NY NY - Chaim Weiss, 15, Long Beach, 1 Nov 1986

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
The boy seen staring out over the boardwalk... why do they think he was specifically a student at the school rather than someone from the neighborhood? Maybe he never realized anyone was looking for him as he did not attend the school?

Did boys in the other dorms know of the broken lock?

Since Chaim was sick and on antibiotics, after he finally fell asleep that night there is a good chance he slept heavily as sick people sometimes do. Another boy heard his door open and close and woke up for a minute. Chaim wouldn't have done that. If this wasn't personal, that might be why the killer chose him.
 
As far as the ritual death observances, I have to agree I do not think any were necessarily present. I can think of pretty easy explanations for all of them...

The moved aside blinds allowed access to open the window. These blinds being moved might also have let in a little light from outside so the killer could see. The killer might not have known how the blinds worked or may have been concerned the blinds would make some noise.

The open window may have been used to get rid of some item used in the crime or it may have allowed the killer to remain in contact with an accomplice outside. Or, it might have been done to let in noise from the outside. This might help disguise the noise the killer was making as regular night noise from outside.

Chaim being moved to the floor seems most logically a part of committing the murder.. or possibly done when the killer was looking for some item.

The only element that seems to have any religious significance is the candle. And there are plenty of people who say that the candle was placed in the room by a rabbi after Chaim's murder was discovered and police had been inside the room.

I am also still thinking about the boy who heard his door open and close. I wonder, did someone occasionally look in on the students? Was this a mundane occurrence? Or was it really unusual that anyone would open a student's door at night?
 
Could this case have had any bearing on what happened to Chaim?


By Michael O'keeffe / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Monday, July 8, 2013, 7:55 PM


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...0-million-sex-abuse-lawsuit-article-1.1393327

" Nineteen former students at Yeshiva University High School have filed a bombshell $380 million lawsuit against the prestigious Jewish institution claiming horrific acts of sexual abuse that went unchecked for two decades at the Manhattan school.

"Yeshiva University High School held itself out as an exemplary Jewish secondary school when in fact it was allowing known sexual predators to roam the school at will seeking other victims," said attorney Kevin Mulhearn, who filed the suit on behalf of the 19 plaintiffs. "Childhood sexual abuse in the Orthodox Jewish community can no longer be condoned and excused.”

One victim claims administrators ignored his protests when he told them a Judaic studies teacher sodomized him with a toothbrush. Other victims — the children of Holocaust survivors — say a former principal persuaded them not to tell their parents after he sexually assaulted them because their mothers and fathers had already suffered through so much"

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...abuse-lawsuit-article-1.1393327#ixzz2dfRj00nz
 
The above leads me to think that Yeshiva students will indeed speak up if a wrong has been done, even if the crime is committed by" one of their own", imo..
 
I've been gone a while and caught up on this thread. I've read "longisland"'s posts several times over since he has the insider information.

I looked at the Google map of the dorm he linked for a while. What do you notice about it? There are no signs anywhere indicating it is a dorm room for Orthodox Jews. It is also smack in the middle of a residential area. It does not stand out for any reason other than it is three stories tall and looks different from the other houses.

I think this rules out the theory of drunk idiots on Halloween spontaneously committing a hate crime. UNLESS they already knew that Jews reside there. Who can possibly know that this random building is a dorm room for Orthodox Jews? PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE AREA OR FREQUENT THE AREA OFTEN. Someone around the three blocks between the school and the dorms.

They couldn't Google search an Orthodox Jewish dorm location back then. Even if they looked up a school in the yellow pages, they would not have gotten the location of the dorm. Only someone who knew kids were staying there could have committed this crime.


Also, I am not sold on the killers knowing the father. I apologize for being politically incorrect, but a very large percentage of Jewish parents are very successful doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc. If you pick a random Jewish kid out from the crowd, there is a good chance he comes from a well-off family. Especially in Long Island. I know this as I am Jewish myself and have gone to Jewish schools when I was younger.

My guess is that this crime was committed by a stranger, who is often in the area but does not live there, who had seen a large group of Jewish boys walk into that building sometime during the day or night. Since it looks like a high-income area, it could be some sort of maintenance worker who was working on a house at the time. Cold cases that stay cold almost always involve a killer who had a minimal relationship with the victim.

Other suspects include the Polish workers, but come on, you don't think the cops keyed in on them? It sounds like the cops turned over every rock, going so far as give lie detectors TO THE KIDS!

