NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #6

[CoolJ]

Regarding witness statements — here is the link to the JFK docu I was talking about

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vvV5v5wkpjg

the segment about witness confusion about where the shots came from starts at 34:00 and a minute later is the Iraq thing I was talking about.

So I would have we have the pretty similar situation here — on some videos you hear people talking its firecrackers and that afters couple of salvos went by. It was a women on one video who even says „the always say its firecrackers but this is a gun“. I wouldn’t put too much weight on testimony regarding where the shooting was heard and how many shooters appeared to be, because if we can learn something from JFK case where every audio/video recording, photo and statement was microanalysed for the last 54 years it is that such testimony is unreliable. We better stick to cold hard evidence, provided we will get some. The boston 25 fox affiliate should try to get more photos from the source that leaked the room photos and the hallway video.

So we should just disregard what the victims are saying? Like shouldn't even consider it?

People get sent to prison for life based solely on eye witness reports.

What about forensic acoustics? Is that cold hard enough evidence for you?

There is a crap load of evidence pointing towards multiple shooters. The only "evidence" pointing to a lone mad man is that is what the "authorities" are telling us. I'm sticking with what the facts are telling me, not what a scared sheriff is telling me. I'm sorry if that somehow offends people but I am stickler for the truth.

 

[Jennifer17]

Why would he need guarding? Look at the people here who, with no evidence whatsoever, are saying that he was involved in the shooting.

 

[CARIIS]

Houston we have another problem

could see the suspect's door was just riddled with bullet holes coming out. it looked like Swiss cheese.

?????

Our problems continue

bullet-ridden door

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-officers-describe-storming-shooter-stephen-paddock-hotel-room/

 

[kittythehare]

Hoston we have more problems

All kinds of monitors and electrical equipment he had in there. It just looked like almost a gun store.

We were trippin' over guns. Trippin' over long guns inside. There was so many.

In the "leaked" pictures i saw two guns lying nicely on the floor ?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-officers-describe-storming-shooter-stephen-paddock-hotel-room/

The leaked photographs came after they had processed the crime scene, bagged lots of stuff and named and numbered exhibits. I dont believe the leaked photos were necessarily those taken by lE as part of the crime scene processing. The forensics people would have their own photographs..
But it was very strange they were leaked all the same..
Who had access?
Only the police, normally while a body remains in situ, it cannot be left unattended...
Weird okay

 

[Gardenista]

Las Vegas musician recounts leading group to safety during shooting

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local...unts-leading-group-to-safety-during-shooting/

 

[CoolJ]

I’ve posted this in just about every other thread. I’m not sure if you have me on ignore or something but hopefully you see it this time around

Copy and pasting one of posts from a now closed thread. I would not be surprised if there is not surveillance footage from the hotel hallways.

Las Vegas casinos — some of the most closely watched spaces in the world — don’t have video cameras in guest room hallways, an absence that hotel workers like Patrick, patrons and prosecutors say can act as a green light for crime.

Casino bosses say there is no need for extra security: America’s playground boasts more cameras per square foot than any airport or sports arena in the country, with thousands of high-tech lenses watching the gambling floors, lobbies and elevators.

snip

Yet The Associated Press found that 23 of the 27 major Strip casinos have no surveillance in hotel hallways or elevator landings. All but four of the 27 hotels are owned by MGM Resorts International, Caesars Entertainment Corp., Las Vegas Sands Corp. or Wynn Resorts Ltd.


http://www.mercurynews.com/2013/10/1...-surveillance/

That's from an incident in 2013 when a maid was attacked in the hallway. I don't think surveillance in the hotel hallways is nearly as important to the hotels as it is in the casinos. They care about protecting their money and making sure things are running smooth on the casino floor. They probably don't care too much what goes on in the hallways of the hotel. Well maybe now they do, but I don't think it was that much of a concern before this. JMO

The below link has some pics of the inside of a Vegas surveillance room. I only skimmed the article bc it's long, but it's interesting.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/14/3...ing-technology




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I am finding it hard to believe there are no cameras in the hallways at Mandalay Bay. Really hard to believe. Most Super 8's have cameras in the hallways. If anyone has followed the Kenneka Jenkins case they know that the Crowne Plaza in Rosemont, Illinois has them.
I'm digging more into this.

 

[CoolJ]

Why would he need guarding? Look at the people here who, with no evidence whatsoever, are saying that he was involved in the shooting.

