NH NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #3

[SillyGoose01234]

They were called the Casa Del Rey Apartments in 1973 when they opened. And yes, it's in Ingleside where Terry noted he was living. The phone number is exactly the same as it was in 1973 as is the address. Based solely on the information Terry provided his family in December of 1974, this is where he lived.

Which brings up a rather compelling and strange question. How did his family remember this specific apartment complex considering they were thousands of miles away? I couldn't tell you the names of the apartment complexes I even lived in. It's a rather strange piece of information to remember that is so pinpointed. Perhaps they had it written down and stored away for safekeeping.

Possibly they did. I can't remember the names of the apartments I've lived in either. Strange.

But to help me improve my sleuthing skills, how did you track this down? Did you look up the numbers of all the apartments in Ingelside and track them back? How? I'm curious. I spent a long time looking for them.


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[carbuff]

I have to agree the fact he wasn't at the court house when the divorce was finalized could be for a number of reasons. I would assume with 4 kids some type of financial arrangement would of been an option. In fact I'd be surprised if it wasn't on the table.

He seems to have gone by the name Terry for all of his life up until 78 the year his divorce was finalized. Maybe he felt he could get back together with his wife like back in 1973 ~ when they had separated once before. In 74 they apparently weren't together and he shows up at the house she and the kids were living at. Sounds like the visit also at this time may have been non-eventful.

I wonder if there were any other arrests under his name of Terry R. .

He wouldn't necessarily have had to show up in person for a divorce. Often it's a matter of signing and returning paperwork if the financial and child custody arrangements are uncontested. We'd have to know the details of what happened and why, and what the laws of the state they divorced in were in the late 1970's. In those days, you generally had to have legal cause to justify the divorce. Abandonment was one of them. If they didn't have a cause and just wanted to end it, he might have moved just to give her the grounds to say "He abandoned us." Or, as several people have suggested, he might have skipped to avoid paying alimony and child support. Since he seems to have made a habit of skipping town when things got difficult, I'm inclined to think that's more likely. But you never know.

 

[Alleykins]

He wouldn't necessarily have had to show up in person for a divorce. Often it's a matter of signing and returning paperwork if the financial and child custody arrangements are uncontested. We'd have to know the details of what happened and why, and what the laws of the state they divorced in were in the late 1970's. In those days, you generally had to have legal cause to justify the divorce. Abandonment was one of them. If they didn't have a cause and just wanted to end it, he might have moved just to give her the grounds to say "He abandoned us." Or, as several people have suggested, he might have skipped to avoid paying alimony and child support. Since he seems to have made a habit of skipping town when things got difficult, I'm inclined to think that's more likely. But you never know.

When I got divorced, I didn't bother showing up. We had no kids, no assets, and it was uncontested, so I didn't waste my time. I don't even remember if I had to sign anything once the papers were served. A couple weeks later, I got an official letter in the mail stating I was now divorced. There, done.

 

[kemo]

I've gone over this case. The big question is who were the people in the barrels?

The woman appears to have been a single mother with two daughters who was local to the Manchester area. She must have set up housekeeping with Rasmussen/Evans sometime after he arrived in NH in 1978. They were probably together in 5/80 when he said he had a wife named Elizabeth when he was arrested. At some point he obtained "procession" of his young daughter, he may have arrived with her in tow but the isotope tests suggest it was later.

We know nothing about this child: her name, where she is from and what happened to her mother. These are another part of the mystery that might take longer to solve.

When he was arrested in 10/80, he reported no wife. Did the relationship end during this period?

I think it is very likely that he was living with them all when the "event" that resulted in four deaths occurred. Had "Elizabeth" taken her two children and moved out (or given Rasmussen/Evans the boot), his daughter would have almost certainly stayed with him. This would tend to create a separation between any problems he may have had with Elizabeth and his own child. Furthermore, if he had his daughter on his own and he was in a relationship with Denise, the child's disappearance would have raised all kinds of questions with Denise. I think he killed them before he moved in with her ( which was probably Spring 1981).

That raises the question: why did he stick around Manchester? You would expect someone with no ties to an area, using a fake identity with so little income he was reduced to "stealing electricity" (most likely after his power was cut off) would just get out of Dodge after committing a quadruple homicide. He didn't. He and Denise stuck around another year or so.

