NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[SN00PY]

Not sure if this has been posted ...

Petitioning Special Agent in Charge FEDERAL BUREAU of INVESTIGATION

FBI called for in the Maura Murray Missing Person Case

https://www.change.org/p/federal-bu...d-for-in-the-maura-murray-missing-person-case

 

[Tarik]

I don't think it was posted but I wasn't surprised when I saw that the petition was initiated by John Smith. I believe he hinted many times on the podcast that he was trying to get the FBI involved in this case.

 

[Murkywaters]

Not sure if this has been posted ...

Petitioning Special Agent in Charge FEDERAL BUREAU of INVESTIGATION

FBI called for in the Maura Murray Missing Person Case

https://www.change.org/p/federal-bu...d-for-in-the-maura-murray-missing-person-case

From what i call recall, the FBI joined the investigation ten days after Maura went missing, and lent assistance in the past. I guess they have reasons not to take up the case, however if Maura did voluntary disappear and run off into Canada, does the FBI have to get involved? I know the FBI does get involved in cases that cross state lines, but i think that might only cases where they are taken against their will.

 

[Fireweed]

From what i call recall, the FBI joined the investigation ten days after Maura went missing, and lent assistance in the past. I guess they have reasons not to take up the case, however if Maura did voluntary disappear and run off into Canada, does the FBI have to get involved? I know the FBI does get involved in cases that cross state lines, but i think that might only cases where they are taken against their will.

If she left on her own they wouldn't be involved. To me it would be strange for them to be involved in this case since it involves a missing adult and there is no evidence that she was abducted or taken across state lines.

 

[Ava Adore]

I thought the NH police didn't want their involvement, so they left?

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[Caffeine]

I think NH never got the FBI thoroughly involved is due to either:

1) They strongly believe she left voluntarily

2) They believe she committed suicide

3) They have a viable suspect, but virtually nothing to link them to the crime and feel there is no possible evidence to be had, short of a full confession, to go forward with.

Honestly, without a body and credible sightings or any trace of her...only #3 would make sense to me at this point.

 

[Fireweed]

I think NH never got the FBI thoroughly involved is due to either:

1) They strongly believe she left voluntarily

2) They believe she committed suicide

3) They have a viable suspect, but virtually nothing to link them to the crime and feel there is no possible evidence to be had, short of a full confession, to go forward with.

Honestly, without a body and credible sightings or any trace of her...only #3 would make sense to me at this point.

I think essentially this all boils down to Maura being an adult and there being no evidence that anyone crossed state lines with her in the commission of a crime.

 

[Caffeine]

One would think after traveling to Canada to explore leads, that if they perhaps found a lead they would fully investigate, but regardless there was no clear sign of Maura.

With that said, I could do the same thing in Quebec, Toronto, Arkansas or wherever and at least get a few people who "swear" they just saw her. People's recollection is not always perfect and this approach is a decidedly difficult way to find a needle in a haystack, so to speak.

I equate this with chasing a ghost. People swear they see her, but nothing pans out. But hey, without a body or any trace of her it's easy to make an argument for just about any scenario. Certainly no one's found her yet, but it's tough to base a full scale search on anonymous comments and expect results.

So in the end she's either the most elusive escapee ever or this is a dead end.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

It's still strange to me that these people who claim to be investigating have not actually taken trips off into the woods within walking distance of the accident site. Well, if they have, they have not posted pictures of it or anything.

Setting aside the possibility of foul play for a moment, as a potential killer could have conceivably taken Maura anywhere, what are the options? Most likely, she died of exposure while drunk and hiding out from the cops. The logical thing to do would have been to go about 10 miles east on 112 from the accident, cut through the woods until you reach the Wild Ammoonosuc, and follow it back down to the intersection where the dogs lost her scent, methodically walking back and forth from bank to pavement in a rough grid.

