AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #4

[Stunned]

Father of unborn baby was deported. Father of missing child is studying in Mexico and has family in Bridgeton - presumably grew up there - or what - illegal immigrant with extended family in the area? Father of 3 year old is unknown.

Is Dulce's father a USA citizen, or was he just working the the states when Dulce was conceived?

The father of unborn baby was deported? How did I miss that!?

 

[Steelslady]

She was a baby brought here or born here. Went to school here. No language barrier

Years ago, I was blessed with a lovely hispanic friend who was born in the USA- fluent in both languages, and she even learned French!

However, she spoke Spanish at home- always. Think about it- your mother, father, siblings, grandparents are the first people that teach you language skills and you pick those up when learning to speak. My friend spoke with a Spanish accent while speaking in English and French. English is such a hard language for bi-lingual folks to learn- romance languages use a different sentence structure than we do. Adjectives come before the nouns. Spanish nouns have a gender, possessive nouns don't exist (words with apostrophe's and an "s"). Exclamations and question marks are used in the beginning and end of sentence. Subjects don't always get included in a sentence, where as we are taught in English you need a subject (noun) and an adjective or the sentence isn't considered a "complete sentence". My friend had a hard time from those issues more than learning the pronunciation of the words- she said it was so much easier to pick up another romance language than English, because of the differences in how it is spoken in reverse, or added in (English), etc. All romance languages are spoken the same in terms of grammar usage. English it tough to learn all over the world- I've been told that by many foreigners who used to joke about how we made it difficult to learn and speak English as a second language. We take that for granted.

 

[momrids6]

Years ago, I was blessed with a lovely hispanic friend who was born in the USA- fluent in both languages, and she even learned French!

However, she spoke Spanish at home- always. Think about it- your mother, father, siblings, grandparents are the first people that teach you language skills and you pick those up when learning to speak. My friend spoke with a Spanish accent while speaking in English and French. English is such a hard language for bi-lingual folks to learn- romance languages use a different sentence structure than we do. Adjectives come before the nouns. Spanish nouns have a gender, possessive nouns don't exist (words with apostrophe's and an "s"). Exclamations and question marks are used in the beginning and end of sentence. Subjects don't always get included in a sentence, where as we are taught in English you need a subject (noun) and an adjective) or the sentence isn't considered a "complete sentence". My friend had a hard time from those issues more than learning the pronunciation of the words- she said it was so much easier to pick up another romance language than English, because of the differences in how it is spoken in reverse, or added in (English), etc. All romance languages are spoken the same in terms of grammar usage. English it tough to learn all over the world- I've been told that by many foreigners who used to joke about how we made it difficult to learn and speak as a second language. We take that for granted.

Steel, love you- but same scene in many homes where I grew up- but Italian. And only English in public. The elders immigrated and assimilated. You about got your head taken off if you switched to Italian in public, and we were all completely fluent in English at a young age- to the point of helping the elders with it.
I have a son with a speech & language disorder, so ASL is used here as well.
edited to add- I didn't reply to that post well. I had more of an issue with them being more familiar with Mexican police... and I would imagine the schools there provide intensive language classes.

 

[Steelslady]

Steel, love you- but same scene in many homes where I grew up- but Italian. And only English in public. The elders immigrated and assimilated. You about got your head taken off if you switched to Italian in public, and we were all completely fluent in English at a young age- to the point of helping the elders with it.

Love you back. I understand. I am just saying, if she spoke Spanish as a primary language at home, with friends, etc, while she can clearly speak English, these issues can, for some people, make it difficult to switch over. Others do it with ease.

I had a cousin that learned 8 languages growing up in Montreal- she could speak so fluently and clearly in each, it was amazing to hear her- she grew up in a multi-culture neighborhood. In order to play with the other kids around her, she had to learn them.

Yet my sister and I tried to speak French when we were there, but we both had a hard time with the differences in sentence structure and tenses, lol. I had the same problem with Spanish- my Hispanic friends would laugh when I talked to them in Spanish- they loved the effort that I made, but I tried to speak it like the English version- subject before adjectives, haha. Maybe I am just sympathetic to anyone who may have a hard time like my sis and I did when learning/speaking new languages. We did both have learning disabilities growing up- maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[momrids6]

Love you back. I understand. I am just saying, if she spoke Spanish as a primary language at home, with friends, etc, while she can clearly speak English, these issues can, for some people, make it difficult to switch over. Others do it with ease.