Really?, who here has said that?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

From last thread

LE had nO reason to examine his hands, he had been shot in the leg reportedly.
These were 'independant' journalists in their own minds, its possible they didn't have press credentials either.
But presser was handled badly by Sheriff and FBI.
All journalists remarked on that.. all were tarred with same brush..

Answering hard questions is part of his job.
He didn't like the press coverage he had received.. but spacing out pressers and then throwing them at an hours notice is asking for trouble.
There was no good reason not to allow CNN to do their slot.. journos were also asked to be there by 10,15.. it was extremely short notice.


=========================

IMO of course they should have. In ten seconds someone concludes he is a victim and then he goes on vacation.

How would LE know that he does not need his hands checked out when he is 8 feet from the door of the biggest mass shooting in history.

That is just as not ok as declaring - out of the blue - 2 hours later - that it was sole actor.

IMO that is not an investigation

In a whole bunch of these it takes weeks to determine if there is a network or solo.

For some reason in this instance they were able to declare a lone wolf, before they even got in his room

and have stuck to that since they decided he was alone a couple of hours later

Have Le ever explained how they came to this conclusion with blinding speed?

Exactly how does a Sheriff do that in two hours ?

The scene had not been investigated when this dude is declaring this was a lone wolf.

Where is the evidence for that?

Please quit saying the security guard went on vacation when it has been reported that he stayed in Las Vegas to recuperate out of the spotlight after being shot. It is really beginning to look like a smear and at the moment he is a victim who has never been named as even a POI.

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[CARIIS]

Same link

Shell casings all over the floor

in the "leaked " pics in reality we
got to see actually a lot of some of the space

throught the door we saw aurouning areas but no shell casings

in the pic of the two nicely placed machine guns we had space all around but no shell casings

in the pic where the two chairs are nicely put together, to create a bassinet for the guns the guns are all nicely placed up on it so we can see all the guns all nice and neat. But there are no shells anywhere in that pic also

In the wide pic showing the body (with all intact and bloodless shirt and jeans and shoes ) we have a wide area there also no shell casings there

in an ironic way -- the gun nicely laid on his left leg, the perfect placed gun on a tripod out the door all matched up with nicely laid out two guns on the floor

just mo but I did not get any sense of mayhem, disorder, after a machine gun fires 1000 bullets and everything is clean and orderly

kinda reminded me a Burger King pic of thier Whooper -- all arranged making sure everything is seen

bizarre

moo

 

[trackhit]

has anyone else ever come forward as being a guest on the 32nd floor? Did they hear any gunfire?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

there is no evidence at all to suggest that it was either his decision or choice to renege. all evidence has pointed towards his boss, preventing the interview.

======================

imo

people are typically told to shut and vanish for a reason


the real question in this area is who and why so people think he needs to be guarded

needing 24/7 security means something

typically people don't need to be guarded if the only perp involved is dead

i would also tend to believe that people who for some reason need 27/7 security are not hanging out with the boy scouts!!

moo

People who are the focus of CT nuts may absolutely need security.

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[trackhit]

If anyone has seen SP's full postmortem pic- did you notice where the revolver was? It was about 8" above his head. If you shoot yourself in the head, the gun should go backwards- away from you- and should not be lying 8" above your head.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

has anyone else ever come forward as being a guest on the 32nd floor? Did they hear any gunfire?

I thought it was reported that one guy came out of his room and was told to go back inside.

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[Deleted member 158085]

If anyone has seen SP's full postmortem pic- did you notice where the revolver was? It was about 8" above his head. If you shoot yourself in the head, the gun should go backwards- away from you- and should not be lying 8" above your head.

And guns are always kicked away from a perp first thing, whether they are known to be dead or not. A picture would have been taken only after that.

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[Betty P]

I read that part. I am curious to know if this is all MGM properties? Just this one? All hotels in Vegas? Etc. I would think a LOT of crap happens in those hallways especially in Vegas. With parties etc. I really surprised. I mean regardless how much money they spend on security, getting up quickly to the 32nd floor by any human isn't as quick as a camera in a control room. JMO




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The article doesn't really specify which properties. Looking at the layout of MB, they have very long hallways in those 3 wings, so it seems plausible they would have a difficult time getting good camera view all the way to the end. Their goal is to see who is coming onto and leaving floors. Supplementing cameras at elevator points and crossings,etc. with security guard patrols and various kinds of alarms seemed to work pretty well for them as the alarm put Campos and Schuck in the area fairly quickly. The problem seemed to be in getting LE in place quickly.