But, for the sake of argument, if she's living a quiet life in Sherbrooke, it would make the most sense to use what we know about Maura's self-medicating behaviors and canvas all take-away food places that offer delivery, specifically talking to drivers. If she's still battling her eating disorder (which may well be the case, since disappearing of her own volition rather than facing the consequences of an addiction suggests Maura wasn't in recovery and, judging from the lack of contact with her family, probably wouldn't be now), and given that bulimia especially is characterized by ritual, then she probably still orders out to satisfy her binge/purge cycle. Ergo, someone would have come into contact with her, and on the regular, too.

If one of these scenarios is accurate, then this disappearance should be easily solvable. However, it'll take work, the likes of which is anathema to the romantic lens through which many view it (unfortunately).

 

[Ricochet]

But, for the sake of argument, if she's living a quiet life in Sherbrooke, it would make the most sense to use what we know about Maura's self-medicating behaviors and canvas all take-away food places that offer delivery, specifically talking to drivers. If she's still battling her eating disorder (which may well be the case, since disappearing of her own volition rather than facing the consequences of an addiction suggests Maura wasn't in recovery and, judging from the lack of contact with her family, probably wouldn't be now), and given that bulimia especially is characterized by ritual, then she probably still orders out to satisfy her binge/purge cycle. Ergo, someone would have come into contact with her, and on the regular, too.

Has anyone actually confirmed / verified for a fact that Maura had an eating disorder or bulimia or are these assumptions people who don't know Maura make? The best I can gather is these are assumptions people make off the receipts from the food purchases with the fraudulent credit card. If that's the case how do know there wasn't a minimum dollar amount required for delivery, and why get 1 of anything when you can get 2 (eat one later). It's not her credit card that she's using.

What self-medicating behaviors? Drinking? I think it would be out of the norm for a college student to use a credit card fraudulently. I don't think it's out of the norm for a college student to drink a lot of alcohol. I drank a lot from the age of about 16 - 26 because I liked it and that's what my peers did. That doesn't mean I drank a lot at 31 or that I was self medicating from 16 - 26. It might just mean she's a college student, like a lot of other college students who like to drink alcohol. She purchased a lot of alcohol the night she disappeared but we don't know for certain where she was going and we don't know for certain whether or not she was meeting someone.

My personal belief is she most likely died from exposure, and I believe she had much longer than 7 - 10 minutes to leave the scene. The accident occurred at 7:27 PM and Cecil Smith didn't arrive on the scene until 7:46. The first thing he did was look over the scene of the accident and speak to a witness. I think it's reasonable that would've taken longer than 14 minutes which would put the time at 8:00 PM at the earliest and most likely would've been a little after 8:00 PM. Cecil did a road search with the assistance of fire/ems and they departed the scene before 9:00 PM. I think it's reasonable to assume the search consisted of nothing more than driving up and down the roadway. According to the police report the road conditions were normal and dry so she could've made good time on foot. It's doubtful Faith Westman kept her eye on the accident the entire time from 7:27 PM to 7:46 PM. Maura wasn't declared a missing person until Tuesday afternoon, and a search wasn't done until Wednesday. I think Maura would've had at least a half hour before Cecil Smith conducted a search and the search he did conduct was most likely minimal at best. I can't think of any reason why Cecil Smith with the information he had at the time of the accident would assume she ran off into the woods.

 

[Ava Adore]

Ahh, found it.

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2013/07/confirmed-maura-suffered-from-bulimia.html?m=1

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[Tarik]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the "running away to Canada" theory is just a convenient theory with very little substance to it that someone put out there to try and give a plausible explanation for Maura's disappearance. It's convenient because Canada happens to be "close" to where she went missing. You see these things all the time. If someone goes missing in Arizona, California or Texas, some people will claim they ran away to Mexico because it's convenient due to the area where the person was last seen. The fact of the matter is, given the state in which the US was back in 2004 (3 years after 9/11), there is absolutely no way in my mind that she could have crossed the border unnoticed. Also, the Canadian border is about 90 miles or 2 hour drive from the spot where Maura went missing. The closest border crossing is at Lac-Wallace in Québec. Unless Maura had incredible acting skills, a detailed premeditated plan and Oscar-award worthy preparations, she couldn't have disappeared in the woods and then driven with someone all the way up to Canada without being caught or seen by anyone even at night. And if she was smuggled to Canada, the border patrol would have noticed something suspicious. I live in Canada about 2 hours from the US border and trust me both the US and Canadian border agents are pretty strict about who they let in, especially in Canada. Whenever I go to the US and back home in Canada, even as a Canadian Citizen, my car gets thoroughly inspected and processed at the border. I don't think this was any different in 2004, if anything they were even more strict about who they let in. So yeah, all in all, it doesn't seem at all feasable to me that she ran away to Canada where she's been hiding for 12 years.

