NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

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Incorrect. We all know that CPH called MG. What we're saying (I won't speak for Seaslug, but post#403 is pretty clear to me) is that Mari has made a huge mistake about both the timing and the content of the calls.

The calls definitely took place. In the 48 Hours letter, CPH admits the calls took place, and gives us the time and date.

In the Jim Jones interview, CPH says that during those calls, he mentioned to Mari that perhaps Shannan had checked herself into a rehab clinic.

Mari states that the calls came on the 2nd, but in other interviews the "mystery began on the 3rd" when Diaz called and told them that Shannan was missing (this is linked in my previous posts).

Mari alleges to have proof that the calls came on the 2nd, but she doesn't present it to anyone. Police have looked at the evidence and basically dismiss the notion that CPH (or anyone else for that matter) ever called Mari and said that Shannan was held overnight at a halfway house, and then left with her driver.

I don't know about you, but for me it is fairly clear that Mari has misrepresented (inadvertently or on purpose) both the timing and the content of these calls. As a result, we've all wasted countless hours sleuthing some poor local guy who was just offering his assistance in a missing persons case.
BBM
Hi Inspector (haha, I like saying that)!
Just two things bother me about these calls:

1) Are there any OTHER "poor local guys" ( OR ANYBODY ELSE )" offering their assistance? If AD was passing out BUSINESS CARDS (good grief, I don't believe that for a minute unless the pimp AD knew CPH already), (sorry, have to stop here and ask...Do pimps have cards???????? I don't think so, but it could be...)
My point is - if AD was passing cards out and asking peeps to call Mari, did anybody else call her?
2) Has anybody seen phone records from Mari or CPH? Can you post a link?
3) One other thing...as a healthcare pro, I would NEVER call a victims family members, especially if she hadn't been found yet...
JMHO and food for thought!
 
Maybe LE has known about the SK in Oak Beach for a long time?
Interesting post from casebook:


Beowulf
Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 2

Hi. I am new to this forum but been reading it for months and love it.

I come from near the area of Long Island where these murders are taking place, West Islip.

There is a bridge that goes from West Islip over the great South Bay to Oak Island, where Gilgo Beach is. The dumping ground of these bodies.

I moved from LI to Phx Az but went home for a vacation back in April 2004. I was showing my husband my home turf and took him over the bridge.

At Captree State Park, down the road from Gilgo Beach where these bodies are being discovered we parked to get out and see the beach and were surprised to see on the beach was a mobile forensic lab and a number of men searching the grasses lining the back of the beach.

The men turned and looked at us and it was apparent we were not welcome on the beach. This is years before this story came to light and before they say the investigations started.

Later, when the story came out I naturally remembered the beach investigation years before and noticed the claim it started much later. I don't think so.

In the beginning they were investigating a man involved with one of the murdered girls, Shannon, a Craig's list girl seen at a house on Gilgo Beach owned by a Joseph Brewer. She was last seen running from his house screaming for help by the neighbor. Brewer was the last person to see her alive.

Brewer owns Higbie Liquors, which is in my home town of West Islip. After he became a suspect he moved in with his mother's home in West Islip.

For some reason they say they have discounted Brewer but I read recently in a post by a local his house in WI is still being watched via drive by police.

The story, of course, interests me.


[ame="http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=204683"]Long Island Serial Killer - Casebook Forums[/ame]
 
BBM
Hi Inspector (haha, I like saying that)!
Just two things bother me about these calls:

1) Are there any OTHER "poor local guys" ( OR ANYBODY ELSE )" offering their assistance? If AD was passing out BUSINESS CARDS (good grief, I don't believe that for a minute unless the pimp AD knew CPH already), (sorry, have to stop here and ask...Do pimps have cards???????? I don't think so, but it could be...)
My point is - if AD was passing cards out and asking peeps to call Mari, did anybody else call her?
2) Has anybody seen phone records from Mari or CPH? Can you post a link?
3) One other thing...as a healthcare pro, I would NEVER call a victims family members, especially if she hadn't been found yet...
JMHO and food for thought!