Can this case be solved without a confession? Maybe, but I think the focus needs to be outside the usual suspects, and onto the people who have NOT been suspected the last 27 years.
 
I've been gone a while and caught up on this thread. I've read "longisland"'s posts several times over since he has the insider information.

I looked at the Google map of the dorm he linked for a while. What do you notice about it? There are no signs anywhere indicating it is a dorm room for Orthodox Jews. It is also smack in the middle of a residential area. It does not stand out for any reason other than it is three stories tall and looks different from the other houses.

I think this rules out the theory of drunk idiots on Halloween spontaneously committing a hate crime. UNLESS they already knew that Jews reside there. Who can possibly know that this random building is a dorm room for Orthodox Jews? PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE AREA OR FREQUENT THE AREA OFTEN. Someone around the three blocks between the school and the dorms.

They couldn't Google search an Orthodox Jewish dorm location back then. Even if they looked up a school in the yellow pages, they would not have gotten the location of the dorm. Only someone who knew kids were staying there could have committed this crime.


Also, I am not sold on the killers knowing the father. I apologize for being politically incorrect, but a very large percentage of Jewish parents are very successful doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc. If you pick a random Jewish kid out from the crowd, there is a good chance he comes from a well-off family. Especially in Long Island. I know this as I am Jewish myself and have gone to Jewish schools when I was younger.

My guess is that this crime was committed by a stranger, who is often in the area but does not live there, who had seen a large group of Jewish boys walk into that building sometime during the day or night. Since it looks like a high-income area, it could be some sort of maintenance worker who was working on a house at the time. Cold cases that stay cold almost always involve a killer who had a minimal relationship with the victim.

Other suspects include the Polish workers, but come on, you don't think the cops keyed in on them? It sounds like the cops turned over every rock, going so far as give lie detectors TO THE KIDS!

Can this case be solved without a confession? Maybe, but I think the focus needs to be outside the usual suspects, and onto the people who have NOT been suspected the last 27 years.

Anything is possible, but it doesn't seem random to me. How do you explain the apparent awareness of tradition with the window open, the candle left, and so forth? Seems like some remorse or nod to tradition? Could this be an "eye for an eye" sort of thing? Some warped retribution for a perceived grievance? That's the only thing that makes sense to me aside from some deranged random person....but I can't shake the feeling of a connection, especially due to some of the "tradition" clues.
 
Wasn't the candle lit some time later, by one of the Rabbis? I'm sure I read it was, or that was the explanation given for it..
 
Wasn't the candle lit some time later, by one of the Rabbis? I'm sure I read it was, or that was the explanation given for it..

Im not clear as to whether the rabbi lighting a candle was confirmed or not. I pray for thus family. They desearve an answer. Let us hope someone will do the right thing and provide sone answers.
 
It is offensive to us all when a 15 year old boy, 15!, is brutally murdered whilst lying in his own bed in his own room at school for no apparent reason at all!
His parents must have been suffering terribly all these years not having any idea who, what or why this happened to their beloved son.
Did this change relations within the community, alter the parent's business in any way, allowed someone to succeed who otherwise may have " come second' to Chaim?

Did someone unbalanced, not get invited to his Bar Mitzvah. and stewed about it for a couple of years?

Did any students or teachers leave the school after the murder?
Have any since been under suspicion for pedophilia, or any come out as being gay, or at least are privately known as such?

Did someone enter the room with the intention of committing a sex assault on a sleeping, sick teen but he fought back and an unintended or accidental homicide occurred?
Who do the family secretly think was responsible for this cowardly murder?
Any chance at all a female did it or" ordered "it done?

imo.
 
I remember when this case first aired on Unsolved Mysteries. It disturbed me very much and I have found myself thinking about since then.

It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of information out there regarding this case, despite how brutal and brazen it was.

From what I have read though:

1. It is hard for me to buy into the theory that this was just some random psychopath who happened upon the school and decided to go and kill a young Jewish boy because of his hatred for Jews. Surely, there are less brazen ways to inflict harm on a person if it was a hate crime that would be a heck of a lot less risky. I mean, why would some random person wander to the third floor--and why that particular room--one of only two that housed just a single student? It seems this person knew exactly where he was going...