 

[Fireweed]

As a recovering alcoholic who was just getting into it when I was Maura's age, I think Maura was in the beginning stages of alcoholism. A lot of college students drink, but what I see in Maura's actions was not just drinking. What I see is that drinking had become a priority in her life. She has $280 and she spends $40 on booze. The last thing she does before she leaves town is stop at a liquor store. She is drinking wine while driving out of a coke bottle. We also have no solid evidence she was meeting anyone; she bought all that booze alone so she could drink it alone. She buys it at 4 pm in Amherst because she wants to make sure she has a "road soda" and also because likely she is worried that she won't know where a liquor store is at her destination, or that it might be closed. Look, I have done all these things. My friends who weren't alcoholics did not do these things.

 

[Caffeine]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the "running away to Canada" theory is just a convenient theory with very little substance to it that someone put out there to try and give a plausible explanation for Maura's disappearance. It's convenient because Canada happens to be "close" to where she went missing. You see these things all the time. If someone goes missing in Arizona, California or Texas, some people will claim they ran away to Mexico because it's convenient due to the area where the person was last seen. The fact of the matter is, given the state in which the US was back in 2004 (3 years after 9/11), there is absolutely no way in my mind that she could have crossed the border unnoticed. Also, the Canadian border is about 90 miles or 2 hour drive from the spot where Maura went missing. The closest border crossing is at Lac-Wallace in Québec. Unless Maura had incredible acting skills, a detailed premeditated plan and Oscar-award worthy preparations, she couldn't have disappeared in the woods and then driven with someone all the way up to Canada without being caught or seen by anyone even at night. And if she was smuggled to Canada, the border patrol would have noticed something suspicious. I live in Canada about 2 hours from the US border and trust me both the US and Canadian border agents are pretty strict about who they let in, especially in Canada. Whenever I go to the US and back home in Canada, even as a Canadian Citizen, my car gets thoroughly inspected and processed at the border. I don't think this was any different in 2004, if anything they were even more strict about who they let in. So yeah, all in all, it doesn't seem at all feasable to me that she ran away to Canada where she's been hiding for 12 years.

Even if she did run away to Canada, if she was smart enough to elude detection for all these years, she'd likely be way over in Vancouver at this point with all the Quebec speculation.

It is a convenient theory for sure, and enough to string people along that there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

People get so caught up in probability, chance and how unlikely a random murder would be, but it has been happening since the beginning of time, often inexplicably and for no good reason. Until something else comes along, I'm sticking with some sort of foul play scenario, be it a friend or stranger.

When people go missing for this long, it can absolutely be a result of their own free will, but conversely we will read much more frequently that it is a result of someone else's actions, imo.

 

[Tarik]

Even if she did run away to Canada, if she was smart enough to elude detection for all these years, she'd likely be way over in Vancouver at this point with all the Quebec speculation.

It is a convenient theory for sure, and enough to string people along that there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

People get so caught up in probability, chance and how unlikely a random murder would be, but it has been happening since the beginning of time, often inexplicably and for no good reason. Until something else comes along, I'm sticking with some sort of foul play scenario, be it a friend or stranger.

When people go missing for this long, it can absolutely be a result of their own free will, but conversely we will read much more frequently that it is a result of someone else's actions, imo.

People are free to believe what they want, my point was rather that the running away to Canada theory is too convenient and too far-fetched for it to be even discussed so seriously after all these years. I know what I know and you don't just come into Canada freely without going through a thorough inspection at the border. And if you don't have a clear reason for coming in or if you're hesitant then they won't let you in.

