Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[Kat]

I think this is the one; it operated at one time from an address on Prince Street: The Leslie Lohman Museum (Wiki)

This is not to say that the museum, its founders, its artists, or its visitors were in any way involved. It is now a prestigious institution and, undoubtedly, suffered the prejudices of its time - this may be the source of the rumor that the space was notorious for sexual liasons, in fact - prejudice against the gay community.

I agree, I also don't think the children would have had access to any of the holdings within the owner's collection of art.

But it gives us an idea of what was in that bldg prior to Etan and after Etan going missing and gives us the impression that this was still an arty neighborhood rather than what it is now which, pardon my lack of the correct slang, but yuppie maybe? Upscale-ish? I hope you get what I mean hah.

 

[wfgodot]

Another take on the dollar/newly poured floor thing:

---
At the time of his disappearance, Etan's mother told police that her 6-year-old son had been holding the dollar in his hand as he set off for school that morning. She had suggested he put it in his pocket, but he told her that he planned to stop and buy a soda before boarding his school bus at a stop two blocks from their SoHo home.

The boy’s route would have taken him past the workshop of handyman Othneil Miller at 127 Prince Street. Miller was said by law-enforcement agents and in press accounts to have poured a new concrete floor there shortly after her son vanished.

For reasons that are not entirely clear, the initial probe never focused on Miller. One detective suggests that the original investigators thought that Miller’s giving the dollar to Patz was “just a nice thing to do.”
---
Julie Patz had forgotten neither the dollar nor the newly poured floor. She is said by investigators to have suggested that Miller was worth a look.
---

much more at Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...n-patz-missing-child-case-33-years-later.html

 

[Kat]

Then from the link I just posted, they donated the space for the children's 'play group' that existed in the basement they are now digging up to look for Etan's body. What the heck is wrong with this picture - except everything!!! :sick:

I have to sign off now. But Reannan I thought to myself when I saw that---hmm boy it would be easy to get him to come down into the basement quickly before school if he was already familiar with the basement and associated it with his playgroup.

You know, perps will use any manipulation to get their target.

I'm going to be thinking of Etan tonight and I hope hope hope he gets to come home soon.

 

[Rougelatete]

I think we need to be careful, here. Speaking as a WS verified mental health counselor, I would like to point out the following things:

* The most prominent and reliable of scientific studies have demonstrated time and again that gay/lesbian sexual orientation has no bearing on whether or not someone will become a child molester. In fact, it appears to be quite the opposite. One study of 175 randomly-selected child molesters found that all of them identified as heterosexuals in their adult personal views of their own sexual orientations. Another study examined 352 medical charts of offenders and found that less than 1% of them could be identified as gay or lesbian.

* It is a common stereotype to believe that homosexuals are child molesters and this is not something that is backed up by scientific data (again, most studies have shown that the vast majority of child molesters are heterosexual adult males).

Based on all of the available scientific data, I believe the greatest threat to the children in the SoHo playgroup was likely a heterosexual male, not the gay/lesbian museum and its patrons/workers. And, I'm not even sure the SoHo playgroup has anything at all to do with the disappearance of Etan Patz. All we know for sure now is that two child molesters are being looked at as possible suspects. I kindly ask that everyone be careful with their assumptions.

:gthanks:

 

[wfgodot]

I agree, I also don't think the children would have had access to any of the holdings within the owner's collection of art.

But it gives us an idea of what was in that bldg prior to Etan and after Etan going missing and gives us the impression that this was still an arty neighborhood rather than what it is now which, pardon my lack of the correct slang, but yuppie maybe? Upscale-ish? I hope you get what I mean hah.

SoHo in 1979 meant many different things to many different people. It had transitioned not long before from a working district to one artists sought for rentals and exhibition space; at the same time, it was attracting what we did call yuppies. And there was also the seamy element that all interesting locations in every major city seem to have.

 

[Reannan]

I have friends and family that are from both the gay and lesbian community. They are wonderful people, and I am confident they value children as much as I do.... which is enough to get in a fight and die for. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. I defend my friends and family to live their life without persecution - as I demand my life to be lived. This situation is heading into an arena that is politically charged, but that is why we have a justice system in our country - one that my family members have died to defend. I am SO DANG THRILLED that LE has not forgotten Etan!!! We may not be able to bring him back, but maybe - just maybe - our society can demand justice for him... he deserved the right to live to become an adult version of the beautiful soul he was. His picture has been engraved on my brain for YEARS!!!! God Bless you Etan - God Bless your family, and everyone that has cared about you, and refused to give up on finding you.

 

[epiphany]

Just to clarify - they are searching the basement where Othneil Miller had a workshop when Etan went missing (1979). The address is at 127 Prince Street. There is currently a Lucky Brand store at street level (which comes up on Google Maps, Street View). The gay/lesbian art gallery, Leslie/Lohman Gay and Lesbian Museum of Art is located about 4 blocks away at 26 Wooster Street. The museum has an annex in the basement that they are digging up. The Leslie/Lohman organization was only established in 1990, so they probably have NOTHING to do with this case - but the content of their organization is obviously very sexual, and there are news reports that indicate some sort of sexual activity was a cultural phenomenon in that basement back in 1979. We need to know WHAT was in that building back then.

Respectfully BBM.

