NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[truthspider]

Shannan did not freeze to death...She did not peel off her clothes, as she entered the marsh, due to hypothermia...that is utter fabrication. If anything ...at 55*... she was sweating from all that running. This argument is getting old. The sun rose within 30 minutes of her reaching the then dry marsh. Just look at aerials of the area from Spring 2010. It was not a wetland.

so what do you make of people pushing these utter fabrications on us? :seeya:

 

[inspctrgadget]

OK, first off, 55 degrees was the air temperature. Look at the water temperature that was recorded from local buoys. It's like 45-50 degrees. Then consider that when you're wet, heat escapes far quicker, and hypothermia sets in far quicker.

From Wikipedia:
Heat is lost more quickly in water[18] than on land. Water temperatures that would be quite reasonable as outdoor air temperatures can lead to hypothermia. A water temperature of 10 °C (50 °F) often leads to death in one hour, and water temperatures hovering at freezing can lead to death in as little as 15 minutes.[32] Water at a temperature of 26 °C (79 °F) will, after prolonged exposure, lead to hypothermia.[33]

Now consider that the arial view is useless for determining how "wet" this marsh is. Tidal marshes are impacted by... the tide.

Consider how this marsh would have looked from a cross section on a given day. This may help:

Let me also add this. The high tides in nearby Fire Island were exceptionally high in the week leading up to Shannan's disappearance. If these tidal marshes were ever to fill up with water, that would have been one of the weeks that it happened.

In fact, that week they approached the high tide for the entire year, 3.9 feet.

Take a look for yourself.

www.nps.gov/fiis/planyourvisit/upload/​2010_​TideTables.pdf

 

[truthspider]

In my opinion, its just more evidence that supports the theory that we're wasting time trying to sort out what happened in Oak Beach. If you don't believe me, do a little test for yourself. Go out in the pitch dark and walk into some dense woods. See how long it takes you to lose your orientation and get hopelessly lost, and panicked. Don't forget to bring your phone/GPS when you get lost within 30 seconds or less so you can find your way out.

Now imagine the woods were mucky up to your hips with close to freezing wet mud.

Ok Inspector, lets let the fellow sleuthers decide if someone could become lost and disoriented in this area.

And if all the street lights, tall houses and the sounds of cars passing on ocean parkway aren't enough to keep you from getting disoriented, remember there is a LIGHTHOUSE with a strobe-light that shines every 7.5 seconds and is visible for many many miles. The notion of anyone becoming disoriented there is laughable.


"Today the light is lit by two 1000-watt bulbs, which rotate in a counter-clockwise direction, giving the appearance of a flash every 7.5 seconds. The light is visible for approximately 21-24 miles. "

- http://www.fireislandlighthouse.com/html/lighthouse_history.html

 

[dcgrumpy]

Ok Inspector, lets let the fellow sleuthers decide if someone could become lost and disoriented in this area.

And if all the street lights, tall houses and the sounds of cars passing on ocean parkway aren't enough to keep you from getting disoriented, remember there is a LIGHTHOUSE with a strobe-light that shines every 7.5 seconds and is visible for many many miles. The notion of anyone becoming disoriented there is laughable.


"Today the light is lit by two 1000-watt bulbs, which rotate in a counter-clockwise direction, giving the appearance of a flash every 7.5 seconds. The light is visible for approximately 21-24 miles. "

- http://www.fireislandlighthouse.com/html/lighthouse_history.html

Yes you can see the lighthouse from far away. But the light is not shining brightly on someone 3 miles away.

I've spent plenty nights at Sore Thumb and the lighthouse doesn't light anything up.

 

[inspctrgadget]

Ok Inspector, lets let the fellow sleuthers decide if someone could become lost and disoriented in this area.

And if all the street lights, tall houses and the sounds of cars passing on ocean parkway aren't enough to keep you from getting disoriented, remember there is a LIGHTHOUSE with a strobe-light that shines every 7.5 seconds and is visible for many many miles. The notion of anyone becoming disoriented there is laughable.


