NY NY - Chaim Weiss, 15, Long Beach, 1 Nov 1986

[jemini]

i have a theory but need to have some info first did the doors have some sort of glass on them? like you could see in the room almost like classrooms but not a full glass window like a small half window where you could see inside the door room to know that there is only 1 bed or 2 beds. if so he could have been looking in the windows at all the rooms to find one that was a singular room. he chose the 3rd floor because maybe he jumped out the window thus why the window was open? it would have been easier for him to jump out then risk being cought by going back down the stairs. not sure how high the building was and if jumping from the 3rd floor would have caused death or minor damages to the person jumping?

I agree. Could the person have entered and exited through the window? Did this boy have a secret life/people that no one knew about? It's strange, not sharing information for a religious belief or polygraph came up with nothing? Maybe so. How far did they extend their interview outside the school?

 

[eman77]

i have a theory but need to have some info first did the doors have some sort of glass on them? like you could see in the room almost like classrooms but not a full glass window like a small half window where you could see inside the door room to know that there is only 1 bed or 2 beds. if so he could have been looking in the windows at all the rooms to find one that was a singular room. he chose the 3rd floor because maybe he jumped out the window thus why the window was open? it would have been easier for him to jump out then risk being cought by going back down the stairs. not sure how high the building was and if jumping from the 3rd floor would have caused death or minor damages to the person jumping?

I would also like to hear about the doors.

Here is my rebuttal to your window theory. The coroner reported that the body was moved 45 minutes after death. This means that

A. The killer stayed in the room with the body for at least 45 minutes (unlikely since he would have had to remain silent the whole time)
B. The killer left and came back.

Why would the killer jump out a 3rd story window (which is a guaranteed injury) when he had enough nerve to come back a 2nd time?

Let's say for whatever reason he did jump out the 3rd story window. Either the first time he came in, the 2nd time he came in, or both times. What did he do with the knife? Did he really jump out the window with a bloody knife on his person? Maybe he dropped the knife out the window first, then jumped after? In that case, why wasn't there any blood found in the yard from the knife which surely would have been covered in blood. The knife the police did find in the yard was reported to not be the weapon used in the crime.

Just does not seem to fit. Jumping from a third story window once or twice could have made enough noise to wake somebody up. Plus a likely injury would have made escape more difficult for the UNSUB.

To see how difficult this would have been, please take a look at the overhead view I linked to on Google Maps at the top of page 3, then switch to satellite view.

 

[Stella]

Two years before Chaim's murder, another boy at the same school commited suicide by hanging himself in a shower stall. Does anyone know of a motive as to why he would take his own life or if he left a suicide note?

 

[Ausgirl]

Why would the killer jump out a 3rd story window

I agree, jumping is unlikely.

Which is why I'd like to know the layout of that fire escape mentioned in the reports, which Chaim and his friends would sit on, exiting his room via the window.

It stands to reason that a fire escape had -some- kind of ground access, or it would be entirely pointless in its intended purpose, yeah?

And the dorm Chaim was in was torn down, wasn't it?

 

[brit1981]

I think there is too little infomration about this case to make a good judgement on what happened. But IF the fire escape made it possible to leave his room via the window then that might be the reason he was targeted. Whoever did this came armed, so it make sit seem unlikely an arguement with a student or teacher suddenly got out of hand. But it was halloween, perhaps local kids/troublemakers got themselves hyped up and dared someone to break in and attack a student steal soemthing. One can just imagien the "all jewish people are rich" "all boarding school kids are rich" attitude that could have been held. So one of the kids nastier than the others is armed to show off and breaks in via the window. When in the bedroom Chaim fights back, or the intruder has such a nasty temper he just kills him to prove how tough he is to his friends. He then leaves, and perhaps a bit later he comes back to gloat/calms down and realises what he has done and goes back in a panic to see if it really happened, /or his friends go to see if he was telling the truth. I wonder if there had been a lot of vandalsim that night in the area.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have been dwelling on this case and have come to the opinion that it is a ritual killing associated with some cult and Halloween. I have come to believe that eman77 is right about Chaim being targeted for being Jewish, and rich. I also think there is some loose connection to his father. I think this was a ritual cult killing (offering) in "honor" of Halloween. I think if you investigate the known cults in close proximity to the school, you find your killer.

 

[Ausgirl]

I don't see much that was cultish about it, though? Unless I've missed something?