I had a cousin that learned 8 languages growing up in Montreal- she could speak so fluently and clearly in each, it was amazing to hear her- she grew up in a multi-culture neighborhood. In order to play with the other kids around her, she had to learn them.

Yet my sister and I tried to speak French when we were there, but we both had a hard time with the differences in sentence structure and tenses, lol. I had the same problem with Spanish- my Hispanic friends would laugh when I talked to them in Spanish- they loved the effort that I made, but I tried to speak it like the English version- subject before adjectives, haha. Maybe I am just sympathetic to anyone who may have a hard time like my sis and I did when learning/speaking new languages. We did both have learning disabilities growing up- maybe that had something to do with it.

I hear you- I get it. I learned ASL as an adult. And it was ugly. As a teacher's wife, I always assume the schools do an excellent job with ESL and English

 

[rosesfromangels]

Mother of 5-year-old South Jersey girl apparently abducted in Bridgeton park grieves and waits

Why would she wear that outfit for the cover? I’m a huge mom supporter. But red pants and a black shirt. What statement does that make ?

Who cares. I don’t.
Fashion statements (or lack thereof), have nothing to do with finding Dulce Maria Alavez.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Can we step back & give them a pass with regards to clothinv, shoes, etc.? It's getting a bit ridiculous. She's pregnant, and not employed. Maybe this is what she had that was clean & comfortable? clean laundry & fits is probably the statement.

For heavens sake, THANK YOU.

 

[MissMalowe]

Perhaps nervousness (press conferences, interviews, etc) play a role?

If you listen to the 911 audio, she speaks very well and answers the questions the 911 operator and police officer asked her very quickly/clearly without any noticeable difficulties.

 

[Yvettea]

Yes - the point of my question is that if no one remembers seeing her at all that day, that could point to a speculation that they may have been stalked and followed from home to ice cream to the park....and grabbed right away before anyone had a chance to notice her.

This would also make the street cam/all cam videos super important. If my theory is right, this is no opportunistic grab and go. This was planned, and they were followed to the park. If I'm right, video somewhere should hopefully show this.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

Hi. Are you suggesting Dulce was grabbed as soon as she left the car?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Operator: 911 what is your emergency?
Caller: I can’t find my daughter.
Operator: When was the last time you seen her?
Caller: We were, we were with her at the park and people say that somebody, probably somebody took her.
Operator: Ok how old is she?
Caller: She’s five years old.
Operator: Ok and what park are you at?
Caller: Here in Bridgeton Park.
Operator: OK where in the Bridgeton Park are you?
Caller: Umm... The one with the basketball court where the high school is.
Operator: Ah OK so you’re at the basketball courts behind the high school?
Caller: Yes.
Operator: Ok, and what was she seen last wearing?
Caller: (pauses) …She was wearing um…, umm, give me a second (speaks to another person in Spanish). I don’t remember what clothes she was wearing, but she was wearing, I just remember her pants, she was wearing like a flower, flowery pants, and some heels, some white heels.
Operator: Ok ma’am stay on the line I will transfer you over to the police.
Operator: And you said she was five correct?
Caller: Yes.
Police: Hello ma’am, did you she which direction your child went?
Caller: No we were in the car she, she came down with my son. They were running to the park and then me and my sister we came down. So whe, whe, when we got here at the park she wasn’t here. They said, they said that my son was just crying with his ice cream, because somebody spilled his ice cream on the floor and my daughter just ran away.
Police: OK hold on.
Police: Alright, you didn’t see anyone else around there that she could have possibly went with?
Caller: No not… not that I know of, cause we just don’t know. There’s just some other people that.., they are here that say that they saw her running. Running through um…,Through some houses in the back. And they, they said that they saw two pers… they saw two men. They saw a black guy and they saw a Mexican man with two kids.
Police: So who’s saying, who’s saying that, who’s saying they saw them?
Caller: There’s people here in the basketball court, that they saw her, they said that they saw her running.
Police: They’re saying that there’s people there at the basketball court, that they saw her running through some houses with two black males.
What colour top did she have on?
Caller: Um... I don’t remember.
Police: Are you at the basketball court?
Caller: Yes I`m right here right now.
Police: And do you have your son with you or is your son…
Caller: No, I have my son with me. They say he was crying when we found him. He was just standing there crying.
Police: he was standing there crying so who… you said that the black males took his ice cream?
Caller: No they threw it on the floor.
Police: So the two males took his ice cream and threw it on the floor, and then they left with your daughter?
Caller: Probably, cause I didn’t saw it. When we came in and look for her we were looking everywhere for her and we couldn’t find her.
Officer arrives on scene.

