NJ NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted @ Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland Co, 16 Sep 2019 #7

[Suglo]

I’m still leaning toward 2. Someone her family knows-either as repayment of a debt or retaliation for something just based on statement Noema made early on :

“If someone could return my daughter, she’s just an innocent girl,” Alavez Perez said. “She’s just living her child life. She has nothing to do with the problems we had in the past or people we have trouble [with]. Why her? Why does she have to pay the consequences?” She’s just a small girl

This statement is pure Catholic guilt speaking. It doesn’t mean that she or her family did anything or knows anyone who might have taken Dulce. It’s just a fatalistic view that many people from Hispanic countries have. Anything bad that happens is punishment from God for the sins of our past. My mother and I also tend to have the same viewpoint. When my husband died at a very young age, I was convinced that God was punishing me for not toeing the line in my early 20s. I don’t believe she said this with any one person in mind. It’s just part of the culture she grew up in. Oh and “pay” in Spanish is pagar. We pay for our sins. Pagamos por nuestros delitos.

It’s not easy to convey a cultural norm to those that haven’t grown up in the culture so this is all IMO. I believe this was the work of a predator (young or old) who saw an opportunity and literally grabbed it.

 

[283]

This statement is pure Catholic guilt speaking. It doesn’t mean that she or her family did anything or knows anyone who might have taken Dulce. It’s just a fatalistic view that many people from Hispanic countries have. Anything bad that happens is punishment from God for the sins of our past. My mother and I also tend to have the same viewpoint. When my husband died at a very young age, I was convinced that God was punishing me for not toeing the line in my early 20s. I don’t believe she said this with any one person in mind. It’s just part of the culture she grew up in. Oh and “pay” in Spanish is pagar. We pay for our sins. Pagamos por nuestros delitos.

It’s not easy to convey a cultural norm to those that haven’t grown up in the culture so this is all IMO. I believe this was the work of a predator (young or old) who saw an opportunity and literally grabbed it.

I’m familiar with the term Catholic guilt but are you using it broadly here because they aren’t catholic ?

 

[casesensitive]

This statement is pure Catholic guilt speaking. It doesn’t mean that she or her family did anything or knows anyone who might have taken Dulce. It’s just a fatalistic view that many people from Hispanic countries have. Anything bad that happens is punishment from God for the sins of our past. My mother and I also tend to have the same viewpoint. When my husband died at a very young age, I was convinced that God was punishing me for not toeing the line in my early 20s. I don’t believe she said this with any one person in mind. It’s just part of the culture she grew up in. Oh and “pay” in Spanish is pagar. We pay for our sins. Pagamos por nuestros delitos.

It’s not easy to convey a cultural norm to those that haven’t grown up in the culture so this is all IMO. I believe this was the work of a predator (young or old) who saw an opportunity and literally grabbed it.

I have heard this religious guilt explanation discussed earlier, and have given it much thought and credibility. But how do you explain why Noema's family is angry at her because they think she knows more than she is saying? Granted, it was the spokeswoman who said Noema told her this. But they don't seem to be angry about her past sins being punished, as much as her not being open and honest. jmo

 

[demetra]

I have not closed this beautiful child's thread since the day this all started, sometimes i post other times i stare blankly at the comments and opinions of others and feel nothing but sad and hopeless for Dulce. My thought and own opinion of Noema saying " she shouldn't pay for my past" etc..is not because she owes anyone money/drugs/or gang involvement, i feel it is her way of feeling guilt for partying/hanging out/drinking and drugs in her past and she feels like maybe someone her family has unfriended or had words with may have took Dulce, I mean wouldn't we all question our past if this was our baby girl? I could very easy see me questioning everyone past boyfriends/partying friends/troubled family members and i simply think Noema was saying if you had a problem with me why take her she is innocent.I pray for Dulce and her family and hope they soon have answers. all this is moo.

 

[MsMarple]

Yes, this could very well be Trackergd, it's a huge park. Several people on various sites have been speculating near, or in a dumpster in the park that was then transported to a landfill. That seems like a very real possibility IMO.
Poor, poor baby. It's really hard to understand how a mind could become so depraved as to commit such a heinous act against society.

Amateur opinion and speculation

ITA. From the start the logical scenario - if Dulce was taken by a pedophile for SA purposes that is - that she was deceased within hours and her body dumped within a 2 or three mile radius. A poster here who is local mentioned the vastness of the park (app. 1100 acres) and numerous dead end trails. So, it follows that discarding her body in a park dumpster is also a likely possibility.

I feel like I'm raining on the Optimism Parade but at 3 1/2 months missing the only options left IMO are that she is deceased or has been taken somewhere and held. And frankly, it's equally distressing to think of Dulce being held somewhere for whatever nefarious reasons.

 

[Beekarina]

I’m decently young and have been here all my life and spent time around the good, the bad, and the ugly of Cumberland county and was very lucky.
And by lucky, I mean not ever caught up in someone’s nonsense with the police.
Not proud of it, but it’s made me and a family member extremely trusted.
Guys talk. Especially to impress girls. Especially to girls who don’t gossip or have their own agenda.

I’ve been to a lot of pit parties, block parties, backyard parties (basically woods because it’s forrest everywhere it’s not farm land = my poor allergies but i digress). Drove to some random locations off the beaten path.

Those woods are terribly dense, getting out to pee was even always a drunken disaster. The terrain wasn’t even and there were big fallen branches everywhere.

Ive been browsing a lot of cases that the person is found in literally an area that was “searched” so I don’t count it out.

There is a large company that provides the large contractor dumpsters. Drops them off, picks them up when called, dumped, and returned multiple times during constructions. I do not know where they dump to unfortunately. But if you guys are playing with the trucker angle, that’s a real easy way to get away with this. Their background checks are... minimal considering who I know employed by them.

