No Flames - Innocent until proven guilty

[Imajica]

But as for the poll:Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law....
which of course she will be because she's a baby murdering narcistic psychopath.
Ok,I made up the last part.

*bolded by moi*

Nope, looks dead on to me. I think you hit all the highlights nicely.

I think its safe to say if enough evidence didn't exist to prove her guilt in Caylee's murder beyond a reasonable doubt, the Grand Jury never would have indicted, and this case would not be going to trial.

Certainly she deserves her day in court, as much but not more than Caylee deserves to know that her Mother is being held accountable by the Laws of Justice for the callous taking of her young life.

 

[kline]

*bolded by moi*

Nope, looks dead on to me. I think you hit all the highlights nicely.

I think its safe to say if enough evidence didn't exist to prove her guilt in Caylee's murder beyond a reasonable doubt, the Grand Jury never would have indicted, and this case would not be going to trial.

Certainly she deserves her day in court, as much but not more than Caylee deserves to know that her Mother is being held accountable by the Laws of Justice for the callous taking of her young life.

Well put:clap:
Casey is entitled to her day in court.
Caylee is entitled to the justice that hopefully will be meted out there.

 

[radio]

With the intense, constant, very biased media coverage of this case, I don't know where they will be able to get a fair trial, in or outside of Orlando. Whether KC is innocent or guilty, the media have been calling her a remorseless murderer on a several-times a day basis on national TV for 6 months now, even vilifying the defense team ever since the GJ. I hope she does get a fair trial though, hopefully they'll get people on the jury who aren't the TV watching, burn her at the stake types, but people who will want to see all the evidence. I really don't know if they would have any better luck outside of Orlando.

It's obvious that Caylee was murdered (not an accident), I personally don't think the evidence we've heard about so far proves Casey was the perpetrator, she didn't necessarily have sole access to the car, the computer, etc. Friends also had information about chloroform before she did, etc. She had no history of abusing Caylee or hostility toward Caylee. I'm not convinced of motive because she could leave Caylee with her parents or brother anytime if she wanted to be free. But I think she could easily be convicted simply because of her bizarre inability or unwillingness to provide information. Personally I think she's not all there. I think she's addle-brained. My opinion only. She has put up absolutely no defense whatsoever of herself when she could easily have done so many steps along the way. Then there are the many questions regarding the body, was it placed there after she was already in custody, etc. I honestly don't know what will happen in this case. I hope the truth comes out.

Agree with you. It will be interesting to see how this all progresses. It is a strange atmosphere for sure.

 

[natsound]

Can't vote on this one... my vote would be "guilty of 1st degree murder, unsure if there's enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt."

 

[JustanotherJane]

I wish we had a court system like over in Germany. You are guilty until proven innocent! They don't need search warrants, if they have reason to believe your hiding anything, they can just come on in. Just think how much could have been saved on this case?

not me, I'm glad we don't have one like Germany. Do you REALLY mean that? If so, you are not thinking past this one instance. What if it were you or a loved one?

 

[PoppyH]

I chose#4, her actions speak way louder than words, very telling, then there is the hair with the death band, decomp smell, etc etc, and who knows what else they have thet we have not seen yet, Im sure she will get a fair trial, after all the jury has to go by the facts of the case and not whats in the media

 

[TxLady2]

With the intense, constant, very biased media coverage of this case, I don't know where they will be able to get a fair trial, in or outside of Orlando. Whether KC is innocent or guilty, the media have been calling her a remorseless murderer on a several-times a day basis on national TV for 6 months now, even vilifying the defense team ever since the GJ. I hope she does get a fair trial though, hopefully they'll get people on the jury who aren't the TV watching, burn her at the stake types, but people who will want to see all the evidence. I really don't know if they would have any better luck outside of Orlando.

It's obvious that Caylee was murdered (not an accident), I personally don't think the evidence we've heard about so far proves Casey was the perpetrator, she didn't necessarily have sole access to the car, the computer, etc. Friends also had information about chloroform before she did, etc. She had no history of abusing Caylee or hostility toward Caylee. I'm not convinced of motive because she could leave Caylee with her parents or brother anytime if she wanted to be free. But I think she could easily be convicted simply because of her bizarre inability or unwillingness to provide information. Personally I think she's not all there. I think she's addle-brained. My opinion only. She has put up absolutely no defense whatsoever of herself when she could easily have done so many steps along the way. Then there are the many questions regarding the body, was it placed there after she was already in custody, etc. I honestly don't know what will happen in this case. I hope the truth comes out.