Lots of people die on every day of the year, and some are bound to die on those dates 'traditionally' associated with Satanic activity though their deaths have nothing to do with it.

Chaim was murdered in his bed. All the wounds are on the same side of his head, and he died instantly from the first wound, which was violent enough to drive the weapon into his head and pass through to sever his spinal cord, killing him instantly. There was no sign of defensive wounds.

So it seems most likely he was hit quickly and quietly, while he lay asleep. There's no occult paraphenalia around, nothing to suggest occult ritual.

There's the matter of the second candle, which appeared in his room a few days later (IIRC) - which a lot of folks think is the result of an elderly rabbi forgetting he'd already lit one for the day, seeing as the room was under watch and security at the school was understandably tight after the murder.

I'd be happy to reconsider if there's anything at all more than a probable coincidence of date to go by.

Here's something that's kind of nagging at me, though -- Chaim was seen reading in the hallway around 1am. The reason he was doing so was because there was a general lights-out rule or something in the bedrooms (though I recall it had something to do with the actual lights? Must verify this..) So if boys wanted to study after that, they had to go out into the hallway.

Which means Chaim's room was probably quite dark. How'd the killer see? It just seems a significant detail, to me.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I see the "extra" stab wounds (above and beyond the first fatal blow) associated with fulfillment of some sort of ritual. The number is significant, but to what I do not know. Combine that with halloween and a highly profiled ethnic group....that's how I come to my hypothesis. Your question about the visibility....how full was the moon that night?

 

[Stella]

I don't see much that was cultish about it, though? Unless I've missed something?

Lots of people die on every day of the year, and some are bound to die on those dates 'traditionally' associated with Satanic activity though their deaths have nothing to do with it.

Chaim was murdered in his bed. All the wounds are on the same side of his head, and he died instantly from the first wound, which was violent enough to drive the weapon into his head and pass through to sever his spinal cord, killing him instantly. There was no sign of defensive wounds.

So it seems most likely he was hit quickly and quietly, while he lay asleep. There's no occult paraphenalia around, nothing to suggest occult ritual.

There's the matter of the second candle, which appeared in his room a few days later (IIRC) - which a lot of folks think is the result of an elderly rabbi forgetting he'd already lit one for the day, seeing as the room was under watch and security at the school was understandably tight after the murder.

I'd be happy to reconsider if there's anything at all more than a probable coincidence of date to go by.

Here's something that's kind of nagging at me, though -- Chaim was seen reading in the hallway around 1am. The reason he was doing so was because there was a general lights-out rule or something in the bedrooms (though I recall it had something to do with the actual lights? Must verify this..) So if boys wanted to study after that, they had to go out into the hallway.

Which means Chaim's room was probably quite dark. How'd the killer see? It just seems a significant detail, to me.

Perhaps the killer came into Chaim's room WHILE he was sitting/studying in the hallway or during a visit to the lavatory. If he hid in the closet or behind a piece of furniture for 15-30 minutes, the killer would've gotten what is known as "dark adapted eyes"; he would be able to see clearly in the dark as his eyes would've gotten used to it.

 

[eman77]

Perhaps the killer came into Chaim's room WHILE he was sitting/studying in the hallway or during a visit to the lavatory. If he hid in the closet or behind a piece of furniture for 15-30 minutes, the killer would've gotten what is known as "dark adapted eyes"; he would be able to see clearly in the dark as his eyes would've gotten used to it.

I like this theory. We don't know how dark the room was but Chaim was known to be the last one to bed that night. The killer could have sneaked in and saw. But we don't know the layout of the rooms so we can't say for sure that Chaim would not have spotted him from the hallway. But it would explain on a deeper level why he was targeted.

But there are also holes with this theory. For example, even if the killer sneaked in without Chaim noticing and then waited and waited until Chaim went to bed, how did he know Chaim did not have any roommates? How did he know to wait long enough that Chaim did his pre-bed ritual, changed into pajamas, and then was asleep.

But interesting suggestion.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I keep thinking of Chaim's beautiful smiling face. It would be very helpful to have more information on his family. Are the parents still living? What is their theory on this murder? What does the cold case detective think? The other students, his close friends? So much isn't being said. If we had more data, I believe we could go through a better process of elimination and get closer to a target.