Thit angle seems plausible to me.

I grew up in rural New England, so as kids we used to party out in the woods, off logging trails, and abandoned "CC Camps", aka Depression Era work projects, long abandoned, and overgrown. These party spots were somewhat accessible, but there are State Forests and private land nearby that are not, and who knows what is out there? Your part of New,Jersey sounds similar.

 

[Beekarina]

I'm not sure what to think about Noema.

Her comment might indicate she knew more than she shared, however I personally feel she would have cracked by now if this was the case.

My gut feels it was desperation. Reaching for an explanation. It would be preferable to think someone you had beef with bad your 5 year-old daughter, especially given the neighborhood code around treating kids well, instead of the alternatives.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm not sure what to think about Noema.
.

Respectfully snipped.
Yes, well I think you have plenty of company in this regard.
I think once she completes the impending birth of baby #3, LE is going to intensify their efforts to seek additional info from her.

Does anyone know what has become of the father to baby #3? Is he still around? Are they planning on setting up house together? Anyone know?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[283]

Respectfully snipped.
Yes, well I think you have plenty of company in this regard.
I think once she completes the impending birth of baby #3, LE is going to intensify their efforts to seek additional info from her.

Does anyone know what has become of the father to baby #3? Is he still around? Are they planning on setting up house together? Anyone know?

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think Noema & Edgar were already living together in the room they rented near her parents home, but not sure if that is still the case?

 

[carbuff]

Praying that Dulce is found soon.

 

[Trackergd]

This warmer weather with all the green vegetation dead would be ideal to re-search the entire park with professional SAR teams and cadaver dogs. Time to do a thorough search and either find Dulce or rule the park out.

Something telling to me, SAR experts know that these are the best possible conditions, semi-warm days with all the green growth dead and a clear view of the woods floor. The fact that there appears to be no searches planned makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[WildOrchid]

I hope you are right and that this lack of movement is indicative that LE has a handle on it. I hope it isn’t because the case is botched and it’s not being prioritized. The authorities at the few pressers did not impress me at all with their approachability. I truly hope this is a case of hurry up and wait.

This warmer weather with all the green vegetation dead would be ideal to re-search the entire park with professional SAR teams and cadaver dogs. Time to do a thorough search and either find Dulce or rule the park out.

Something telling to me, SAR experts know that these are the best possible conditions, semi-warm days with all the green growth dead and a clear view of the woods floor. The fact that there appears to be no searches planned makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[Stunned]

Apsolutely no disrespect to PunkCake, but IMO, this community knows. Thank you PunkCake for what you were trying to do.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Someone brought up a few replies back, or pages ago, that Neoma may have been in the habit of sitting in the car while the children played.

In general, I have the uncomfortable feeling this behavior is more common than we all realize. Twice now, since Dulce disappeared, I've angered females in a neighborhood watch group.

1. I posted mentioning if your child wanders off to call 911. Time is of the essence.

2. I posted an article showing a mother that left her infant in a running vehicle for "just a minute" was arrested on wanton endangerment. That car was stolen with the infant inside, police chase, crash, miracle baby was fine.

Both times people have got offended. My point is, I think it's a miracle more children aren't missing. I try not to judge Neoma as I get the feeling her behavior is pretty common.

JMO

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I think Noema & Edgar were already living together in the room they rented near her parents home, but not sure if that is still the case?

Could Edgar be married or was married to someone else when Noema got pregnant? That could be a reason for “Why does Dulce have to pay.”

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

Could Edgar be married or was married to someone else when Noema got pregnant? That could be a reason for “Why does Dulce have to pay.”

Exactly. This theory makes a lot of sense. But it could be payback for something else. Either way, I think it's number 2 in the poll. It's someone the family knows.

 

[Stunned]

IMO, it’s someone the community knows.

 

[Araised_Marvels]

Someone brought up a few replies back, or pages ago, that Neoma may have been in the habit of sitting in the car while the children played.

In general, I have the uncomfortable feeling this behavior is more common than we all realize. Twice now, since Dulce disappeared, I've angered females in a neighborhood watch group.

1. I posted mentioning if your child wanders off to call 911. Time is of the essence.

2. I posted an article showing a mother that left her infant in a running vehicle for "just a minute" was arrested on wanton endangerment. That car was stolen with the infant inside, police chase, crash, miracle baby was fine.

Both times people have got offended. My point is, I think it's a miracle more children aren't missing. I try not to judge Neoma as I get the feeling her behavior is pretty common.

JMO

This is indispensable advice that could save a child's life. I am glad you spoke out, CSIDreamer.

In a week it would be nearing 4 months since the disappearance. I am hoping the silence from LE and others is because they have a really really good lead. Otherwise, time is going by with no new clues. I wouldn't be surprised if the community knows something but is afraid because of possible retribution.

Hoping new searches are coming up soon. I still think time is of the essence here.

 

[casesensitive]

IMO, it’s someone the community knows.

Do you think they are afraid to speak up, feel Dulce is better off where she is, are protecting someone, or just don't want to get involved?

IMO, having ICE pick up Edgar for questioning was a critical blunder made in this investigation. I'm sure it has caused lasting fear in the community despite later assurances that no witness will face deportation.

 

[Stunned]

Do you think they are afraid to speak up, feel Dulce is better off where she is, are protecting someone, or just don't want to get involved?

IMO, having ICE pick up Edgar for questioning was a critical blunder made in this investigation. I'm sure it has caused lasting fear in the community despite later assurances that no witness will face deportation.

Oh ICE destroyed this case. I sadly don’t think Dulce is alive and IMO the community will never talk. Unless it is used as leverage against someone of another crime. A plea deal of some sort.