 

[Fireweed]

I know that LE has often been accused of bungling this case, and I agree that they could have done a better job, but no one in LE believes that Maura is in Canada. I think they checked with Canadian border police and also calculated how likely it is to "sneak" across the border and concluded that Maura did not cross into Canada.

 

[kfed83]

As a recovering alcoholic who was just getting into it when I was Maura's age, I think Maura was in the beginning stages of alcoholism. A lot of college students drink, but what I see in Maura's actions was not just drinking. What I see is that drinking had become a priority in her life. She has $280 and she spends $40 on booze. The last thing she does before she leaves town is stop at a liquor store. She is drinking wine while driving out of a coke bottle. We also have no solid evidence she was meeting anyone; she bought all that booze alone so she could drink it alone. She buys it at 4 pm in Amherst because she wants to make sure she has a "road soda" and also because likely she is worried that she won't know where a liquor store is at her destination, or that it might be closed. Look, I have done all these things. My friends who weren't alcoholics did not do these things.

Totally agree - I have experience with it as well. I think all of the rumors of bulimia are just that, rumors and hearsay. However there is very good evidence in her actions that point towards alcohol abuse. Hard to say if it rises to the level of alcoholism or not without more information, but most college students wouldn't be drinking wine alone on a road trip out to the mountains. Not to mention the two car accidents in a few days and other erratic behavior.

 

[Tarik]

I think you hit the nail on the head. A blog post is not evidence. A blog post saying something was "confirmed" by an unnamed source is not evidence. I've noticed that JR tends to categories a lot of things as being confirmed without any hard evidence to back it up, or at least enough information to let others judge the reliability on their own. Then even worse, others will simply point to a post of his and claim it as fact. He's by no means the only offender...I think the case is full of it and it just muddies the water.

I can see where you're going with this and I partially agree. I guess the right thing to do would be to use another term like "stated" rather than "confirmed" when talking about information from external sources. External sources can confirm something to a journalist but the journalist often times cannot directly confirm that to other people unless he has concrete proof for the information (pictures, court documents, audio recordings etc.). A discussion is not direct evidence, unfortunately. You can't confirm something that you can't explicitly show to people as credible proof. When it comes to blog posts, we have to go by what was said and assume that the "confirmation" from the third party/unnamed source was genuine and wait for a clear proof later down the road. Therefore, the people who take blog posts and claim it as proof or facts simply don't understand how evidence works.

 

[kfed83]

I can see where you're going with this and I partially agree. I guess the right thing to do would be to use another term like "stated" rather than "confirmed" when talking about information from external sources. External sources can confirm something to a journalist but the journalist often times cannot directly confirm that to other people unless he has concrete proof for the information (pictures, court documents, audio recordings etc.). A discussion is not direct evidence, unfortunately. You can't confirm something that you can't explicitly show to people as credible proof. When it comes to blog posts, we have to go by what was said and assume that the "confirmation" from the third party/unnamed source was genuine and wait for a clear proof later down the road. Therefore, the people who take blog posts and claim it as proof or facts simply don't understand how evidence works.

I guess part of it is also the credibility of who did the interview and is relaying what they learned. I'm much more inclined to believe a detective or credible journalist than someone that has a profit motive and a questionable history of going back and forth between theories and making bold claims.

 

[Tarik]

I guess part of it is also the credibility of who did the interview and is relaying what they learned. I'm much more inclined to believe a detective or credible journalist than someone that has a profit motive and a questionable history of going back and forth between theories and making bold claims.

Good point, I feel like JR has lost a lot of credibility over the years, has gotten on the wrong side of some key individuals in this case, has become too attached emotionally to the case and I'm probably not the only one who feels that way. As a journalist, you can't just be making bold claims all the time and always going back on what you said to correct your mistakes and end up apologizing. That's going to damage your reputation more than anything else. Also not calling the victim a sociopath and the father a liar would be a good start.