If I were AD or MP and CPH was lying about me asking him to call. I would be telling the police and all of the media that I could that it wasn't true. If he's lying about the call he must be trying to hide something. Why would they sit back and let CPH make up such a story?
 
Did you see her pulled into a truck?

If she was pulled into a truck wouldn't it make sense to leave the area with her in the truck since the police were on the way? Instead of killing her and dumping her body right there?
 
If you remember, original reports indicated she was pulled into a truck. How could she drown if she was? Perhaps her body was dumped there recently
 
If you remember, original reports indicated she was pulled into a truck. How could she drown if she was? Perhaps her body was dumped there recently

Her mother or sister were the ones to say she was pulled into a truck. It never came from law enforcement.
 
The 911 transcripts would clear a lot of this up. The family hasn't heard the call or read, correct?
 
IMO they are probably a more reliable source of information as Shannan's death is partly a result of an LE blunder
 
BBM
Hi Inspector (haha, I like saying that)!
Just two things bother me about these calls:

1) Are there any OTHER "poor local guys" ( OR ANYBODY ELSE )" offering their assistance? If AD was passing out BUSINESS CARDS (good grief, I don't believe that for a minute unless the pimp AD knew CPH already), (sorry, have to stop here and ask...Do pimps have cards???????? I don't think so, but it could be...)
My point is - if AD was passing cards out and asking peeps to call Mari, did anybody else call her?
2) Has anybody seen phone records from Mari or CPH? Can you post a link?
3) One other thing...as a healthcare pro, I would NEVER call a victims family members, especially if she hadn't been found yet...
JMHO and food for thought!

Alex Diaz didn't pass out cards. CPH gave Alex his card. She wasn't a victim at the time. She was missing. He was offering to be a resource. There is nothing fishy about it. And yes, police have seen the phone records. They've "debunked" Mari's version of events.
 
Hi everyone!

I have not heard from Nursebeemee yet regarding Jane Doe 9098's scars. But, I have heard from RabidBadger who is also a WS vetted RN. Here is what RabidBadger has to say regarding Jane Doe 9098's scars.

Please Note: This is RabidBadger's Preliminary Analysis:

"Hi, I got your message and I am looking at the info now. I'm not familiar with the case at all so I'll have to spend some time looking at it and the injuries.

But right off the hop, my instinct is no, it's not a fasciotomy scar. I work with patients who have fasciotomies and escharotomies extensively and have assisted with these procedures. Fasciotomies tend to be long scars, a small one would be virtually pointless.

I'll have more opinion when I have a better understanding of the case."
 
And we know she was into ecstasy. The drug has been known to be sold in pill form mixed with ecstasy or amphetamine and sold as ecstasy.

She most definitely could have picked up a bunk pill and had a bad trip.

But Pak apparently told police that she freaked out and left clients' houses like this frequently. So she was apparently quite volatile and unpredictable. I guess I somewhat disagree that it stretches believability. Why she took her pants off? Here's some believable explanations:

1) they were covered in muck/ruined
2) she was tripping on acid
3) she had hypothermia from wandering around for an hour in the wet marsh and began feeling warm, which is common for hypothermia victims.
4) she was struggling in the muck and having a difficult time trying to make forward progress, like the police were. She felt she would have an easier time ditching the pants, purse, phone, etc.
5) she had to take a poop and used the pants as toilet paper
6) she was suffering from a manic cycle as part of her bipolar disorder and stripped naked, which seems not abnormal for people with bpd to do.[/QU

I never heard that Pak said she was frequently like this...where did you hear it.? was it in an interview? just curious.
 
Will the phrases “straw puppet”, “straw man” and/or “straw man sockpuppet” be heard a lot in relation to the Long Island Perp?

The phrases “straw puppet” ,“strawman” and/or “straw man sockpuppet” are often heard in conjunction with the term “sockpuppet”. They often accompany “sockpuppets” on internet forums and in online gaming communities.