A bigger question is why didn't someone report a local woman with two children missing? Didn't she have family, friends or neighbors? What about the father(s) of her children?

I suppose in some circles, enough people have very good reason to take off and you would be doing them no favors to report to the police they are missing.

Now, 38 years later, it is very different. The bodies in the barrel case are big news in Southern NH, the FBI has been knocking on doors. There should be plenty of people who are still alive and still in the area that must have been aware of their "sudden departure"; friends, neighbors, parents of the older child's playmates etc. It just isn't and wasn't that big a town.

I'm wondering if she wan't local and Rasmussen/Evans was confident that no one knew her well enough to report her missing. The isotope map shows she could have lived in a large part of the US.

Identifying Rasmussen seemed like the big problem but he was identified by his children who read about the story from 2500 miles away. This story must have reached all of the US and Canada by now so eventually someone must come forward with information on a missing woman with two children or, perhaps just one child.

 

[Gardener1850]

My theory about the woman and two children in the barrel is IF they are both her children, she may have left home as a teenager and her family never filed a missing report.
She could be either a runaway who got pregnant soon after leaving home or a teen who got pregnant and was kicked out by her parents. Maybe she moved around a lot as a struggling single mother and maybe she didn't have long time friends or neighbors that would miss her. Maybe when she met up with Terry she quit her job and told coworkers/neighbors that she was moving to be with her new boyfriend. No one would question why they didn't see her again after that. She could have moved in with him and his daughter and then killed only a few months later. The children (or at least the older girl) should have been missed by the school but not if their mom told the school she was moving to another town. They might have moved in the summer and been killed before they were ever enrolled in a new school. Maybe Terry didn't feel the urgency to leave town right away because he knew that no one was looking for her or her children. Or he gave stories that were believable to anyone who came asking about them-- that they went to visit her family, etc. My theory is that he kept them in the Hayward Street house basement for a time (LE found disturbed dirt floor), then moved them in the barrels to the park, later, in preparation for leaving town with Denise. He might have even used her bank cards and cleaned out her account if she had anything. I'm basing this on what he did with Eunsoon Jun-- He isolated her from her friends and family, He hid her in the barn then used her credit cards. If Eunsoon's friend had not pushed for the police to look into where she was he might have eventually moved on to another location and picked up a new identity. But Eunsoon had a job, family and close friends and with the technology of 2002 where everyone was now able to be connected all the time via email or cell phone, people in her life became suspicious and didn't buy his stories. JMO. :moo:

In thinking about trying to ID the woman in the barrel, I wonder if police have looked into women who have outstanding debt in collections but have been MIA since around 1980. What would happen if someone ran up a debt in 1980, then disappeared? Would LE have such a database of people with unpaid debts? (Just to be clear, I'm presuming that Terry ran up the debt, not the woman).

 

[Alleykins]

My speculation about the woman and two related children fall along the same lines as yours, Gardner.
I think Terry met her somewhere between TX and NH, possibly where ever his daughter was from, and brought all four of them to NH. I'm basing this on the isotopes, which I recall indicated the women & the two girls were in a more northern climate than NH, 3-7 months before they died. I believe that area may correspond to the middle child's isotope area. I haven't been able to get confirmation that the two locations are the same, but the time frame matches the middle child coming to be with them 2 wks to 3 months before she died.
I also believe TR concocted a believable story to tell either the family of the woman or the middle child's maternal family (or both) as to where they were/went, etc., like he did Jun's family. Unfortunately, it appears that those two families may have believed him, where Jun's doesn't appear to have

 

[Aleph]

I wonder if he also killed the mother of his daughter that was found in the barrel. Otherwise, wouldn't that mother be looking for her baby? Maybe the mother's body is elsewhere in the region indicated by the isotopes found on the deceased daughter.