2. The window being open is rather odd, particularly if it couldn't serve as an escape or entry route (third floor and I read in a previous post that the fire escape was attached to a different room). But what is more puzzling is if this truly was a random person, I truly cannot see this person risk coming back to the scene almost an hour later to move the body for whatever reason. This would be INCREDIBLY risky unless the person stayed in the room with the dead body for that long?

3. The viciousness and brutality of the crime, which was obviously understated in the US episode is troubling. The first blow killed Chaim, who why 11 or 12 more stabs? Someone stated that the room was a bloodbath, with skull and brain pieces everywhere--hard to believe nobody heard anything. But more to the point: this was a rage filled killing and speaks to someone knowing the victim and being extremely angry with him for some reason.

4. I know several people were polygraphed and passed, but please remember these tests are in know way accurate; I wish people would not put so much stake in them.

5. Maybe someone can clarify: I know there was a candle that was lit that was put in Chaim's room. The Unsolved Mystery episode stated that ONE was placed in by a rabbi after the murder, but a SECOND one mysteriously appeared and that is the one that nobody could identify how it got there. Is that true? Why wouldn't someone admit putting it there? Maybe the candle, the window being open and the body being on the floor (lowest point) are all coincidental, but is seems like a wild coincidence if they are.

Overall, my impression is this murder was committed by someone (a) who knew Chaim and (b) was familiar enough with the dorm to know exactly where he was going and how easily he could go undetected. It still baffles me that nobody heard or saw a thing. I just pray that one day the monster who did this is caught. Definitely a disturbing crime.
 
It really is terrible what happened to Chaim.

There is no logical motive for it... if someone was mad at his father, why not attack him personally? If theyjust hated Jewish people, why Chaim's room? if it was to keep him silent for some reason, why the overkill?

Maybe it was another kid at the school. Maybe a hatchet was the best weapon he could get his hands on? Maybe he did a few ritualistic things because he was a kid at the school and knew a little bit about it?

Someone did say the ritual for people who have died is more complicated and only a rabbi would probably know it.

I don't think a random person who hated Jewish people would know or care about death traditions. It could still be such a person if those things could be explained another way. but, it still seems weird they'd go all of the way to Chaim's room.

also.. with anyone you do have to wonder about the hatchet.
 
I remember when this case first aired on Unsolved Mysteries. It disturbed me very much and I have found myself thinking about since then.

It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of information out there regarding this case, despite how brutal and brazen it was.

From what I have read though:

1. It is hard for me to buy into the theory that this was just some random psychopath who happened upon the school and decided to go and kill a young Jewish boy because of his hatred for Jews. Surely, there are less brazen ways to inflict harm on a person if it was a hate crime that would be a heck of a lot less risky. I mean, why would some random person wander to the third floor--and why that particular room--one of only two that housed just a single student? It seems this person knew exactly where he was going...

Why is it hard to believe? Children are easier to kill than adults. A sleeping child is even easier. The only risk is in being seen and being heard. Is luring a kid outside to a private place really much easier? What if the killer lacked confidence in his social skills?

From what I understand, the fire escape led directly to the third floor, which would explain why the killer went there. And who's to say he did not wander the other floors first? Why does everyone make the assumption the killer made a b-line to Chaim's room? In fact, one child vaguely remembers his door opening in the middle of the night.

Maybe Chaim's room was the 3rd or 4th he opened? If his motive is to simply kill a Jewish child in order to take his pain out on the world, he is going to kill the first child he sees that has his own room.

2. The window being open is rather odd, particularly if it couldn't serve as an escape or entry route (third floor and I read in a previous post that the fire escape was attached to a different room). But what is more puzzling is if this truly was a random person, I truly cannot see this person risk coming back to the scene almost an hour later to move the body for whatever reason. This would be INCREDIBLY risky unless the person stayed in the room with the dead body for that long?

Maybe Chaim just left the window open? It happens. Plus we don't know if the window was wide open, or open just a crack.

According to wunderground.com the weather that night in 1986 was 48/49 degrees. I've known people who don't mind the cold as much. He could've been one of those people.

3. The viciousness and brutality of the crime, which was obviously understated in the US episode is troubling. The first blow killed Chaim, who why 11 or 12 more stabs? Someone stated that the room was a bloodbath, with skull and brain pieces everywhere--hard to believe nobody heard anything. But more to the point: this was a rage filled killing and speaks to someone knowing the victim and being extremely angry with him for some reason.

It's a basic tenet in criminal profiling that when there is violent, repetitive, wounds to the head or neck that is a personal crime. So yes, we can consider that the killer knew Chaim very closely.