"Today the light is lit by two 1000-watt bulbs, which rotate in a counter-clockwise direction, giving the appearance of a flash every 7.5 seconds. The light is visible for approximately 21-24 miles. "

- http://www.fireislandlighthouse.com/html/lighthouse_history.html

OK, good. And while you consider whether I'm just being a total lunatic by suggesting that she died of accidental causes, consider the following:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...charged-stepsons-death-after-being-lost-swamp

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/17/us/4-army-ranger-candidates-die-in-chilly-florida-swamp.html

http://www.turnagaintimes.com/SR09/Mudflats.html

http://www.southwhidbeyrecord.com/news/20435334.html

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/20050504400

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/taah-sh-20040107.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...009/10/15/sea_turtle_rescued_from_cape_marsh/

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/stuck-duck-hunter-rescued-from-forge-river-1.2616178

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/for-li-duck-hunters-rescuers-fit-the-bill-1.2616804

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-12-22/local/17911571_1_duck-hunting-off-duty-cop

http://www.aquaticsintl.com/2011/mar/1103n_epidemic.html
The thousands of children who drown in a village pond or a nearby rice paddy rarely see a hospital,” Scarr said. “This means that for a very long time, child drowning statistics have been grossly under-counted and the enormous scale of this issue has gone by largely unnoticed.”

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_messenger/news/2011/september/25/mud_rescue.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10431704

http://suncoastpasco.tbo.com/conten...s-discovery-of-holiday-woman-stuck-in-m/news/

http://www.adn.com/2009/06/09/825311/inlet-tide-strands-teens-on-mud.html

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/01/16/297931_news.html

http://www.news.com.au/stuck-boat-c...man-near-yeppoon/story-e6freoof-1226067617101

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-bipolar-ii.htm
"Additionally, the manic person may be either paranoid or delusional."

 

[truthspider]

Yes you can see the lighthouse from far away. But the light is not shining brightly on someone 3 miles away.

I've spent plenty nights at Sore Thumb and the lighthouse doesn't light anything up.

If anyone thinks that SG got disoriented and lost, or died of accidental causes than <modsnip>.

That is my opinion only, if anyone else feels the same, feel free to give a thumbs up post.

 

[truthspider]

OK, good. And while you consider whether I'm just being a total lunatic by suggesting that she died of accidental causes, consider the following:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...charged-stepsons-death-after-being-lost-swamp

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/17/us/4-army-ranger-candidates-die-in-chilly-florida-swamp.html

http://www.turnagaintimes.com/SR09/Mudflats.html

http://www.southwhidbeyrecord.com/news/20435334.html

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/20050504400

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/taah-sh-20040107.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...009/10/15/sea_turtle_rescued_from_cape_marsh/

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/stuck-duck-hunter-rescued-from-forge-river-1.2616178

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/for-li-duck-hunters-rescuers-fit-the-bill-1.2616804

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-12-22/local/17911571_1_duck-hunting-off-duty-cop

http://www.aquaticsintl.com/2011/mar/1103n_epidemic.html
The thousands of children who drown in a village pond or a nearby rice paddy rarely see a hospital,&#8221; Scarr said. &#8220;This means that for a very long time, child drowning statistics have been grossly under-counted and the enormous scale of this issue has gone by largely unnoticed.&#8221;

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_messenger/news/2011/september/25/mud_rescue.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10431704

http://suncoastpasco.tbo.com/conten...s-discovery-of-holiday-woman-stuck-in-m/news/

http://www.adn.com/2009/06/09/825311/inlet-tide-strands-teens-on-mud.html

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/01/16/297931_news.html

http://www.news.com.au/stuck-boat-c...man-near-yeppoon/story-e6freoof-1226067617101

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-bipolar-ii.htm
"Additionally, the manic person may be either paranoid or delusional."

Sounds like someone is preparing to defend themselves in court. This is going to be kangaroo court of the highest order. Set the tvr and make some popcorn, this trial will be hilarious. I'm glad it will happen in Suffolk, I am going get a front row seat

 

[kemo]

I'm satisfied that the Shannan Gilbert case has been solved. It was an unfortunate accident that had nothing to do with the Long Island Serial Killing. <modsnip>.

 

[Just K]

All the links in the world will never convince me that SG froze to death or drowned in the spot where she was ultimately recovered. On this point, I will never be persuaded, manipulated or intimidated into believing that either is the truth.

