NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #8

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GGE said:
He passed the poly question "did you know about the escape beforehand".

Nobody has said a word about what other things they asked him and how he answered.

JMO that's important.
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Yes, yet DA was non-stop about pushing to his media connections to get it out there that Palmer had passed the poly

^^That didn't come out until later
 
epiphany said:
BC Tillie was in love with both of the inmates. Some sort of polyamorous relationship between the 2 cons and the seamstress

and BC the DA and Gov say so: Tillie plotted to have her husband murdered so she could spend the rest of her life on the run in towns in Mexico, scrounging for food, cleaning, constantly looking over her shoulder, cooking, learning Spanish and having loads of sex with both cons
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Why wasn't this woman also charged with rape? She confessed that she was having sex with Matt. It is against the law for a prison worker to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with an inmate.
 
Greater Than said:
Why wasn't this woman also charged with rape? She confessed that she was having sex with Matt. It is against the law for a prison worker to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with an inmate.
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When consensual, why would she or any DOC employee be charged with rape?

Dismissed, forced out, fired etc IF only "crime."
 
Greater Than said:
RSBM

I don't think the pills were in lieu of killing him. Lyle told Matt Lauer that when Matt and Sweat told her to pick them up, Tillie told them she never goes anywhere without her husband. So they allegedly told her they'd give her pills to give to him which would knock him out (so he would be asleep and she could leave without him to pick them up) and then they'd return to kill him. Lyle claims Tillie decided she didn't want anything to happen to him, so she backed out at the last minute.
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I wonder how Lyle feels now...
 
human said:
This discussion has been on here many times. In my not humble opinion, no baby is born bad. It is parenting. I have not seen one example of a killer that was not raised in hell. Not one.

And I love how parents blame their children for the problems. Automatic red flag for me.
Click to expand...

I'm one of four children born to the same parents. I'm the oldest, with a brother born two years after me, and another brother and sister born after him. The brother closest in age to me, according to my mother, was born "angry." He was a difficult baby to mother according to her - not wanting to be held etc. As a toddler and in early childhood he would find himself in trouble more often than not - doing childish things he knew he wasn't supposed to do - resulting in his being yelled at or sent to his room for punishment. Interestingly, when he would do something good and my mother would praise him, he would immediately turn around and do something bad. As he grew into his teen years, he was constantly in trouble, my parents knew every principal of every school he went to as a result. He started fires, he tormented fellow students, he stole money, he tried to rape me, the list goes on and on. As an adult he committed crimes for which he ultimately was sentenced to some prison time but for whatever reason they allowed him to be free before it was time to turn himself in to the prison. He went on the run for years to avoid that, bragging that he was playing cards with cops who he would kill without a thought if they figured out who he was and tried to arrest him. Interestingly, his son is almost an exact version of my brother - only worse - having been in prison twice now before he was even 25 - and my nephew has the most loving mother one could ever have. So I do think some people are just born "bad" and no amount of love or good parenting is going to make a huge difference - my brother and his son both are sociopathic at the very least - they know how to manipulate and to get what they need from people - but love? That's not something they understand or really even seem to want unless it suits their purposes at the time. MOO
 
Paulas88 said:
I wonder how Lyle feels now...
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I've wondered that too. He certainly must be overwhelmed with emotion - I feel just awful for him. How does one even begin to process so many layers of deviousness? I hope he has lots of support around him.
 
So if Sweat admitted she was in on the murder of her husband she will get conspiracy to commit murder which is another 10 years. Tilly could be put away for life if these charges go through.
Sweat absolutely knows he can talk to the FBI, he has probably thought about this long and hard while on the lam. He is in an advantageous position now with the Feds wanting to know how an escaped convict thinks. Extra food rations, more movies....whatever it is they will offer him in exchange for info.

The CO's and the police do not want to be embarrassed like this again. In retrospect this was a terribly planned escape. They blew a five hour lead, depended on an anxiety ridden old lady, left themselves in the wilderness with no skills, and had no real end game that made sense.
This escape could have been disastrous if they would have hopped a train or stolen a car. It does not sound like 2 years of training to me, more like 2 months. It will become the stuff of legends though as no one had broken out. Sweat will start scheming tomorrow, that is all he has to live for.
 
GGE said:
Yeah I posted that a couple of full threads ago but its' still worth repeating. It's NOT about Clinton Correctional but it's a great read anyway IMO.

$300 cigs and $1000 cellphones are real. It's easy to hide 2 Tracfones in your pocket as a guard knowing they're worth a grand apiece, easier than helping get that one painting shipped and sold on ebay, dealing with ebay taking their cut, paypal taking their cut, transferring the proceeds into your own bank account (leaving a paper trail)... so Palmer helping sell that painting for $2000 doesn't make sense, if it was just for money, because that article details how many other options he had. JMO
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I do know in Texas prisons cell phones are a big problem.

As for how inmates are treated, it made me wonder if there are political leanings in prisons just like the states tend to be red or blue? Here in Texas my sister in law has been in and out of the system for drugs 15 times at least, So much for the 3 strikes law, anyway, one time she was in for 9 months at Gainesville or Gatesville sorry I can't remember which one it is for the ladies. She always is on her best behavior for these stents so as to get the jobs that allow her inside the a/c areas of the jail like the library and offices. On this particular trip she cleaned the cell of Yolanda Saldevar who killed the singer Selena. When she enters the cell she is ordered to not speak to the inmate and the inmate is ordered to face the wall on her knees and not to even look at my sister in law as she cleans up after her. Sis said every time she did this job Saldevar was on her knees crying and that she had a hard time keeping her balance as she has gotten old and fat. So they appear to have great control over this prisoner at least. She is of course a high profile inmate and I was told many of the fellow inmates would love to slit her throat.

