NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

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Agree, well thought out!
ETA - surveillance from the mall might be helpful looking for any group leaving toward where she was attacked...

I can't see a single individual, much less a duo or group, crossing the Belt at or near that time of day. Not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. Traffic is getting heavier by about 2 pm; by 3:30-4 it'd be hard to cross the highway. Impossible by 5+.

Link to webcam of Belt Parkway near the Erskine Street (where the Gateway shopping center in question is) exit heading east: http://wxyzwebcams.com/en/webcam-430.php Crossing isn't pedestrian friendly, especially in pairs/groups. These pictures give you an idea of the six lanes/median/service roads that would have to be crossed.
 
So far LE has not mentioned a scenario involving more than 1 perp. The viciousness of the crime may be correlated with the level of resistance and fighting back by Karina. And if there's one thing we do know for sure--Karina fought her attacker with everything she had. SOURCE
 
I can't see a single individual, much less a duo or group, crossing the Belt at or near that time of day. Not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. Traffic is getting heavier by about 2 pm; by 3:30-4 it'd be hard to cross the highway. Impossible by 5+.

Link to webcam of Belt Parkway near the Erskine Street (where the Gateway shopping center in question is) exit heading east: http://wxyzwebcams.com/en/webcam-430.php Crossing isn't pedestrian friendly, especially in pairs/groups. These pictures give you an idea of the six lanes/median/service roads that would have to be crossed.

That's good info.

But there still could be a duo/group using the park for whatever reasons (drinking and drugs come to mind). You don't need to be enroute to a mall to want to hang out in a hidden location. Hanging out in a isolated park just rings true to me for a group of young guys, who don't have cars or their own places.

Obviously the perp was indeed in the park. Whether he (or they) followed Karina or happened upon her is the question I'm pondering. I'm leaning toward the perp(s) happened upon her and hunted her as they came across her, rather than followed her.

JMOpinion at the moment, open to change
 
That's good info.

But there still could be a duo/group using the park for whatever reasons (drinking and drugs come to mind). You don't need to be enroute to a mall to want to hang out in a hidden location. Hanging out in a isolated park just rings true to me for a group of young guys, who don't have cars or their own places.

Obviously the perp was indeed in the park. Whether he (or they) followed Karina or happened upon her is the question I'm pondering. I'm leaning toward the perp(s) happened upon her and hunted her as they came across her, rather than followed her.

JMOpinion at the moment, open to change

Since she had he earbuds on, possible she may have jogged/ran past them oblivious to their being in the weeds, he or they saw and heard her go by, but she didn't see/hear him/them - so he/they waited for her to make the return trip back on the path....
 
Since she had he earbuds on, possible she may have jogged/ran past them oblivious to their being in the weeds, he or they saw and heard her go by, but she didn't see/hear him/them - so he/they waited for her to make the return trip back on the path....

Yes, I'm thinking it happened on the return trip as well, when she was headed out of the Weeds, rather than when she first entered.

jmo
 
The suggestion of anal rape to me doesn't necessarily indicate more than one attacker. To me it possibly suggests escalation of a repeat offender. Jill Meagher comes to mind.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ralia-Jill-Meagher-29-Melbourne-22-Sep-2012-6

No, of course, it doesn't necessarily mean two perps....but it could. It could be one lone guy, but not necessarily. It's totally unconfirmed at this point, so might as well keep options open as we consider the case.

Hmm...it just occurred to me that they should be able to tell rather easily from the DNA if there were more than one person who raped.

jmo
 
A post above includes a link to a news article with an aerial photo of where her body was found. She was closer to the water than to any homes or streets - in a very secluded area of The Weeds.
 
Why is it important for the public to "keep options open?" The detectives are the ones who are closest to the case and they are advising the public. They know this is an urgent public safety issue and if they had info that there was more than 1 perp involved and BOLO for 2 persons, blah, blah, blah, they would get that info out.
 
A post above includes a link to a news article with an aerial photo of where her body was found. She was closer to the water than to any homes or streets - in a very secluded area of The Weeds.

Please repost the link - can't seem to find it, thanks...
 
Why is it important for the public to "keep options open?" The detectives are the ones who are closest to the case and they are advising the public. They know this is an urgent public safety issue and if they had info that there was more than 1 perp involved and BOLO for 2 persons, blah, blah, blah, they would get that info out.

BBM

Because this is a message board for sleuthing/discussing cases. Aren't we here to try to figure out cases and talk about them with each other? We're not LE, but if we're puzzling together a case, I think it's important to keep our minds open to all options, until we have clear direction.

Of course LE knows more than we do....but if all we want to do is wait for press conferences and arrests, we might as well just read the news and not bother posting on WS.

jmopinion
 
does anyone know how close Spring Creek Park is to the Eve Brown Dumpsite? http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/25/n...in-brooklyn-are-those-of-a-missing-woman.html
Google "eve brown belt parkway". It sounds like she was dumped very close to a mall in East New York and this looks to be exactly where Spring Creek Park is. There were other unidentifed remains dumped with Eve Brown (I believe it may have been another graveyard for the LISK or another unknown serial killer).
 