 

[minazoe]

I can't for a minute understand this girl without pants on drowning a hundred feet from the road...the same road that gave up 10 bodies.... a virtual graveyard of sexworkers.

hinky times one trillion.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Personally, I'm on the fence regarding Shannan's death. I can appreciate both sides of the argument.

I'm going to wait for the ME's report.

 

[Just K]

Yes you can see the lighthouse from far away. But the light is not shining brightly on someone 3 miles away.

I've spent plenty nights at Sore Thumb and the lighthouse doesn't light anything up.

It seems like TS is suggesting that it would be difficult to get lost when one has so many good landmarks...the light house light, the street lights on OP, traffic noise to her left and in front of her, the sound of the surf, off in the distance behind her, the sun rising to her right and the lights, off in the distance of the Robt. Moses Bridge.

Just seems ridiculous to suggest that she got lost, froze to death in 55* air temps or drowned in a puddle....when it hadn't rained for quite a long time. Not to mention the fact that a helicopter and dogs were on the hunt for her by 9:00 A M...just a little more than three hours after she supposedly ran into the brushy field behind so many houses.

 

[inspctrgadget]

It seems like TS is suggesting that it would be difficult to get lost when one has so many good landmarks...the light house light, the street lights on OP, traffic noise to her left and in front of her, the sound of the surf, off in the distance behind her, the sun rising to her right and the lights, off in the distance of the Robt. Moses Bridge.

Just seems ridiculous to suggest that she got lost, froze to death in 55* air temps or drowned in a puddle....when it hadn't rained for quite a long time. Not to mention the fact that a helicopter and dogs were on the hunt for her by 9:00 A M...just a little more than three hours after she supposedly ran into the brushy field behind so many houses.

Just K,

I don't feel like I need to convince you, but I think you should carefully review my posts above regarding water temperature, tidal marshes, hypothermia and the tide tables for that area on the week in question.

Your understanding of how bright it was is wrong. This is a dark, remote area. It was 5AM. There was no traffic. Houses would be dark. Sunrise wasn't until 5:48 AM. The highway is not lit up - there are very few lights on Ocean Parkway. Shannan would be slugging her way through at best knee- to chest-high muck and water-filled culverts that would like quicksand, bad enough where her jeans could have been pulled off as she crawled through it trying to free herself. Regardless of whether she could see lights, she was running away from help. It wouldn't have taken long for her to get exhausted and for hypothermia to set in with death shortly following, even as the sun rose with helicopters circling overhead. Water temps were 45 degrees. Air temps were 50 degrees, with 15 MPH gusts, adding wind chill into the equation. Hypothermia could occur in under an hour. This scenario is in no way ridiculous, and a tidal marsh is not a puddle.

 

[WINDSOR]

Some of us seem to be getting quite touchy about opinions, ours and opposing.

So let us try and maintain our composure, because no matter what our opinion is, or what our suspicions are, we could all be very wrong.

Remember the famous words of Leland Gaunt, the shopkeeper in that small Atlantic coastal town in the movie "Needful Things"

"Kill them all. Let God sort them out."

So take a deep breath and count to 10.

 

[Clem Snide]

Careful folks, this is beginning to look like the LISK site. Let's not snipe at each other. Different opinions are a good thing. You have to look at the many angles and try to keep an open mind. I personally like the fact that people have conflicting viewpoints.

We'll all find out who was right and wrong when this whole thing is over.

 

[Just K]

Last thing I will say on this subject...
SG was on the 911 call at JB's until at least 5:13 or 5:14 AM, then she ran to GC's. She was probably still up at GC's until almost 5:30 AM, then she had to run about OB until she passed BB's house and finally enter the brushy terrain. So, most likely it was closer to ten or fifteen minutes before sunrise. By that time, the sun would already begin to cast that early morning greyness that occurs before it officially rises. Just saying, not nearly enough time to freeze to death, lose ones bearings or not see any water that may have been present.

For that matter, the moon was 89% full on the night SG went missing. A nearly full moon, on a clear night, will reflect in any pooling water. She would have seen the water and her mother says that she was deathly afraid of water.

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/zipcode/11701/2010-05-01
In the two weeks preceding SG's disappearance, the total accumulated rainfall was about TWO INCHES.

