NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83

[Bit of hope]

Hoping our lady is one day identified.

 

[Giuc0]

I've checked if our JD is in DN DNA project. AFAIK, she isn't.
I did drop a line to the FB page admin. Admin acknowledged the message and said that they are working on a form for submitting cases.

Still no news from South Africa, but I am not too concerned about the no news. It takes a lot of time for any progress when two countries are involved, especially when they're two countries from two different continents.
it can take months for getting any step forward.

I wish I could help better :-/

 

[booghawk]

In the eighties, the US-Canadian border was very open. There were checkpoints, but mainly they just asked "Are you an American citizen?" If not, you needed to show documentation, of course, but if said yes, they almost never checked. So no, there probably wouldn't be any information if she went back and forth across the Canadian border.

And I'm thinking that could be why her body was found where it was--if she was killed in Canada, they might have brought her body over the border to dispose of, counting on the international border to prevent her being traced back to wherever she came from. Now LE in both countries is much more aware of the problem, but back then it was like a brick wall.

Yes, and passports weren't required then. Most forms of ID was enough. Even in the 90s it was incredibly easy to cross without much of a footprint. I live 45 minutes from the border, it was incredibly casual.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

 

[leilarose68]

Are people into genealogy at all in South Africa?

 

[Alleykins]

Yes, and passports weren't required then. Most forms of ID was enough. Even in the 90s it was incredibly easy to cross without much of a footprint. I live 45 minutes from the border, it was incredibly casual.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

It was easy to cross near where I live, too. As long as you said you were an American citizen and didn't have any fruit, it was a breeze. Never once had to show ID back then.

 

[CCJD]

What about the doe network dna project, could they mean something?

"The Doe Network" and "DNA Doe Project (DDP)" are two different entities and are not affiliated with each other.

 

[booghawk]

It was easy to cross near where I live, too. As long as you said you were an American citizen and didn't have any fruit, it was a breeze. Never once had to show ID back then.

Canadian too, back then it really wasn't a big deal. I have family in Washington & Oregon and we crossed constantly! For kids under 18 back then, and sometimes now, you just needed a birth certificate or photo id and they never took note of who was crossing.

 

[Bit of hope]

"The Doe Network" and "DNA Doe Project (DDP)" are two different entities and are not affiliated with each other.

You got me! Yes, you are correct. I meant the DNA Doe Project OC.

 

[Find Brenda]

Not to muddy up the Blue Boy note conundrum even further, but I did not see anything in this thread (maybe I missed it?) about the possible connection to Telex numbers. FWIW:

From Ellery Doe Facebook Page:

Explanation of Telex numbers:
Telex - Wikipedia

 

[Al Ka]

Sorry, too late to edit my post... but wanted to add this note found on the UID as a reminder:

Just bringing this forward as it includes enhanced Blue Boy codes of Jane Doe. Just click on photo and it will enhance enough to read properly.

 

[wmm85]

Are people into genealogy at all in South Africa?

The Afrikaner people are really into their genealogy. They are regularly posting on Ancestry, Geni and other related sites. I’m Canadian but share a similar ancestry to many Afrikaners (French Huguenot) so based on that (and my surname) I get contacted by quite a few of them.

 

[Bit of hope]

Not to muddy up the Blue Boy note conundrum even further, but I did not see anything in this thread (maybe I missed it?) about the possible connection to Telex numbers. FWIW:

From Ellery Doe Facebook Page:

Explanation of Telex numbers:
Telex - Wikipedia

This was the first case I started working on when I joined WS in 2016. We went up and down and round and round with the notes, from telephone numbers from those days (all over the world, digit and lettering systems), city abbreviations, zip codes, to industrial notes, serial numbers for car/motor components, telex, type of hand righting, mileage and what not. Until this day we still couldn't figure it out. Sometimes I think the killer put the note in her pocket just to throw LE off. When looking at the telex numbers did you see a number that fits with numbers on the note?

In addition: A journalist who investigated the case believed that the numbers were internal numbers of the JFK airport. But that was never confirmed.

 

[Find Brenda]

This was the first case I started working on when I joined WS in 2016. We went up and down and round and round with the notes, from telephone numbers from those days (all over the world, digit and lettering systems), city abbreviations, zip codes, to industrial notes, serial numbers for car/motor components, telex, type of hand righting, mileage and what not. Until this day we still couldn't figure it out. Sometimes I think the killer put the note in her pocket just to throw LE off. When looking at the telex numbers did you see a number that fits with numbers on the note?

In addition: A journalist who investigated the case believed that the numbers were internal numbers of the JFK airport. But that was never confirmed.

I didn't see anything that really stood out for me other than there are plenty of European associations.

To be honest, the note is probably a dead end. I too have spent an inordinate amount of time researching possibilities. But in the end, the note could just be meaningless drivel.

For instance, I have been thinking about my 'Things to Do' lists. I use several different abbreviations that obviously only I would understand. To an outsider my notes might look like some mysterious code, but in reality they are just my basic personal notes.