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[Alleykins]

I wonder if he also killed the mother of his daughter that was found in the barrel. Otherwise, wouldn't that mother be looking for her baby? Maybe the mother's body is elsewhere in the region indicated by the isotopes found on the deceased daughter.
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Here's my take on the middle child's mother, I posted something similar about this on the Allenstown thread awhile back.
She may be alive and incarcerated and not able to look for her daughter
She may have died of natural, non-suspicious causes, either before her daughter came to be in TR's custody or any time after.
She may have been intellectually challenged, and he talked her into giving him custody. She could be alive and well in this scenario and just oblivious.
She may be missing and not reported missing
She may be a Jane Doe with no identifiers in the system, or not in the system at all.
She may be an unsolved homicide case but not a Jane Doe.
She could be alive and well, gave TR custody, and just doesn't care where her child is. This is my least favorite option. No one wants to think someone could be so heartless as to want nothing to do with their own child, but I've met a rare few, to my dismay, who walked away from their children and didn't look back. Sad, but true.
These are just a few possibilities.

 

[Piknik]

I've gone over this case. The big question is who were the people in the barrels?

The woman appears to have been a single mother with two daughters who was local to the Manchester area. She must have set up housekeeping with Rasmussen/Evans sometime after he arrived in NH in 1978.

Good post. The one thing we have to be cautious of is stating he arrived in NH in 1978. That isn't confirmed.

 

[kemo]

Good post. The one thing we have to be cautious of is stating he arrived in NH in 1978. That isn't confirmed.

Piknik,

You are right. The 1978 date was always qualified with (approx). It definitely opens the possibility that he made stop after leaving the Houston area before arriving in NH.

Perhaps you can verify or correct my memory on another "factoid" that I haven't been able to track down with some googling:

Rasmussen/Evan's link to Bear Brook was, as recall, that his supervisor at Waumbec owned, or had some ties, to the Bear Brook store and Rasmussen/Evans did some electrical work there. In addition, the barrels used are believed to have come from the Waumbec mill and the cable used on the victims was made or sold by the company Denise worked for.

Is the above correct and are there any dates connected to it?

There seems to have been a chain of events that occurred over a very short time period and, if Rasmussen/Evans arrived in NH in 1979, it tightens the timeline even more.

 

[Alleykins]

Piknik,

You are right. The 1978 date was always qualified with (approx). It definitely opens the possibility that he made stop after leaving the Houston area before arriving in NH.

Perhaps you can verify or correct my memory on another "factoid" that I haven't been able to track down with some googling:

Rasmussen/Evan's link to Bear Brook was, as recall, that his supervisor at Waumbec owned, or had some ties, to the Bear Brook store and Rasmussen/Evans did some electrical work there. In addition, the barrels used are believed to have come from the Waumbec mill and the cable used on the victims was made or sold by the company Denise worked for.

Is the above correct and are there any dates connected to it?

There seems to have been a chain of events that occurred over a very short time period and, if Rasmussen/Evans arrived in NH in 1979, it tightens the timeline even more.

(RBBM for clarity)
I think some of that info came from the Jan 2017 press conference. You can find the raw footage on Youtube.

 

[carbuff]

(RBBM for clarity)
I think some of that info came from the Jan 2017 press conference. You can find the raw footage on Youtube.

The slides for that are on the NH DOJ website, also. Pointer is in the media thread.

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[Legally Bland]

The slides for that are on the NH DOJ website, also. Pointer is in the media thread.

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Quick link. Pg 23.

https://www.doj.nh.gov/media-center...ts/20170126-allenstown-suspect-identified.pdf

 

[Piknik]

Bump for the new sleuthers.

Updated Timeline:

1943-1978
Terry Peder Rasmussen
DOB: December 23 1943
Family:
Wife-

• Married- July 20 1968
• Separated- 1972 and again in 1973
• Divorced- (without Terry's whereabouts known) September 28, 1978.

Children-

• Twin daughters- 1969
• Son- 1970
• daughter- 1972

Resided/employed:

• 1943(Born)- ? - Denver, Colorado
• Jul 1958–Apr 1961- Phoenix, AZ
• Apr 1961-Jul 1967 - In the Navy (known places: Okinawa, Japan and Western US)
• 1967-1968 - Hawaii (married wife on July 20, 1968)
• 1969 - Phoenix, AZ
• 1970-Redwood City, CA (employed in Palo Alto, CA )
• 1973- Phoenix, AZ
• Dec 1974- Ingleside, TX. (living at the Casa Del Rey Apartments)
• 1975-1977 - Circumstantially Texas
• Jun 1978- Houston, TX (left “Brown & Root” Company for other employment)

after Jun 1978/1979-1981
Robert "Bob" T./C. Evans
Location: Manchester, Hillsbourgh County, NH
Residence: 925 Hayward St.
Employment:
Waumbec Mill, Commericial St, Manchester, NH
Bear Brooks State Park, Deerfield Rd, Allenstown, NH