 

[eman77]

I keep thinking of Chaim's beautiful smiling face. It would be very helpful to have more information on his family. Are the parents still living? What is their theory on this murder? What does the cold case detective think? The other students, his close friends? So much isn't being said. If we had more data, I believe we could go through a better process of elimination and get closer to a target.

I highly suggest you go to the thread linked to earlier. In that thread we have many posts from real former classmates and friends of other former classmates who present their theories and lots of information about how things really were back then.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I haven't forgotten this case, and think of Chaim's sweet face smiling from his photo. Even after all these years, and to me a stranger, it's amazing how someone's spirit can still be so strong. It stands to reason that someone there that night saw or knows what happened. I pray that the years have given them bravery to step forward and do the right thing. I'm sure it would give them tremendous peace of mind. Praying for Chaim, and prayers that the truth be revealed.

 

[liz b.]

I remember Chaim's father in a TV interview a few years after Chaim's murder. He seemed like a really nice man. I remember that he was interviewed in his office, and,for some reason, I keep thinking he worked on Madison Avenue.Or that he was somehow connected to Madison Avenue...IDK, it was a long time ago, and I cannot remember more... JMO

 

[fruity]

I haven't heard of this case before. Very interesting! I'd planned on taking my dogs for a big walk, but maybe they'll be happy sitting with (ON) me while I read .....

 

[liz b.]

I was reading that Anton Weiss, Chaim's father, sued the Yeshiva for 15 million dollars. The school settled the lawsuit. Mr.Weiss sued because he believed that the school was negligent, and he also believed that the school authorities were not as open with LE as they should have been... Mr. Weiss,it was reported, eventually grew dissatisfied with LE's investigation.He believed that LE had been "outsmarted " from the very beginning.

I also read that Chaim's attack was described as "frenzied ". It seems that there were two earlier murders in that neighborhood, with strikingly similar MO's to Chaim's murder. Although the other victims were apparently elderly. Mr. Weiss said that he had been unaware of these murders when he enrolled his son at that particular Yeshiva, and he said he would not have sent his son there if he had known...

This is so sad...I'm going to try to find out more...

 

[liz b.]

I like this theory. We don't know how dark the room was but Chaim was known to be the last one to bed that night. The killer could have sneaked in and saw. But we don't know the layout of the rooms so we can't say for sure that Chaim would not have spotted him from the hallway. But it would explain on a deeper level why he was targeted.

But there are also holes with this theory. For example, even if the killer sneaked in without Chaim noticing and then waited and waited until Chaim went to bed, how did he know Chaim did not have any roommates? How did he know to wait long enough that Chaim did his pre-bed ritual, changed into pajamas, and then was asleep.

But interesting suggestion.

BBM : because Chaim's room had only 1 bed in it ?

 

[Daisy1975]

Wow this is one of the scariest cases I have ever read about and I thought I had read some pretty bad ones.

I wonder if any fingerprints or any DNA was recovered from the scene at all?

It's very frustrating how so much of the information available is conflicting or inaccurate. I wish we had the information on just how solid the Polish janitor's alibi was. If witnesses placed him on the base, where the base was located and whether or not he had an available window to commit the crime, etc.

It's strange to me that one student claims he was openly anti-semetic and violent to some of the students (slamming them against the wall) yet another claims no incidents with him and that he and his family didn't even speak english.

 

[necco]

My thoughts on the Yeshiva student sitting looking out at the water:

I don't think this has anything to do with Chaim's death. Let's assume for a moment that he was definitely a Yeshiva student. He may have been a devout teenage boy at a yeshiva, one who studied the torah and dressed modestly and reflective of his religious beliefs. You know what the most important part of that description of him is? Teenage boy. Jew or gentile, devout or lapsed, a teenage boy is a teenage boy. There are TONS of reasons he could have been sitting there staring at the water:
-A bad grade.
-Brain full from too much studying.
-Pining for a girl.
-Roommate snores so he went for an early morning walk since he couldn't use electricity because it was shabbat.
-General teen angst

As for why he didn't come forward? Maybe he didn't realize he was the boy. Maybe he didn't hear about the request for him to come forward. Maybe he broke school rules by being off campus and didn't want to get in trouble and since he knew nothing about Chaim's murder, what would be the point?

 

[WI1987]

The Nassau County Police Dept. has announced that they are reopening the murder investigation:
www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/nassau-cops-reopen-1986-slaying-case-of-chaim-weiss-1.5315401

I hope this time they can bring the killer(s) to justice. Chaim deserves it.