AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #2

[SuperTmo]

Indeed. Without a body, investigators must pursue a living person. However, investigators know that a missing female of any age in a random opportunity abduction is dead in less than 2 hours. The only hope that this child is alive is that she is with her father. That's the best case scenario. What is more likely is that this was a bizarre abduction by a young man dressed to play basketball who instead abducted a 5 year old next to a basketball court. Where I see a problem is that the abductor was dressed to fit in at the park while abducting a child from the playground.

I think most guys playing basketball are in basketball shorts and a T-shirt, not sweatpants. Lots of guys play here, even in the rain and wind and I can’t think of any I’ve seen in pants.

 

[Really?]

I haven’t posted much on this. But I think about Dulce constantly.
I took rt 55 south yesterday from rt 42 . As a passenger I saw so much wilderness of trees and dirt trails.
Where are you little girl?

 

[Eevee Pie]

Teaching “stranger danger” to kids isn’t really very helpful. Kids are expected to interact with strangers all the time, and expected to do so in an unquestioning manner. A 5 year old might interact with a substitute teacher, a librarian, a sports coach, a mail carrier, a firefighter, a nurse, a specialist physician, a crossing guard, a house cleaner, a janitor, their friends’ parents. How is a 5 year old supposed to determine which strangers are danger? And really any adult could outwit a kid that age and give them good reason to be led away.

I don’t think this missing child is gone because she wasn’t taught “stranger danger” - she is missing because an adult knew what to say to a tiny kid to make her think it’s allowed and expected.

 

[Eevee Pie]

I agree that it can happen really quickly and in the blink of an eye... Slightly OT but we had a case in a Supermarket chain store whereby a mum was food and grocery shopping with her children. As she did so, the children were playing in the food isles
Where she shopped, and she noticed one of her girls was no longer in the isle. Fortunately, before she even went looking around for her daughter, she sent the older daughter, a teenager, to immediately run and tell security , whilst she, mum, searched the food isles.
This Supermarket chains policy was ‘immediate lockdown ‘ and all exits/entrances were closed automatically and locked.
In these few short minutes, her daughter was thankfully located, however, she was in the restrooms in the company of two Eastern European women and they had already undressed her in no time and put her in boys clothes and hacked off her long hair to short and put a hat on her!!!
Unbelievable how quickly it all happened because if the ‘lockdown ‘ hadn’t occurred so quickly and immediately, the little girl would have been walked out of the store with the women and nobody would have given a second glance !

As far as I reckon, this story is an urban myth. Are snopes links allowed here?

Child Abduction from Theme Park Thwarted by Shoes

Not saying parents shouldn’t be vigilant but as many parents have shared right in this very thread, especially when caring for multiple children, it’s all too easy for them to unexpectedly get out of sight.

 

[SuperTmo]

This is a street view of the back of WalMart and it is the warehouse distribution area where there would be a need for men to load and unload merchandise. It is possible that a group of men had just come off a work shift or were waiting to start. Off to the right of the picture, if you use Google street, the homes are small and I guess could be considered shacks although they done look like that to me.
Google Maps

Walmart uses employees for unpacking trucks. It’s possible the men were day laborers hoping to pick up an odd job in the community. We have places in our town where they wait and everyone knows if you need someone wanting to do some work, go there.

The men in a group isn’t odd to me.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Mother's parents reportedly immigrated to US about 20 years ago. Which would mean mother is a US citizen (was born in US?) since she is 19. So presumably the child was conceived in US, not Mexico. Which mean we should be discussing statutory rape laws here in US, not Mexico, as Mexican laws would be irrelevant. Mother also didn't have custody of the girl, grandmother did.

"Alavez Perez’s parents — who have reversed last names, Norma Perez Alavez and Camilo Alavez Perez — emigrated from Mexico 20 years ago. The father works in a nursery, the mother in a food factory."

Mother of 5-year-old South Jersey girl apparently abducted in Bridgeton park grieves and waits

If indeed he hasn’t spoken with police, this could be one of his fears depending on his age which we haven’t heard.

 

[Alleykins]

Teaching “stranger danger” to kids isn’t really very helpful. Kids are expected to interact with strangers all the time, and expected to do so in an unquestioning manner. A 5 year old might interact with a substitute teacher, a librarian, a sports coach, a mail carrier, a firefighter, a nurse, a specialist physician, a crossing guard, a house cleaner, a janitor, their friends’ parents. How is a 5 year old supposed to determine which strangers are danger? And really any adult could outwit a kid that age and give them good reason to be led away.

I don’t think this missing child is gone because she wasn’t taught “stranger danger” - she is missing because an adult knew what to say to a tiny kid to make her think it’s allowed and expected.