1982-1983
Whereabouts unknown


1984-1985
Curtis Mayo Kimball
Location: Los Alamito, Cypress, (some list Anaheim), all in Orange County, CA
Employment:
Electric company in Los Alamito, CA in March 1984

1985
UNKNOWN ALIAS
Location: Felton, Santa Cruz County, CA

1986
Gordon Curtis Jenson/Jensen
Location: Scotts Valley, Santa Cruz County, CA
Residence: Holiday Host RV Park
Employment:
Holiday Host RV Park, Scotts Valley, CA

1987
UNKNOWN ALIAS
Location: Unknown, possibly CA or Preston, Franklin County, ID

1988-1990
Gerald "Gerry" Mockerman
Location: San Luis Obispo, San Luis Obispo County, CA

October 1990-Dec 2010
Lawrence William Vanner
Location: San Pablo, Contra Costa County, CA
Resided:

• 1990-Jul 2001 - 1852 Rumrill Blvd, San Pablo, CA
• 2000-Nov 2002 - 6217 Bernhard Ave, Richmond, CA

 

[Piknik]

Another item that we should dig deeper into is the truck he had in the 1980's that was registered to a motel room in Texas. This would indicate another possible timeframe he was in Texas. Possibly in the years 82/83.

 

[carbuff]

Here's my take on the middle child's mother, I posted something similar about this on the Allenstown thread awhile back.
She may be alive and incarcerated and not able to look for her daughter
She may have died of natural, non-suspicious causes, either before her daughter came to be in TR's custody or any time after.
She may have been intellectually challenged, and he talked her into giving him custody. She could be alive and well in this scenario and just oblivious.
She may be missing and not reported missing
She may be a Jane Doe with no identifiers in the system, or not in the system at all.
She may be an unsolved homicide case but not a Jane Doe.
She could be alive and well, gave TR custody, and just doesn't care where her child is. This is my least favorite option. No one wants to think someone could be so heartless as to want nothing to do with their own child, but I've met a rare few, to my dismay, who walked away from their children and didn't look back. Sad, but true.
These are just a few possibilities.

This is a good list. A couple of things I would add:

Maybe she had a chronic illness that left her unable to care for her child, and possibly unable to look for her when time passed and she didn't see her again. That would include mental/emotional illness.

The child might have been taken from her care, not necessarily for cause, in such a way that she didn't expect to see it again. For instance, unwed teenagers were often not even asked if they wanted to give the baby up for adoption and never even saw it before it was placed with another family.

Or she may have voluntarily given her baby up for adoption, possibly by a family member. This would imply that RE and "Elizabeth" were legally married, or considered so by the family.

There's also the possibility that RE took the child without permission and the mother tried to find her, but got a cold shoulder from LE, who didn't often get involved in custodial abductions in the early 1980's. That was considered a family/civil matter, not a criminal one. In the days before computers and social media, it was easy to change your identity and hard to find somebody even if you had money and time.

In the late 1970's, times were very different and often when circumstances forced someone to give up a child, they were told it was for the child's good that the mother not try to see the child again. Many people believed this and behaved accordingly.

 

[Stephen2016]

Are there any arrests popping up under his name Terry ?
Would they have released that information if there was.
It appears he went for 35 years without anything criminally associated to him.

I'm of the belief the more insight one has the clearer the picture . In 1980 when arrested he probably was released on his “Own Recognizance” I'm only guessing but based on the information and characterization of Terry / Evans I would think there had to be more activity to his background . And in that background may be something on the mother of his bio-child. But with the information given possibly someone who knew him may come forward !

Some information I've been looking at regarding serial killers:
"....

• Some other interesting statistics that Aamodt determined:
  • The average serial killer has an IQ 94.7. Although various tests measure IQ, a score of 90 to 110 is usually considered "average" intelligence. A serial killer with average IQ is also the most likely to strangle or shoot their victims. Serial killers who have used bombs show, on average, higher IQs, while those who used poison exhibited the lowest.
  • For male serial killers, the average age they first killed at is 27.5, while for females it's a bit older at 31.
  • Overwhelmingly, serial killers haven't served in the military — only 23.9% did. The Army is the branch most likely to include serial killers, while the Coast Guard is the least likely.
  • 85.6% come from homes with at least one biological parent, though their family life was likely unstable. While 70% reported no abuse as children, many wet the bed, tortured animals, and started fires.
  • 40.5% kill for enjoyment, such as lust, thrill, or power, according to Aamodt...."