Agree as well. She is definitely mentally unbalanced... anyone who would kill their own child has some screws loose somewhere.
Where can they get a fair trial? Nowhere in FL, I'm sure. They would have to move it to Mars to get 12 people who are unbiased and have no opinions.

 

[Brini]

So was OJ... different circumstances, but same premise.

Exactly!

I think she can have a fair trial, if the lawyers do voir dire well.

I am QUITE certain that she is guilty. But, if presented with strong evidence of innocence, would change my mind.

 

[passionflower]

Guilty with enough evidence already.........IMO
BUT we have seem that not all evidence is shown to the jury.
Juries can only convict if they believe without a reasonable doubt.
We saw what happened in the OJ case...........it scares me that kc
could get out and reproduce again and be a menace to society!
A leopard cannot change its spots.........IMO

 

[yolorado]

Yeah thats how you end up with people disappearing in the middle of the night and taken to some soccer stadium and tortured and murdered and dumped in a mass grave by 'Police' Or 'Soldiers'
They tried that in Iraq and South America.
But as for the poll:Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law....which of course she will be because she's a baby murdering narcistic psychopath.
Ok,I made up the last part.

It is a good part about our system that we are less likely to be drug away in the middle of the night, but there are bad parts to our system too. The victim is often forgotten in the glut of 'rights' accorded the defendant. Trials often take years to come to fruition. Victims are often allowed to be drug through the mud and the guilty too often go free. 'Justice' frequently gets lost in our process. Look at OJ. Look at Phil S. In my opinion, look at W Kennedy S. Heck, look at T Kennedy.

Related to our discussions here, a major flaw in our laws is that parents can 'lose' their children, not report them missing, not co-operate with the police to find them, and go on undected while they continue their lives as if nothing untoward happened... for years, months or 31 days, and then, when the child's absense is detected, it's the state and taxpayers who have to go to the trouble and expense of proving something more (child abuse, murder, whatever) to keep them locked up forever. Losing a child under these circumstances should be enough. Our justice system really isn't tough enough to deal with these ner do wells and it's frustrating as these cases go on and on while defense attorneys such as JB play games for months and years.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Although I think there is more than enough evidence to establish her guilt--I do believe in the jury system and I do believe she can get a fair trial. My boyfriend, employees and most other people I know have no idea who she is--not everyone is on the web, watches NG, GR or Greta. Yes some are aware that some months ago a little girl was missing but they did not follow the case and are wholly unaware of everything that has transpired or anything that we know.

 

[Just__me]

Oh PLEASE save me from more poor KC... Of course she can get a fair trial, this is just a defense tactic to cost us more money and qualify for an appeal.

OJ
Ted Bundy
David Berkowitz
Manson
Dennis Rader
Mary Winkler
Susan Smith
Andrea Yates
Scott Petersen
John Couey
Phil Specter
Mike Vick
Just to name a few that fly off the top of my head. We heard the same crap from these people. It is my opinion in most cases the criminal justice system errs on the side of leniency and not that of justice.
I firmly believe KC killed Caylee, yet I know that I could sit on the jury and listen to what the defense had to offer up and make a fair and rational decision. For you or anyone else to say the members of the jury are not capable of doing so is unfair and certainly an insult to most Americans! Remember one day you could possibly be saying the same thing about yourself "I am not capable of making a fair rational decision if given the opportunity."

 

[SuziQ]

I believe KC will get a fair trial. Even here at WS, there are plenty of informed yet unbiased posters. Besides, the attorneys get to pick and choose who's on the jury. What worries me are the people who just can't imagine that KC is a cold blooded killer. They want to believe it was an accident, she's mentally ill, JG did it, anything but the fact she murdered her child in cold blood. This is a murder one case that requires a unanimous verdict. All it takes is one person who can't fathom a mother being so evil and the case is screwed. Because one juror can't let their mind go there, justice for Caylee won't be served.

So here is my question. Does the jury in a murder one case in Florida, that can't agree with murder one, have the option to hand down murder two or manslaughter?

 

[PrintGal]

The legal presumption of innocence is not the same as you or I drawing a reaonable conclusion based on the facts of the case as we know them now. 'Tried in the media' is just defense whining, imo. The burden of proof is still on on the prosecution. She can still get a fair trial. As long as by fair one means that her rights under the law will be protected and all legal protocols observed. Sadly defense attorneys in this country defend those they know are guilty and pose alternative explanations they know the be false in order to protect their win record by creating reasonable doubt.