Here are two “straw puppet” definitions:

“Another type of sock puppet is sometimes referred to as a “straw man sock puppet.” They are created by users with one point of view, but act as though they have an opposing point of view, in order to make that point of view look bad. They will often make poor arguments which their “opponents” can then easily refute. This can allow them to essentially make straw man arguments. Such sock puppets thus become a personification of the straw man argument which their creators argue against. They often act unintelligent or uninformed, and may behave in an overtly bigoted manner. The effect is often to obfuscate the debate and prevent a serious discussion of the arguments from each side. Suspicion of such sock puppets is often harder to verify though, as there are often people who naturally behave in such a manner with the same effects.”

The above is quoted from abovetopsecret.com

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread186543/pg1

The link can be obtained by entering the following terms into the Google search bar: “internet straw puppet”. It is the third result.


“A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
Its name is derived from the practice of using straw men in combat training.[citation needed] In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy with the single intent of attacking it[3].[not in citation given] Such a target is, naturally, immobile and does not fight back, and is not as realistic to test skill against compared to a live and armed opponent. It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument.”

The above quoted was taken from websters-online-dictionary.org

http://www.websters-online-dictiona...of=FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=straw+man&sa=Search#906

The above link can be obtained by entering the following terms into the Google search bar: “internet straw puppet”. It is the twelfth result.


**This post does Not pertain to WS
 
It's not hard to imagine that in a case this big there will be more than enough socks and straw to go around and enough to make a Scarecrow's head spin.
 
just trying to rethink the possible scenarios of Gilbert's late night/early morning...

From everything I've read, it appears that when Coletti told Pak that he had called the cops,apparently Pak left Oak Beach immediately (even though Pak told reporters that he circled around the neighborhood looking for Gilbert.) And when Coletti did call police, he asked his wife to stay outside & watch the street for any vehicles moving anywhere while he walked to the gate to wait for police to arrive. Per the JJ field notes, Coletti's wife said that no vehicles came or went...period... for at least a half hour or more til police arrived. Coletti's wife even said Gilbert had to be *within* Oak Beach somewhere.

We know that Gilbert turned the opposite direction from the gate & stopped at Brennan's home, and Brennan also called 911. But, Gilbert ran off from her home as well. Mind you....Gus is still manning the gate til police arrive and apparently no vehicles are coming/going.

It would seem then that Pak is gone. And it would seem that Brewer isn't driving around looking for Gilbert or Coletti's wife or someone would have noticed.

So, either Gilbert did just go into the brambles/marsh and "wig out," shuck her pants, ditch her purse, phone, etc...amble on pantless & shoeless for 3/4 of a mile from Brennan's and die...OR....Gilbert actually did wind up meeting with a killer somewhere down/off Anchor Way.
 
And we know she was into ecstasy. The drug has been known to be sold in pill form mixed with ecstasy or amphetamine and sold as ecstasy.

She most definitely could have picked up a bunk pill and had a bad trip.

But Pak apparently told police that she freaked out and left clients' houses like this frequently. So she was apparently quite volatile and unpredictable. I guess I somewhat disagree that it stretches believability. Why she took her pants off? Here's some believable explanations:

1) they were covered in muck/ruined
2) she was tripping on acid
3) she had hypothermia from wandering around for an hour in the wet marsh and began feeling warm, which is common for hypothermia victims.
4) she was struggling in the muck and having a difficult time trying to make forward progress, like the police were. She felt she would have an easier time ditching the pants, purse, phone, etc.
5) she had to take a poop and used the pants as toilet paper
6) she was suffering from a manic cycle as part of her bipolar disorder and stripped naked, which seems not abnormal for people with bpd to do.

Oh dear Lord #5.:waitasec:
 
just trying to rethink the possible scenarios of Gilbert's late night/early morning...

From everything I've read, it appears that when Coletti told Pak that he had called the cops,apparently Pak left Oak Beach immediately (even though Pak told reporters that he circled around the neighborhood looking for Gilbert.) And when Coletti did call police, he asked his wife to stay outside & watch the street for any vehicles moving anywhere while he walked to the gate to wait for police to arrive. Per the JJ field notes, Coletti's wife said that no vehicles came or went...period... for at least a half hour or more til police arrived. Coletti's wife even said Gilbert had to be *within* Oak Beach somewhere.