BBM for focus
I read an article a long time ago about teaching kids stranger danger.
The author, a mom, taught her kids how to spot/be wary tricky people instead of teaching them not to talk to strangers. I though it was an interesting approach.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Rewards for information in the case now stand at $35,000 but there is no indication if they have generated useful tips.
Mystery deepens as search for Dulce Maria Alavez, missing N.J. 5-year-old, extends into 2nd week

 

[Stripehaven]

I’m from South Louisiana and we say “get down from the car”. Our area is primarily Cajun-French where many of us speak or understand French.

I’m a PNW native and lots of people here, including me, say “hop in the car” instead of “get in.” I hopped in the car and went to the store. I’m old, and it’s only been recently that I’ve realized what a funny visual that suggests.

I don’t read much into “odd” wordings, especially when people are under stress.

 

[zecats]

These are the two shacks I was talking about that needs searched.

PhillyGal, Saturday at 8:09 PMReport
#143

Hi to you all and locals to Bridgeton NJ. Just adding my 2 cents here to the discussion. Just hope I'm not rambling on.


Our family owns a home on the bay about 20 minutes from Bridgeton, NJ. I was in Bridgeton last week from Saturday through Tuesday 9/17 at our home. Just a few things that I felt were "different" that weekend I wanted to throw out there. I've been going to the bay area with my family for about 20 years and had felt a few things seemed different than usual. Someone mentioned to check the Bridgeton Walmart cameras from Sunday (awesome idea!). I was actually there shopping on Sunday and it was extremely crowded....so much so that I was thinking there must be a festival or something going on. I had never seen it so crowded! There has to be a lot of camera footage. After leaving, we drove back to the bay and passed by one of the agricultural fields. Across the street are shacks where the field workers stay short term. Anyways, you normally only see 2-3 men standing outside. There are only three shacks that house about 2 men. On Sunday, there had to have been at least two dozen men standing outside. That was the first time in 20 years I've seen that many men and thought it was highly unusual.


I'm just bringing this up, because it seemed the town was over crowded that weekend so maybe the perp was someone visiting?


Also, the signs for the zoo/playground area can clearly been seen from the road that runs through Bridgeton so it could have been an out of towner who noticed the sign while casing the area.


Thanks for reading.

She's talking about 2 different areas here. Walmart was crowded and then when she was driving to her home on the Delaware Bay (this would be after leaving Bridgeton and heading south/southeast), she mentions shacks with lots of workers.

I live in South Jersey as well (not too far from this area) and you should understand that these so called shacks laborers live in are on the property of the farm/agricultural center where they work. Famers offer housing to their workers. A larger than normal gathering there over the weekend doesn't necessarily mean their homes should be searched. They could have been gathered because the work day was done and they were just hanging out at one place. For one thing, the owner of the farm (the employer) should know if there is a van of that color driven by one of his workers, or by one of their visitors. The laborers houses are not too far separated from the owners house in many cases.

Just a heads up from a local perspective.

 

[afitzy]

But ... stranger abduction and crime of opportunity, 24 people at the tennis courts and playground saw a child abduction but did not realize that a child was abducted. How did that happen? The orange running shoes looked normal near the tennis courts?

@otto, looking at the map you did and the access to highways, given the amount of time between the abduction and LE showing up at the park, how far is it likely that the perp traveled?

The lag in putting up the Amber Alert has me wondering if it the delay was a bureaucratic snafu or was it intentional as LE believes the Red Van stayed local after looking at CCTV from the area?

 

[zecats]

I haven’t posted much on this. But I think about Dulce constantly.
I took rt 55 south yesterday from rt 42 . As a passenger I saw so much wilderness of trees and dirt trails.
Where are you little girl?

South Jersey is so different from North Jersey. Many who don't know this state think it's all like NYC suburbs...or Philly. Or like the TV show Jersey Shore. Even the Southern Shore areas are way different than the Northern ones. Route 42 leading into Route 55 takes you from the city to the suburbs to way down into what is called the Pine Barrens. If suspect took her that way, you're right - many back roads and hiding places. Bridgeton is not far away at all from wilderness and waterways..and the Pine Barrens. JMO

 

[zecats]

Walmart uses employees for unpacking trucks. It’s possible the men were day laborers hoping to pick up an odd job in the community. We have places in our town where they wait and everyone knows if you need someone wanting to do some work, go there.

The men in a group isn’t odd to me.

Ditto!