But if he was a very angry man (can a woman really kill someone with the force Chaim was reportedly killed?) who put all of his insecurities and worthlessness out on Jews, then we could consider he would do a similar amount of damage. There are many cases of men who hated and resented women in general (from a lifetime of rejection), committing horrific murders on random women.

It is still possible "a random psycho" did this. Labeling them a "random psycho" is not how murders are solved. You need to get inside their head to find a motive. If the killer had a pathetic life, blamed his problems on Jews, then had a major stressor, he could of definitely taken it out on Chaim with the force he did.

From that point of view, he saw killing a Jewish child easier than killing an adult, and even easier to do it while they were sleeping.

4. I know several people were polygraphed and passed, but please remember these tests are in know way accurate; I wish people would not put so much stake in them.

That is true. But interrogators are still professionals. If someone is lying they can sense it. Even if one of those kids is a sociopath, at 14/15 years old it would be exceptionally difficult to cover up a crime of this magnitude. Plus from reading posts of children who went to school with Chaim (now adults), they had considered the prospect of everyone around and if they could have been the killers. They said that they did not think any of the kids or rabbis did it.

5. Maybe someone can clarify: I know there was a candle that was lit that was put in Chaim's room. The Unsolved Mystery episode stated that ONE was placed in by a rabbi after the murder, but a SECOND one mysteriously appeared and that is the one that nobody could identify how it got there. Is that true? Why wouldn't someone admit putting it there? Maybe the candle, the window being open and the body being on the floor (lowest point) are all coincidental, but is seems like a wild coincidence if they are.

Overall, my impression is this murder was committed by someone (a) who knew Chaim and (b) was familiar enough with the dorm to know exactly where he was going and how easily he could go undetected. It still baffles me that nobody heard or saw a thing. I just pray that one day the monster who did this is caught. Definitely a disturbing crime.

Someone who went to school there said that a forgetful older rabbi lit it and forgot. Happens.

I personally don't believe the ritual aspect of it at all. You'll notice that most of the people (if not all) that are proposing this are not Jewish and not intimately familiar with the Jewish religion. We tend to not be weird ritualistic types. People tend to be intimidated by Orthodox Jews (or just plain think they are weird) so they assume that they must do weird stuff like this.

Orthodox Jews are still very pragmatic, intelligent people. There are things that some extreme sects are weird about (how women dress, etc.) but murdering and placing bodies in certain positions is nothing like that.

To answer your summary, how do you rule out someone hating Jews (and living in the area so he knew about the dorm) breaking in and killing Chaim? Consider all my responses to your suggestions above.

And if everyone was sleeping, why does it surprise you nobody heard or saw anything? This was a pretty quiet residential area.
 
^

Of course, all of your points are very valid and very possible. I was strictly speaking about my initial impression based on what little information there is available on this case. Of course, it could very well have been someone who had a deep hatred for Jews and knew of the dormitory and went in and explored until finding a lone boy (Chaim) to take his hatred and aggression out. I am definitely not ruling that out.

However, I also do not rule out that it was someone who knew Chaim. You mentioned the fire escape leading to the third floor--I thought I read that it lead to a different room, meaning if the killer used it, he would have ended up in an occupied room. Maybe I am wrong.

And the fact that it was a pretty quiet residential area is what makes it surprising to me nobody heard or saw anything. This killer was pretty brazen and the murder was extremely bloody and messy.

Of course, anything is possible and hopefully one day the killer will be brought to justice. A horrible, horrible crime.
 
I think moving the blinds could be to get light into Chaim's room. If the murderer had turned on Chaim's lights, that would more than likely be noticed.
 
First I must apologize if the following points have already been covered, I haven't read every posts in this case, etc.

Have we ever seen a floor plan of the dorm, how far was the closest staircase, how far was the room which might have been looked into ?

Had Chaim recently reported anyone to the school authorities, i.e. sexual abuse, stealing, grades etc.

Was there a trail of blood leading out of the room ? Was there a washroom in this room for the killer to clean himself ? Were finger prints discovered in the room? Was any employees on the premises during the murder time frame ?
 
http://www.moonpage.com/

The moon was waning on October 31, 1986. It was only 3.77 percent full. So, it would provide no light to the murderer while in Chaim's room. However, it is possible there were other light sources. Could streetlights shine into Chaim's room if the blinds were moved aside? Does anyone know if enough were around to make it plausible?