Probably a cost cutting move, as it probably costs a lot of money to hire people to watch them. Article says MB already has 3,000 cameras. Adding, say, 4 more cameras to each floor in each wing would be 43x4x3=516 more cameras. Not sure I agree with them, but it's corporate cost-cutting thinking.

 

[kittythehare]

do u have a link ??

Here you go
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local...ter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/
sheriff also suspected he had help at this point in link below


[FONT=&quot]Mr Lombardo told reporters: “You look at the weapon obtaining, the different amounts of Tannerite [explosives] available, do you think this was all accomplished on his own?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] “On face value, you’ve got to make the assumption he had to have some help at some point, and we want to ensure that that’s the answer.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-fuel-tanks-mandalay-bay-hotel-a7983921.html
http://uk.businessinsider.com/las-v...-fuel-tanks-stephen-paddock-2017-10?r=US&IR=T shows long range.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-shooting-pierced-jet-fuel-tank-idUSKBN1CC020
there are also close up images of tanks'
damage but i cannot find them right now. i did see them though and the damage was minimal which made me question the theory that he was a genius.[/FONT]

 

[kittythehare]

If anyone has seen SP's full postmortem pic- did you notice where the revolver was? It was about 8" above his head. If you shoot yourself in the head, the gun should go backwards- away from you- and should not be lying 8" above your head.

Well theres some confusion whether he allegedly shot himself in head or through his mouth.. then theres generally a massive spasm upon impact which can cause a gun to fly.
The pics did look a tad staged, okay.. but thats possibly how it went down.. the gun resting on his legs is another anomaly..
Coroner has to come up with the answers for that one.

 

[Betty P]

If anyone has seen SP's full postmortem pic- did you notice where the revolver was? It was about 8" above his head. If you shoot yourself in the head, the gun should go backwards- away from you- and should not be lying 8" above your head.

Here's a link to a research article on the topic. Location of the gun post mortem varies according to a number of factors

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10208326

The location of the gun following suicidal gunshot wound was studied by reviewing 574 such deaths in which the scene was investigated by a medical examiner investigator and the body was examined at the Bexar County Medical Examiner's Office in San Antonio, Texas. The position of the gun could not be established in 76 cases. In the remaining 498 cases, the gun remained in the deceased's hand in 24% of the cases. In 69% of the cases, the gun was on or near the body but not in the hand (i.e., touching the body or within 30 cm of the body). The gun was found >30 cm from the body in the remaining 7% of cases. In the case of handguns, the gun was found in the hand in 25.7% of individuals. For individuals using long guns, the firearm was in the hand of the decedent in 19.5% of cases. The gun had a greater chance of remaining in the deceased's hand if the person was lying or sitting when the gunshot wound was received. Variables such as gender of the individual, wound location, and caliber of handgun were not significant in predicting whether the gun stayed in the hand after a suicidal gunshot wound.

If the deceased was standing at the time, it was more likely the gun would fall out of their hand. It seems in most cases, the gun falls out of the hand as they fall.

JMO, doesn't sound unusual, especially if he was standing at the time and fell backward.

 

[CoolJ]

The article doesn't really specify which properties. Looking at the layout of MB, they have very long hallways in those 3 wings, so it seems plausible they would have a difficult time getting good camera view all the way to the end. Their goal is to see who is coming onto and leaving floors. Supplementing cameras at elevator points and crossings,etc. with security guard patrols and various kinds of alarms seemed to work pretty well for them as the alarm put Campos and Schuck in the area fairly quickly. The problem seemed to be in getting LE in place quickly.

Probably a cost cutting move, as it probably costs a lot of money to hire people to watch them. Article says MB already has 3,000 cameras. Adding, say, 4 more cameras to each floor in each wing would be 43x4x3=516 more cameras. Not sure I agree with them, but it's corporate cost-cutting thinking.

IF there are no cameras in MBay. I doubt the reason is to cut costs. I don't know what the reason would be, but the costs would not be significant at all.
What i am researching right now is the question..... Do these 23 hotels "officially" not have cameras in hallways? But "unofficially", depends on who you ask.... if you get what i am saying....

 

[CARIIS]

I bet folks like delta swat fbi etc etc guys are trained how to calculate assault weapon machine gun trajectoires and things

I would have to think the math skills are different than pulling a lever on a video thing on the bar...

someone with extensive military training possibly

just a notion