ETA:

What i don't like about this call (and it's only a small point and is noticeable in her interviews, too) is she fails to use Dulce's name freely and without prompt throughout.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Hi. Are you suggesting Dulce was grabbed as soon as she left the car?

IDK, but it seems possible. Tracked, and quickly plucked from the playground. If there aren’t reports of her being seen there, it would reinforce this possibility.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsMarple]

I don't think we're the only ones left confused by the 911 call.
Mom’s 911 call shows early confusion about 2 men seen near missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez

The article addresses some of what's being discussed here. Also it notes that there will be a public search of the park on Sunday.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://www.nj.com/resizer/36_6KI8A...aws.com/public/PVZRBL7YVBATZFWVRGVNYH5MFY.jpg​

“There’s just some other people that are here that say that they saw her running through some houses in the back,” Alavez Perez tells the dispatcher. “They said that they saw two men. They saw a black guy and they saw a Mexican man with two kids.”

From there, the descriptions get muddled. The dispatcher describes the two men back to Alavez Perez as “black males” and the mother doesn’t correct her.

“So the two males took his ice cream and threw it on the floor and then they left with your daughter?” the dispatcher asks.

“Probably,” Alavez Perez replies, “because I didn’t saw it.”

During Friday’s press conference, Bridgeton Police Chief Michael Gaimari explained that arriving officers spoke with the mom after she had heard from a few witnesses.

Authorities indicated Friday that the description that led to the Amber Alert was provided by a child of “tender years.”
Mom’s 911 call shows early confusion about 2 men seen near missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez

 

[squareandrabbet]

My thoughts... a small child could call tan work boots orange, Timberlands are sort of an orange color. They could also say maroon is red. They could also confuse an SUV with a van. I don’t think a black shirt, red or maroon pants and work boots would be a weird combo, someone who works in construction sometimes wants to wear bold clothes to stick out for their safety.

Thank you!! I was trying to think of the brand of suede work boots that I often look at in Marshall's or similar and think, "Those are pretty orange, for what I'm imagining are supposed to be tan boots..." Of course they are Timberland.

Also, in French there are different verb tenses for third person singular and third person plural ("we", "they"), and it takes a devilish long time to pick them up in every scenario. Any chance that Spanish has a similar grammatical setup? Then confusion between individual people ("he"), and groups of people ("they"), could be the result of a translation mistake by either the transcriber of Noemi's words or Noemi herself. I had a friend from Morocco in college, she was absolutely fluent in English, but whenever she got angry, the speech part of her brain broke down and she could only think in French, by her own admission. Maybe Noemi is the same with Spanish when agitated.

It's also by no means an uncommon situation in NYC, that Hispanic immigrant families learn fluent English after they go places where the kids have to become fluent in English; and thus teach the parents. Maybe Noemi taught her parents. The fact that she was reviewing her little sister's homework, might reflect that her parents aren't fluent enough in written English to do it justice.

 

[MimosaMornings]

In South Jersey, a massive search - and a wave of worry - for missing 5-year-old girl

“Lula Suggs said when news of the disappearance broke on TV, she instantly recognized Dulce as the child she saw at the City Park playground three days earlier, chasing around with her younger brother while their mother watched from her car.”

So it was usual for mom to sit in the car.

 

[958pm]

So it was usual for mom to sit in the car.

If I understand correctly, That was the Friday prior sighting. It was not unusual for mom to sit in car. Correct me if I’m wrong on date but that’s the way it reads.

 

[Yvettea]

IDK, but it seems possible. Tracked, and quickly plucked from the playground. If there aren’t reports of her being seen there, it would reinforce this possibility.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, I think it could work if someone lithe but strong was between two of the small buildings and just raced out and scooped her up (and she hung on tight to her ice cream.)

What if she screamed? The noise could be drowned out by the basketball games.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“This case is going to be closed with a tip from the public,” said FOP Lodge 5 President John McNesby. “Somebody out there has information that will help close this case.”

McNesby said the FOP’s reward will be paid when there is an arrest.

The playground at Bridgeton City Park near Ridgeway-Hunter Field, where 5-year-old Dulce Maria Alavez, who was abducted last Monday. Sept.23, 2019


Reward for finding Dulce increases to $40,000, what you need to know about the case

 

[MJPeony]

So it was usual for mom to sit in the car.

This is what I suspected from the beginning because I think it makes sense as to the perp having noticed this before- and it presented an opportunity.

MOO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]