BBM

Because this is a message board for sleuthing/discussing cases. Aren't we here to try to figure out cases and talk about them with each other? We're not LE, but if we're puzzling together a case, I think it's important to keep our minds open to all options, until we have clear direction.

Of course LE knows more than we do....but if all we want to do is wait for press conferences and arrests, we might as well just read the news and not bother posting on WS.

jmopinion

:goodpost:
 
I'm confident LE will be the ones to solve this heinous murder and NY's finest will not stop until they investigate every avenue. Optimally there will be a DNA match that will allow them to know who is the perp, or perhaps the perp will somehow reveal himself.

The biggest lesson that this case tragically highlights is that females cannot be alone on remote or semi-remote paths even if it's a path they've been on many times before and it's close to their home in a neighborhood they know well. It's not fair, but it's the sad reality because police cannot be everywhere at the same time. A female running/walking/hiking/bicycling alone on any path in which there are not other people around and in clear sight at all times, in any town, is unfortunately a potential target for an opportunistic attacker. Karina was the victim of someone who had the opportunity and felt brave/brazen enough to commit this terrible crime, seemingly without too much risk of being caught in the act. Even super-smart women can end up as someone's prey.
 
Why is it important for the public to "keep options open?" The detectives are the ones who are closest to the case and they are advising the public. They know this is an urgent public safety issue and if they had info that there was more than 1 perp involved and BOLO for 2 persons, blah, blah, blah, they would get that info out.


I agree, great point!
 
does anyone know how close Spring Creek Park is to the Eve Brown Dumpsite? http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/25/n...in-brooklyn-are-those-of-a-missing-woman.html
Google "eve brown belt parkway". It sounds like she was dumped very close to a mall in East New York and this looks to be exactly where Spring Creek Park is. There were other unidentifed remains dumped with Eve Brown (I believe it may have been another graveyard for the LISK or another unknown serial killer).

I'm not familiar with the Eve Brown's case (but will look it up in a sec). But quick question: was Eve found in a similar condition (raped & beaten onsite, rather than dumped from elsewhere)?

My very first thought with this case was a serial rapist-turned-killer. Though I'm still leaning toward group/duo crime of opportunity, a serial rapist certainly fits at this stage of the game, until more info is released.

I'll look into Eve Brown now....but please share any similarities you see.

jmo
 
I live 3 miles from where this happened and my family lives about 1 mile from Karina's family. Along the Belt Parkway from the exit to my neighborhood to the exit to Howard Beach is 3 miles of biking and walking/running paths. Off the Belt is the weeds, where the brush is so thick and high in some places that I can imagine people in the area not seeing or hearing anything. Once you move off off the Belt Parkway it is a very secluded area. There are many unofficial paths leading from the Belt Parkway that would lead right to the area that her body was found. Homeless people are known to set up camp in the weeds as well and some panhandle at the exit when you are coming off the Belt into Howard Beach.

Between the exit to my neighborhood and the exit to Karina's neighborhood there is another exit on the belt called Erskine Street. Directly off that exit is a shopping mall with a large parking lot. It is possible to walk from that shopping mall to the Belt Parkway and cross over the Belt, taking one of those unofficial paths leading right to where Karina was found. The mall is about a mile and a half to 2 miles from where Karina was found.
Forgive me if I am all over the place but my thoughts are all trying to come out at once.

4 days before she died, Karina posted a photo of herself and a South African businessman and captioned it "You + Me+ Rose + Saint Tropez= Happiness"
2 days before she died she broke up with a boyfriend who told the police that the reason they broke up was because he thought what they had was more than casual and she considered it to be more casual. Although I have never been one to believe in huge coincidences, from the news reports, the police have already cleared him and he is not considered a suspect so I guess this is just a coincidence.

<mod snip>

Now, I say all that to say this. This feels more to me like something personal than a random attack. I'm not sure how common it is for rapes to be both vaginal and anal and so violently brutal. Even though the area is isolated, it was still light outside and I would think that a rapist/killer would want to get in and out of the area as fast as possible. I also was thinking that if this was a crime of opportunity that was supposed to be "just a rape", once he realized how hard she was going to fight back, wouldn't he have just given up and ran off instead of committing a murder? Hearing the details of the beating and rape makes me feel like this was someone that was angry with her for some reason.

Just my opinion though, I could be way off.

On another note, hi WS'ers, it's been a long time. I haven't posted since Caylee <3

Thank you so much for joining us here on this thread. I agree that it could well be personal. The very first thing I thought. If other joggers /walkers do go into the fire lanes, I would have thought we might have heard about other women seeing someone who gave off a weird vibe. Hoping for some good news soon, and keeping K's family in my prayers. Really hope this doesn't turn out to be a serial predator , it actually has almost a Son of Sam feel to it. all jmo

Also, I had read that K. had gotten breast implants recently, and that her killer beat her breasts ? Do you happen to know if K. lived alone,or did she have a roommate(s) ? tia
 
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