1.Aamodt's, link to full post :​

Aamodt's definition differs slightly from the FBI's

:moo:

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Another item that we should dig deeper into is the truck he had in the 1980's that was registered to a motel room in Texas. This would indicate another possible timeframe he was in Texas. Possibly in the years 82/83.

Completely agree,

IMO TR returned to Texas after NH, also believe he returned once again after abandoning Lisa in 1986 i.e. Telephone calls made to RV parks @ San Antonio. While he was residing at the RV Park in CA. If he went there again most likely was for a short period of time as that in 87/88 he was in Idaho and returned to CA with a stolen vehicle.

TR was driving a VW van while in NH, the next time he resurfaced was in 1986 driving a Dodge truck with TX license plates registered to the motel in TX. One item that has yet to be stated was where in TX was the truck registered and how TR come to acquire the truck, was it stolen, purchased, traded etc...

There was no mention of what vehicle he was driving when he was with EJ.

Another area that has not been tapped on much is where did TR go between his release from prison and the skipped probation, till the time he resurfaced as Vanner with EJ ... It is a large gap of time and it is scary to think what he may have done during this period .. He may have preyed upon more women and children that has yet to be connected to him. TR was not one to be without a female companion for any extended period of time.

All thou vehicle info may seem useless to some, ya never know someone may connect TR with the vehicle he drove.


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[kemo]

I've been going over basic Forensic Isotope Analysis to get some idea what the conclusions about the geographic histories of the Bear Brook Four are all about.

In a nut shell, the the tap water in different cities and towns have different ratios of two isotopes of oxygen and these ratios which are determined by local geology and distance from the ocean, will remain pretty much the same in any given water system, from year to year. This is called the O2 16/18 ratio.

The O2 16/18 ratio in human tissue reflects the ratio is the water they drink, normally from the tap. Most tissues regenerates gradually over time so the ratios would gradually change if a subject moved and a reading would be worthless. Two types of human tissue that does not change over time are tooth enamel,which is fixed during the first few years of life and hair, which will will reflect the O2 16/18 ratio of the local water at the time it emerges from the follicle and remain fixed at that point as the hair grows. Since hair grows approx 6" a year, a 12" hair would provide a two year linear record of the isotope environments the subject was exposed to.

Apparently the maps that we have seen are based on isotope studies of the local water in 65 different US cities. I don't know if the same information is available for Canada.

If a subject drank mostly Bottled Water, not of local origin, ate other than a "typical" mix of food, or drank well water or water from isolated sources, their ratio may not correlate to the area they live. Overall, it is pretty accurate in narrowing down where someone spent their infancy and, depending on hair length, where they spent the last months or years of their lives.

One obvious limitation of this method is that some O2 16/18 ratios are fairly common. The woman and the two related children appear to have spent their infancies and the last year or so in an area that had a ratio consistent with the Manchester NH area but there are many places they could have lived with a fairly dense population.

The biological child of Rasmussen/Evans came from a far more limited area with a much lower population. We do know that that child only moved to an area with a O2 16/18 ratio like that of Manchester, in the 3 to 4 months prior to her death.

There are other elements that have isotope ratios that can be used forensically but the science is less developed. Some of these may have been used but they have not been publicized.

Attempting to locate missing mothers with children from the geographic limits of their O2 16/18 ratios is pretty much a needle in a haystack situation with one haystack being especially big. What we can probably assume is that the middle child spent her entire life in one area until she moved to NH in the months before her death and the other every likely did as well. (It seems unlikely that a nomadic existence would be limited to one O2 ratio area).
I do not believe Rasmussen/Evans would have transported four bodies a long distance so I think it is very likely that all of them were living together in the Manchester area in the 3 or 4 month period before their deaths.




Texas however, where Rasmussen/Evans is believed to have lived before he moved to NH is not one of them.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, it puzzles me how much connection he has to Texas when the victims including his daughter don't. I can think of reasons but it's weird.