We know that Gilbert turned the opposite direction from the gate & stopped at Brennan's home, and Brennan also called 911. But, Gilbert ran off from her home as well. Mind you....Gus is still manning the gate til police arrive and apparently no vehicles are coming/going.

It would seem then that Pak is gone. And it would seem that Brewer isn't driving around looking for Gilbert or Coletti's wife or someone would have noticed.

So, either Gilbert did just go into the brambles/marsh and "wig out," shuck her pants, ditch her purse, phone, etc...amble on pantless & shoeless for 3/4 of a mile from Brennan's and die...OR....Gilbert actually did wind up meeting with a killer somewhere down/off Anchor Way.
Thanks for your post MrsPC. Could you place the Brennan home on a map. I can't find it.

Also, do you believe Mrs Coletti? Would she have been up at that time of the morning? I don't think she would cover for her hubby, do you?
 
Exactly, justk!! In fact almost all cases have those posters who love to hang onto those straw men for dear life.. In the end nothing but just grasping at straws..

These "straw" and "puppet" terms are in no way whatsoever unique to this case..lol.. They're alive and well in MOST cases discussed!!
 
Thanks for your post MrsPC. Could you place the Brennan home on a map. I can't find it.

Also, do you believe Mrs Coletti? Would she have been up at that time of the morning? I don't think she would cover for her hubby, do you?

I have no reason to mistrust Mr or Mrs Coletti's version of events.

Here's a screen shot - I've marked Brennan's home in red
 

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Will the phrases “straw puppet”, “straw man” and/or “straw man sockpuppet” be heard a lot in relation to the Long Island Perp?

The phrases “straw puppet” ,“strawman” and/or “straw man sockpuppet” are often heard in conjunction with the term “sockpuppet”. They often accompany “sockpuppets” on internet forums and in online gaming communities.

Here are two “straw puppet” definitions:

“Another type of sock puppet is sometimes referred to as a “straw man sock puppet.” They are created by users with one point of view, but act as though they have an opposing point of view, in order to make that point of view look bad. They will often make poor arguments which their “opponents” can then easily refute. This can allow them to essentially make straw man arguments. Such sock puppets thus become a personification of the straw man argument which their creators argue against. They often act unintelligent or uninformed, and may behave in an overtly bigoted manner. The effect is often to obfuscate the debate and prevent a serious discussion of the arguments from each side. Suspicion of such sock puppets is often harder to verify though, as there are often people who naturally behave in such a manner with the same effects.”

The above is quoted from abovetopsecret.com

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread186543/pg1

The link can be obtained by entering the following terms into the Google search bar: “internet straw puppet”. It is the third result.


“A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
Its name is derived from the practice of using straw men in combat training.[citation needed] In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy with the single intent of attacking it[3].[not in citation given] Such a target is, naturally, immobile and does not fight back, and is not as realistic to test skill against compared to a live and armed opponent. It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument.”

The above quoted was taken from websters-online-dictionary.org

http://www.websters-online-dictiona...of=FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=straw+man&sa=Search#906

The above link can be obtained by entering the following terms into the Google search bar: “internet straw puppet”. It is the twelfth result.


**This post does Not pertain to WS

A lot of the people on the LISK website seem to resemble the first definition, except I don't think they're straw puppets. I actually think they believe the nonsense that they spew.

I think everyone here has, at some point, wondered if the killer posts here or on the LISK site masquerading as someone or something different than what he is. It'll be interesting to find out once they nab this guy.
 
A lot of the people on the LISK website seem to resemble the first definition, except I don't think they're straw puppets. I actually think they believe the nonsense that they spew.

I think everyone here has, at some point, wondered if the killer posts here or on the LISK site masquerading as someone or something different than what he is. It'll be interesting to find out once they nab this guy.


Is it possible that some of those sockpuppets and straw puppets are coming over here? Yes. MOO.

Is it possible that the killer is posting here? Yes. MOO.
 
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