 

[zecats]

This is a street view of the back of WalMart and it is the warehouse distribution area where there would be a need for men to load and unload merchandise. It is possible that a group of men had just come off a work shift or were waiting to start. Off to the right of the picture, if you use Google street, the homes are small and I guess could be considered shacks although they done look like that to me.
Google Maps

Last time I was at a funeral at that particular funeral home, there wasn't even a Walmart there. It is basically a neighborhood area that leads into the town of Bridgeton rather than an agricultural area. In any case, I don't believe Walmart wold normally employ the farm laborers to load and unload from their warehouse. These laborers are typically housed and often gather at their "shacks" on the property of the farm where they are employed. And they are employed in the agriculture business.

 

[SuperTmo]

She's talking about 2 different areas here. Walmart was crowded and then when she was driving to her home on the Delaware Bay (this would be after leaving Bridgeton and heading south/southeast), she mentions shacks with lots of workers.

I live in South Jersey as well (not too far from this area) and you should understand that these so called shacks laborers live in are on the property of the farm/agricultural center where they work. Famers offer housing to their workers. A larger than normal gathering there over the weekend doesn't necessarily mean their homes should be searched. They could have been gathered because the work day was done and they were just hanging out at one place. For one thing, the owner of the farm (the employer) should know if there is a van of that color driven by one of his workers, or by one of their visitors. The laborers houses are not too far separated from the owners house in many cases.

Just a heads up from a local perspective.

Right! If their homes should be searched so should every other home and building.

 

[SuperTmo]

@otto, looking at the map you did and the access to highways, given the amount of time between the abduction and LE showing up at the park, how far is it likely that the perp traveled?

The lag in putting up the Amber Alert has me wondering if it the delay was a bureaucratic snafu or was it intentional as LE believes the Red Van stayed local after looking at CCTV from the area?

I think the lag was because the witnesses didn’t give a description until the next day. Once they leaned on the basketball players again they gave this weird description, which is why I think it was made up.

 

[dotr]

BBM for focus
I read an article a long time ago about teaching kids stranger danger.
The author, a mom, taught her kids how to spot/be wary tricky people instead of teaching them not to talk to strangers. I though it was an interesting approach.

Useful approach!
How Talking to My Sons About "Tricky People"—Not Just "Strangers"—Saved Their Lives
By
Jodie Norton May 20, 2016
CJ: “Mom, I knew they were tricky people because they were asking us for help. Adults don’t ask kids for help.”

Have you heard of the tricky people concept? Tricky people are the new strangers. Pattie Fitzgerald, the creator of Safely Ever After where the tricky people concept originated says, “Stop telling your kids not to talk to strangers. They might need to talk to a stranger one day. Instead, teach them which sorts of strangers are safe.”

One of her guidelines for knowing what people are unsafe is the rule CJ remembered in time of need–tricky people ask kids for help. If a safe adult needs help, they’ll ask another adult. Not a kid."

 

[rosesfromangels]

That’s been something everyone talks about. I always thought that maybe Dulce and her brother sort of jumped out, with excitement, and ran to the swings. The mom was helping her younger sister, the 8-9yr old with homework. I really just feel like it probably all happened so fast, and I am sure the park was overflowing around that time of day. Between her maybe thinking that she’d get out of the car soon, mixed with a false sense of security, due to other children playing and parents nearby, is what happened.

And, while she may have been a distance away, she could see to some extent, the playground.

Yes I can understand this. Being five months pregnant would likely make her less prone to activity like chasing kids in a park too. At least it would me.

While all the above adds up, something is still itching at me. Some unspoken piece of info. The manner in which the alleged Perp “fled” with the child sounds caring and fatherly; carefully buckling her in.

That’s not adding up in a grab and flee scenario. ?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[JerzeyGirl]

The fact that there’s no composite sketch or even a picture being released of what the van may look like makes me think LE doesn’t believe it.

If these people are illegal and the cops kept bothering them they may just be telling them anything to get them away from them.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Among new details released by authorities Friday:

— Investigators have spoken to about 75 people.

— Investigators have yet to speak to the little girl's father, who is in Mexico and has been described as estranged from the family.

— Authorities have stopped and spoken to the owners of numerous red vans seen on surveillance footage or through registration records.

— No physical evidence has been recovered, despite authorities combing a 1.5-mile radius around Bridgeton City Park near the high school.

Webb-McRae said that often someone in the community will unknowingly be associated a criminal offender but may not connect changes in their behavior to their involvement.

Some of the clues outlined by Webb-McRae:

— Sudden absences from work or school while offering reasonable reasons.

— Missing scheduled appointments and commitments.

— Suddenly leaving town, sometimes with a plausible reason.

— A change in use of alcohol or drugs.

— Altering clothing and appearance.

— Discarding clothing.

— Changing the appearance of their vehicle.

— They may become anxious, nervous or irritable.

— The person may either have a strong interest in developments in this case or divert discussion of the investigation.

No, 5-year-old missing girl Dulce's mother has not been arrested