The building above the investigation was an artists’ co-op, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/n...gation-soho-recalls-the-old-neighborhood.html

The new search focused on a basement area that had been used as a workshop by a carpenter and handyman from Etan’s building. Investigators are working on the theory that the handyman, OM, killed the boy and buried him there, one law enforcement official said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/n...case-police-begin-new-search-for-remains.html

 

[RoseTree]

I think the fact that a museum for homosexual art exists there is just a coincidence with a time difference of 20 years.

 

[passionflower]

I have to sign off now. But Reannan I thought to myself when I saw that---hmm boy it would be easy to get him to come down into the basement quickly before school if he was already familiar with the basement and associated it with his playgroup.

You know, perps will use any manipulation to get their target.
I'm going to be thinking of Etan tonight and I hope hope hope he gets to come home soon.

BBM if Etan wanted a soda? (like mom said)perp could of offered him one.
Or another $ to do something quick.............children are so innocent!
Mom must have a mother's intuition to name a person after 33 years.
IMO, she thought it was him from the beginning and was never heard???lease:

 

[meganx3xo]

I think it's really interesting/concerning that most people think Ramos did it. There is a cop claiming he thinks Ramos did it. I honestly have no idea what to think.

How far did Ramos live from Prince street? Thanks!

 

[passionflower]

I am thinking in 1979, acid and other drugs were in use.
Do we know if this was a drug area also?
I'm trying to think back to the time period across the country.
I've never been to Soho area.
But if it was 'artsy', there may of been all kinds of enviroments going on. JMOO

 

[passionflower]

I think it's really interesting/concerning that most people think Ramos did it. There is a cop claiming he thinks Ramos did it. I honestly have no idea what to think.

How far did Ramos live from Prince street? Thanks!

Hate to say this but could Ramos and Miller of been 'friends"?
They both knew Etan?

 

[Reannan]

I think the fact that a museum for homosexual art exists there is just a coincidence with a time difference of 20 years.

I would like to think so also... but if someone who is associated with the basement of that building - especially someone who was associated with that building in the past, AND sponsored a children's playgroup of some kind - we need a bright spot light that illuminates what happened on May 25, 1979.... and I want to know what has happened there since then. It would be hard to believe, from my 'crime background' that a murder of Etan could happen in any sort of 'organized' group and it would be the ONLY missing/murdered child in 33 years! These type of Hollywood'esque events tend to happen in multiples, not tragic single events. :twocents:

 

[epiphany]

I think it's really interesting/concerning that most people think Ramos did it. There is a cop claiming he thinks Ramos did it. I honestly have no idea what to think.

How far did Ramos live from Prince street? Thanks!

Lower east side neighborhood. About a mile away.

 

[wfgodot]

How far did Ramos live from Prince street? Thanks!

Not sure, though I think I saw that referred to somewhere upthread. Ramos was a street dealer who sold cheap jewelry and the like, and thus his professional location was mobile; his girlfriend, according to an interview he did, was the person first hired to walk Etan the two blocks to his bus stop and thus would have been familiar with his routine and his movements when he launched out that first day on his own.

ETA
epiphany has it, post above, re: Ramos' proximity to the Patz family

 

[meganx3xo]

Hate to say this but could Ramos and Miller of been 'friends"?
They both knew Etan?

That's what I'm kind of thinking? Why else would the police believe Ramos for so long? Surely he was able to give them info that wasn't public? Or else anybody could claim to have done x, y and z. I am trying to find Ramos old address to see how far apart they were to see if they could have known/run across each other.

 

[RoseTree]

I would like to think so also... but if someone who is associated with the basement of that building - especially someone who was associated with that building in the past, AND sponsored a children's playgroup of some kind - we need a bright spot light that illuminates what happened on May 25, 1979.... and I want to know what has happened there since then. It would be hard to believe, from my 'crime background' that a murder of Etan could happen in any sort of 'organized' group and it would be the ONLY missing/murdered child in 33 years! These type of Hollywood'esque events tend to happen in multiples, not tragic single events. :twocents:

Oh my gosh I totally agree! I just meant that the museum and Etan are likely not related.

 

[Wondergirl]

I am very suprised by the recent turn of events in Etan's case.

I hope the boys remains are returned to his loving family, someday soon.

 

[Reannan]

Oh my gosh I totally agree! I just meant that the museum and Etan are likely not related.

This case is the perfect example of the disconnect that happens when trying to view the past in terms of the present. We look up a location, and ta-da!!! - we find it on the internet!!!! It is not always appropriate to associate what we find today with events that happened in the past. I would completely move past the art gallery if it wasn't for the article about the currnet owners providing space for a children's playgroup in that basement back in the 1970's. :what: I still, honestly, don't know what to do with that!!! I think I will go to bed right now and just sleep on it. Prayers to everyone who has cared about Etan and feels the wound in their heart ripped open again on this case.

 

[carole]

This case is the perfect example of the disconnect that happens when trying to view the past in terms of the present. We look up a location, and ta-da!!! - we find it on the internet!!!! It is not always appropriate to associate what we find today with events that happened in the past. I would completely move past the art gallery if it wasn't for the article about the currnet owners providing space for a children's playgroup in that basement back in the 1970's. :what: I still, honestly, don't know what to do with that!!! I think I will go to bed right now and just sleep on it. Prayers to everyone who has cared about Etan and feels the wound in their heart ripped open again on this case.

BBM

Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't find anything sinister about these two men offering their unused basement space for the playgroup.

Simply seems to me like a nice gesture to the mothers in the neighborhood to have a place for their children to have organized playtime.

Nothing I've read leads me to believe they were involved in any other way but donating the space.

JMHO