Though in this case, I hope I am wrong and that eventually someone will come along and have an eureka! moment and know exactly what it is.

 

[Al Ka]

Respectfuly snipped for focus

Sometimes I think the killer put the note in her pocket just to throw LE off.

Out of curiousity, was it actually mentioned that note was found IN her pocket? Re reading her old Doe network page it only says that note was found. Maybe it was mentioned somewhere where exactly it was found, just not recalling it at the moment.

Just thinking about it as it is known that quite often perp of the crime looses items at the crime scenes. Watches, rings etc of perps were found in some cases under bodies or near the bodies. Could be the case with this note too or of course it could be hers.

Whoever's the note it was, I do think that letterhead of the note is very strong clue and maybe even more important then what it is scrambled on it.

Letterhead is from Canada. Her body was found very near Canadian border. Her UID which she has fitted was imported to Canada. (Thats all multiple and very strong clues).

Her cloth are European and expensive. Her dental work is European and expensive too. I do wonder if she was one of European arrivals to Canada, perhaps of French descent. That would include France, Belgium, Switzerland. Or she was just from Canada with European ties.

Yes, I think we need to look much further into Canadian cases and also zoom in more on Vancouver (which is also French).

 

[Bit of hope]

Respectfuly snipped for focus


Out of curiousity, was it actually mentioned that note was found IN her pocket? Re reading her old Doe network page it only says that note was found. Maybe it was mentioned somewhere where exactly it was found, just not recalling it at the moment.

Just thinking about it as it is known that quite often perp of the crime looses items at the crime scenes. Watches, rings etc of perps were found in some cases under bodies or near the bodies. Could be the case with this note too or of course it could be hers.

Whoever's the note it was, I do think that letterhead of the note is very strong clue and maybe even more important then what it is scrambled on it.

Letterhead is from Canada. Her body was found very near Canadian border. Her UID which she has fitted was imported to Canada. (Thats all multiple and very strong clues).

Her cloth are European and expensive. Her dental work is European and expensive too. I do wonder if she was one of European arrivals to Canada, perhaps of French descent. That would include France, Belgium, Switzerland. Or she was just from Canada with European ties.

Yes, I think we need to look much further into Canadian cases and also zoom in more on Vancouver (which is also French).

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/in-the-pocket-of-a-women-lying-dead-a-note-on-vancouver-motel-stationary-thats-mystified-police-for-33-years

Here it is.....

 

[Bit of hope]

Stupid me found this picture ones but forgot to give a name. Does anybody know who she is?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Stupid me found this picture ones but forgot to give a name. Does anybody know who she is?

View attachment 141880View attachment 141881

There is a thread here on websleuths somewhere for questions like this when us memory lapse people can't remember a case we are looking for. I suggest you find that thread and post the girls picture there. Someone may know which case she belongs to.

 

[Bit of hope]

There is a thread here on websleuths somewhere for questions like this when us memory lapse people can't remember a case we are looking for. I suggest you find that thread and post the girls picture there. Someone may know which case she belongs to.

Thanks for the tip! Owuta

 

[Find Brenda]

Out of curiousity, was it actually mentioned that note was found IN her pocket? Re reading her old Doe network page it only says that note was found. Maybe it was mentioned somewhere where exactly it was found, just not recalling it at the moment.

Just thinking about it as it is known that quite often perp of the crime looses items at the crime scenes. Watches, rings etc of perps were found in some cases under bodies or near the bodies. Could be the case with this note too or of course it could be hers.

Whoever's the note it was, I do think that letterhead of the note is very strong clue and maybe even more important then what it is scrambled on it.

Letterhead is from Canada. Her body was found very near Canadian border. Her UID which she has fitted was imported to Canada. (Thats all multiple and very strong clues).

Her cloth are European and expensive. Her dental work is European and expensive too. I do wonder if she was one of European arrivals to Canada, perhaps of French descent. That would include France, Belgium, Switzerland. Or she was just from Canada with European ties.

Yes, I think we need to look much further into Canadian cases and also zoom in more on Vancouver (which is also French).

Agreed. I wish they would do an isotope test to get a better idea about where she had lived.

I am guessing the note was somewhere on her person because it likely would have been ruined otherwise because of the weather conditions. According to her Facebook page: "Investigators believed that Ellery Doe could have been in the ditch for up to 24 to 36 hours before she was discovered (possible date of death between December 4-6, 1983). Snow cover would have buried her from view until the cold, drizzly rain showers revealed her body. Unfortunately, for several days following the discovery, bad weather, including a Wednesday snowstorm, hampered a thorough search and investigation of the vicinity."

 

[MYKWB]

To throw in a very strange thought.....thinking about her V shaped scar...always wondered what kind of scar it was. Could it be she was of mixed gender...having to remove her addam's apple....just a strange thought....(don't crucify me for this)

No. They know by the bones what gender a person is.