, but back in the day it would have.