I am thinking maybe in his attack on Chaim, the murderer just backed into the blinds and pushed them aside. IDK if that is possible. I guess I am having trouble imagining it is part of any death ritual (I only mean in Chaim's room), but IDK.

The darkness would make it easier for someone to creep into the dorm and also to escape later.
 
First I must apologize if the following points have already been covered, I haven't read every posts in this case, etc.

Have we ever seen a floor plan of the dorm, how far was the closest staircase, how far was the room which might have been looked into ?

Had Chaim recently reported anyone to the school authorities, i.e. sexual abuse, stealing, grades etc.

Was there a trail of blood leading out of the room ? Was there a washroom in this room for the killer to clean himself ? Were finger prints discovered in the room? Was any employees on the premises during the murder time frame ?


This is something I would like to know as well....if the description of the crime scene I read is correct, the killer had to have been covered in bloody. You would think there would have been a trail of it and traces of it along the killer's exit route.
 
Musings..

Although I doubt anything valuable was in the rooms, could a thief have entered Chaim's room thinking it was empty, and stumbling upon the sick and likely sleeping student, responded with violence fueled by fear and addiction?

Also wondering if the first blow to the side of Chaim's head, which likely killed him before the onslaught of the other blows he received, was a sort of "mercy " hit- killing him before 'destroying" him? Thus making a calculated kill look like a frenzied, random murder?

Are there any more news articles or other info.about the elderly Jewish couple who were murdered in a similar fashion in the neighbourhood?
 
Today's news, just something to keep in mind imo.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/30/beverly-hills-rabbi-busted-for-molesting-boys-in-brooklyn/

"Beverly Hills rabbi busted for ‘molesting boys in Brooklyn’

By Natasha Velez

October 30, 2013"


"Four boys had come forward charging that the former Brooklyn youth worker molested them sometime between the mid 1990′s and 2004, the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles reported"
 
October 31, 1986 is the 304th day of the year 1986 in the Gregorian calendar. There are 61 days remaining until the end of this year. The day of the week is Friday.
http://www.dayoftheweek.org/?m=October&d=31&y=1986&go=Go

So, we have a Friday night Halloween and a Saturday morning November 1st (which, as I understand it, Chaim was discovered November 1st.. very early, still dark.. is this correct?)

We need a general idea what the heck Chaim's dorm might have looked like.. was there another way to get out of Chaim's room besides the brightly lit hallway? If so, then the murderer may have used that. If he was forced to go out via the hallway then we need to know about the hallway. Was the hallway floor tile or carpet, light or dark floor? If the floor was dark then the murderer might have been able to go down it and even if some blood dripped, it would not be as easy to notice. Once he got outside, someone might mistake his appearance for a Halloween costume. Especially since he does not seem to have been noticed near the dorm. Were there trees or bushes or anything else around the dorm that a murderer might use to conceal himself?

Also, the neighborhood.. were there many Jewish people (as in percentagewise)? Was it likely if someone came into the neighborhood and committed a murder that the victim would be Jewish?

If so, then this could explain a person who hated Jewish people. He would not need to know very much about any particular victim, he would be able to find a victim easily just by going to the neighborhood. I still say if it is such a person, then nothing in Chaim's room relates to a death ritual other than the candle that was placed by a rabbi after Chaim was discovered. Such a person would know very little about any particular Jewish belief or custom. And if he did know, would disregard it. (Moo)

If another student, he did not necessarily have to be from that dorm. He could be from another dorm and just know the code to get into Chaim's dorm. it was said in the article that Chaim had a sharp tongue sometimes, maybe someone got overly upset over something he said. If there were students there getting molested, then some students would be really on edge from the stress from it. What if nothing was happening to Chaim and he knew nothing? It would be easy to make a remark that meant nothing particularly bad to him, but to a kid who was traumatized it might sound like Chaim was being cruel. (Not blaming Chaim here, but the evil child molester that some articles say was present at this school during this time period.) MOOO/speculation

This bring us back to how secure was Chaim's dorm? Was the code known by people who did not live in it? Students in other dorms? Alumni? Could a person watching have learned the code by watching students going into the dorm? (This would be stranger murderer lurking around somewhere if there was such a place he could lurk.)
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
123
Guests online
1,863
Total visitors
1,986

Forum statistics

Threads
605,266
Messages
18,184,939
Members
233,288
Latest member
Justicefornicky
Back
Top