 

[Salem]

KNOCK IT OFF! Everyone may have their own opinion - leave them alone and let them do as they wish. Stop telling everyone how to think and how to be - it is NOT your place!

And such comments only derail the thread with bickering. So STOP IT! NOW!

Salem

 

[inspctrgadget]

Last thing I will say on this subject...
SG was on the 911 call at JB's until at least 5:13 or 5:14 AM, then she ran to GC's. She was probably still up at GC's until almost 5:30 AM, then she had to run about OB until she passed BB's house and finally enter the brushy terrain. So, most likely it was closer to ten or fifteen minutes before sunrise. By that time, the sun would already begin to cast that early morning greyness that occurs before it officially rises. Just saying, not nearly enough time to freeze to death, lose ones bearings or not see any water that may have been present.

For that matter, the moon was 89% full on the night SG went missing. A nearly full moon, on a clear night, will reflect in any pooling water. She would have seen the water and her mother says that she was deathly afraid of water.

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/zipcode/11701/2010-05-01
In the two weeks preceding SG's disappearance, the total accumulated rainfall was about TWO INCHES.

This is a tidal marsh, affected by both rain and tide. Your suggestion of 2 inches of rain is misleading.

There were record water table levels due to flooding in the area in the prior 30 days. This area was wet. It was not "bushy". It was extremely swampy. The muck would have looked like dirt, and when she stepped in it, she would have been stuck, her fear of water notwithstanding. Making any forward progress through the area would have been extremely difficult.

See the following links:

http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=610418#.TyMlj2HLdCY

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/to...y-april-rainfall-causes-problems-for-farmers/

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q="s...1&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=7983c19a,a3387e5c

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/rainfall_totals_throughout_sta.html

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/nyc_to_set_record_rainfall_totals_NpwXR0NRIVlFcobkioEpTL

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/scientists-flood-water-has-nowhere-to-go-1.1842849

Scientists: Flood water has nowhere to go
"A season of heavy rain has lifted Long Island's water table to new heights, soaking basements and preventing floodwaters from receding as quickly as some might like.

Scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey said Thursday they had seen record-high or near-record-high groundwater levels in many parts of the region - part of an upward trend first noticed in 2005. Between the rising water table..."

GC's call with 911 stopped at 5:23. I'm assuming that Shannan ran into the marsh sometime between 5:23 and sunrise and got disoriented instantly. Much before sunrise at 5:48. By that time, even if she could tell which direction to head, she would have a difficult or impossible time getting there as you've seen from the many examples I posted about people getting stuck in marshes, mangroves, swamps and mudflats. She was stuck in 45-50 degree water and muck until she died. Whether that took an hour, or two hours or three, there was more than enough time and more than enough water for hypothermia to set in.

 

[MrsPC]

Last thing I will say on this subject...
SG was on the 911 call at JB's until at least 5:13 or 5:14 AM, then she ran to GC's. She was probably still up at GC's until almost 5:30 AM, then she had to run about OB until she passed BB's house and finally enter the brushy terrain. So, most likely it was closer to ten or fifteen minutes before sunrise. By that time, the sun would already begin to cast that early morning greyness that occurs before it officially rises. Just saying, not nearly enough time to freeze to death, lose ones bearings or not see any water that may have been present.

For that matter, the moon was 89% full on the night SG went missing. A nearly full moon, on a clear night, will reflect in any pooling water. She would have seen the water and her mother says that she was deathly afraid of water.

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/zipcode/11701/2010-05-01
In the two weeks preceding SG's disappearance, the total accumulated rainfall was about TWO INCHES.

I've posted basically the same thing - stats from weatherunderground, etc and in regard to hypothermia - if Gilbert was running that even lessened her chances of succumbing to the temp or any water she might have been exposed to.

 

[MrsPC]

doesn't amount to anything but Hackett's wife is head of the Heritage program of savethebeaches.net (I know this was previously posted about...)

but I hadn't realized til a couple days ago that they actually have a web cam setup at Oak Beach but it's only viewable during daylight hours I guess (and it says it shows the sunrise over the wetlands so I'm assuming it possibly captures the area where Gilbert was found ??)

http://www.savethebeaches.net/Camdata.html