 

[Just__me]

With the intense, constant, very biased media coverage of this case, I don't know where they will be able to get a fair trial, in or outside of Orlando. Whether KC is innocent or guilty, the media have been calling her a remorseless murderer on a several-times a day basis on national TV for 6 months now, even vilifying the defense team ever since the GJ. I hope she does get a fair trial though, hopefully they'll get people on the jury who aren't the TV watching, burn her at the stake types, but people who will want to see all the evidence. I really don't know if they would have any better luck outside of Orlando.

It's obvious that Caylee was murdered (not an accident), I personally don't think the evidence we've heard about so far proves Casey was the perpetrator, she didn't necessarily have sole access to the car, the computer, etc. Friends also had information about chloroform before she did, etc. She had no history of abusing Caylee or hostility toward Caylee. I'm not convinced of motive because she could leave Caylee with her parents or brother anytime if she wanted to be free. But I think she could easily be convicted simply because of her bizarre inability or unwillingness to provide information. Personally I think she's not all there. I think she's addle-brained. My opinion only. She has put up absolutely no defense whatsoever of herself when she could easily have done so many steps along the way. Then there are the many questions regarding the body, was it placed there after she was already in custody, etc. I honestly don't know what will happen in this case. I hope the truth comes out.

No KC could not just leave Caylee with her parents or Lee anytime she wanted... read her text messages and IM's. When CA did watch Caylee it is obvious CA would call KC when she had been gone too long and she would have to go home... you want me to believe KC did not get angry and resent that she had to go home!?
Susan Smiths' mother said " My daughter is not a violent person. My daughter never abused her children. My daughter loved them dearly, they were her life"
Sound familiar?

 

[SuziQ]

No KC could not just leave Caylee with her parents or Lee anytime she wanted... read her text messages and IM's. When CA did watch Caylee it is obvious CA would call KC when she had been gone too long and she would have to go home... you want me to believe KC did not get angry and resent that she had to go home!?
Susan Smiths' mother said " My daughter is not a violent person. My daughter never abused her children. My daughter loved them dearly, they were her life"
Sound familiar?

Both cases also have video and pics that falsely portray happy moms and kids. I like to use Susan's case as an example that what we see on film means squat.

 

[weasel]

Can't vote on this one... my vote would be "guilty of 1st degree murder, unsure if there's enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt."

How so? Sorry, but if I misunderstood. How can a person be guilty of 1st degree murder if there isn't enough evidence to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt"? If that were the case, she'd be acquitted. I think?

 

[Jolynna]

OJ, M. Jackson, Menendez Brothers, P. Spector, R. Blake show that despite the most negative publicity, the burden is always on the PROSECUTION.

With all eyes scrutinizing every mistake, publicity can work against the state as much as against the "presumed innocent" defendant. Especially when the accused is a pretty mom people WANT to believe the best about.

Casey has the most renowned "experts" in their prospective fields dedicating themselves to challenging every damaging iota of evidence Casey might have sloppily left behind.

LKB is probably the best I have ever seen at smoke and mirrors.

I do not feel ALL recieve equal opportunities to justice. I fully support causes like the "innocence project". But, in this case, if I lose sleep, it will be from worrying about "justice for Caylee" not "justice for Casey".

MOO

 

[babycat]

No KC could not just leave Caylee with her parents or Lee anytime she wanted... read her text messages and IM's. When CA did watch Caylee it is obvious CA would call KC when she had been gone too long and she would have to go home... you want me to believe KC did not get angry and resent that she had to go home!?
Susan Smiths' mother said " My daughter is not a violent person. My daughter never abused her children. My daughter loved them dearly, they were her life"
Sound familiar?

I took that poster's statement to mean she could leave Caylee "for the long haul" and not like, every time Casey wanted to go out. I thought the poster meant that if she got tired of being a mom, someone else would take custody, in lieu if killing her. In that case, I do believe the poster is correct in that assumption...

I might be wrong about the poster's inference, though

 

[tiredofthis]

While I hate to be the one to say it - we all have to realize that our judicial system is set up as KC is innocent until the prosecutors prove without a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of killing Caylee. Yes, I know emotions are running high - especially after the judgement that came down from the Grand Jury - but folks she is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Do I personally believe she can have a fair trial here in Orlando - nope, absolutely not. They will have to probably move the case to one of our smaller, rural counties to get an impartial jury. Do I personally think that she is guilty of someway causing harm to her daughter and causing her death - yes - but in a court of law she is innocent. Even though in the eyes of the public she is guilty - we all have to understand what makes our country great. Having a fair and even judicial system.

Any thoughts? Do you think she can get a fair trial?

I completely agree with you. I think KC is as guilty as they come, but until she is proven guilty in a court of law, she is innocent.