At night she slept in a large gym style un air conditioned area with hundreds of other inmates and her bunk mate was the black chick that ran over the homelss guy and left him in the windshield to die. She said that gal was a RN who was high on X at the time and was extremely remorseful for her crime.

Texas being a red state appears to me to be pretty brutal to their prisoners, so i was wondering if the more liberal states like new York may treat their inmates better ?
 
human said:
This discussion has been on here many times. In my not humble opinion, no baby is born bad. It is parenting. I have not seen one example of a killer that was not raised in hell. Not one.

And I love how parents blame their children for the problems. Automatic red flag for me.
Click to expand...

There is such a thing as mental illness that has zero to do with parenting. Matt sounds like a product of his environment, but from what I've read, Sweat sounds like he has some sort of chemical imbalance to me. He's been described as having schizophrenia-type behaviors as a young child.

Not all parents of "bad kids" are blameless, but not all parents are at fault either.
 
cinsbythesea said:
I'm one of four children born to the same parents. I'm the oldest, with a brother born two years after me, and another brother and sister born after him. The brother closest in age to me, according to my mother, was born "angry." He was a difficult baby to mother according to her - not wanting to be held etc. As a toddler and in early childhood he would find himself in trouble more often than not - doing childish things he knew he wasn't supposed to do - resulting in his being yelled at or sent to his room for punishment. Interestingly, when he would do something good and my mother would praise him, he would immediately turn around and do something bad. As he grew into his teen years, he was constantly in trouble, my parents knew every principal of every school he went to as a result. He started fires, he tormented fellow students, he stole money, he tried to rape me, the list goes on and on. As an adult he committed crimes for which he ultimately was sentenced to some prison time but for whatever reason they allowed him to be free before it was time to turn himself in to the prison. He went on the run for years to avoid that, bragging that he was playing cards with cops who he would kill without a thought if they figured out who he was and tried to arrest him. Interestingly, his son is almost an exact version of my brother - only worse - having been in prison twice now before he was even 25 - and my nephew has the most loving mother one could ever have. So I do think some people are just born "bad" and no amount of love or good parenting is going to make a huge difference - my brother and his son both are sociopathic at the very least - they know how to manipulate and to get what they need from people - but love? That's not something they understand or really even seem to want unless it suits their purposes at the time. MOO
Click to expand...

If you are interested, you may want to talk to a person who works with children. one thing-- yelling, punishment and praise. Methods that are not effective. The other issues sound like possible sex abuse.
 
No time to adequately catch up as I post here from Italy! I'm beyond thrilled that Sweat was caught!! Great news!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dr. Watson said:
The CO's and the police do not want to be embarrassed like this again. In retrospect this was a terribly planned escape. They blew a five hour lead, depended on an anxiety ridden old lady, left themselves in the wilderness with no skills, and had no real end game that made sense.
This escape could have been disastrous if they would have hopped a train or stolen a car. It does not sound like 2 years of training to me, more like 2 months. It will become the stuff of legends though as no one had broken out. Sweat will start scheming tomorrow, that is all he has to live for.
Click to expand...

In one of the articles linked in this thread, it was revealed that David Sweat did have some wilderness-survival skills when he was enrolled in a juvenile program designed to keep him out of trouble. So, it appears that at least Sweat did have a little knowledge of life in the woods. Clearly, though, he stayed housed in cabins and other shelters, given his rather healthy condition when captured.
 
johunt said:
Not sure if this has been posted yet but watch the guy behind the news reporter....
http://www.npr.org/2015/06/22/415800196/after-prison-break-at-dannemora-viral-video-raises-questions

Maybe why the FBI is investigating...

ETA - This is apparently how they send food up to CO even from resteraunts but still seems weird, I thought everything had to go through security. I guess not.
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Oh My Gosh!


Caught right on national T.V., during an interview regarding another aspect of this whole situation!!!

Ya can't make this stuff up!!! :gasp:
 
human said:
Wow wow wow. This is a must read. The problems seem insurmountable.
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There are always bad apples, and underpaying, under training employees in any profession is always going to produce systemic problems, IMO. That plus the sheer size of the US prison population and the huge number of violent inmates equals an inevitable flow of stories about things going bad and wrong.


From a report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2013 (stats are as of 12/13/2013):
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p13.pdf

Total number of prisoners in the US ( state, private, and federal facilities): 1,574,700

Percentage of prisoners in STATE PRISONS serving sentences for violent crimes (includes murder, assault, sexual assault, and burglary): 53.8%

Total number of state prisoners convicted of violent crimes: 707,500

Percentage of those violent offenders convicted of murder: 12.7%

So, in 2013, state prisons held 55,708 convicted murderers out of a total of 707,500 inmates in prison for violent offenses.
------------------------------------------------------

In New York State (NY correctional system report, as of 1/2014)
http://www.doccs.ny.gov/Research/annotate.asp


Total state prison inmates: 53,565

Percentage convicted of violent crimes: 65.5%

Number of inmates convicted of murder: 6,975

Percentage serving LWOP: 1% (256 inmates)

Percentage serving Life-Max: 18% (9,751 inmates)
 
Jean C:

Superintendent of CCF And

Deputy Superintendent of CCF

Both Placed on Leave
 
GGE said:
Yeah but she knows her husband can't read. She told him something, she told LE something else. We already know that from hundreds of articles shared over the past 3 weeks. Almost everything she confessed to LE is contradictory to what she told Lyle.

IMO he cant read so he doesnt know anything that isn't told to him and he can easiliy ignore what he doesn't want to believe for the same reason.

But she CONFESSED to sleeping with Matt and Sweat, then told Lyle she hadn't and he went on tv telling Matt Lauer that she never cheated on him. Come on.

JMO
Click to expand...



Wait...are you saying he literally can't read?????
 
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