NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[Claudette]

By the way, there are 5,280 feet in a mile.

So the distance from where she was last seen to where the remains were found today is .38 of a mile (just over 1/3 of a mile) straight through the wetlands.

The distance from today's remains to SG's belongings is .28 (just over a quarter of a mile).

To put this into perspective, her belongings were four NFL football fields (end zone to end zone) away from where the remains were found and the remains were over five and a half football fields away from where she was last observed running.

Don't know if anyone posted it but I saw a map today that showed where her belongings were found and where she was found. BOTH were right off of the road. The distance between the two was astonishing. Also, one has to keep in mind...IF she was walking through there, most likely she was not walking in a straight line. If a person does not have a visual destination to go to, they will veer off course and weave around without knowing it. I doubt she could see more than a few inches in front of her. So, the distance she struggle through, if she walked through the bramble, is actually more than the straight line.

When I saw that map....the question is "is it more likely that she and her belongings were dumped right off the side of the road, or is it more likely that her belongings were all the way on the opposite side of the brambles from her body with a lot of distance...and then she perishes right before she hits the road"

...I'm having trouble finding it but will post if I do. Haven't seen if anyone else has yet.

 

[Claudette]

<rsbm & bbm>

Could you please explain how you conclude that Shannan was able to get to that specific location, but a serial killer was not able to do so ?

Shannan is tiny, very tiny. The SK, a man with more strength, is not new to maneuvering through bramble and other vegetation, as we have seen with 10 other instances. For all we know his job may involve this kind of thing. I doubt Shannan has ever tried to get through terrain like that before. She wouldn't know how to, he would.

 

[Claudette]

Actually there were three points A, B, C:

Point A = Anchor Way to point B
Point B-= personal effects found to point C
Point C = remains found

If she was disoriented and zig-zagging around in her confusion, what are the chances that her travels would result in significant events occurring in a totally straight line drawn on a map?

Just sayin'

Exactly. I would say, take about 1/3 of the total distance walked in a straight line and add that on.

 

[akaney]

That area was ABSOLUTELY searched during the full-scale search back in May!!! I drove down there after the search and I saw all of the papers and markers on the shoulder. The area where the body was found was searched by the police cadets as well as Officer John Malia and his dog Blue!!!

The bramble is not as thick as Dormer says!! It is actually a very thin area of bramble in that area! Especially in early May. That bramble may slow you down, but it is not IMPOSSIBLE to get through!

Hi guys, this is my 1st post. I have been questioning the reason that Officer Malia and Blue started searching the area to begin with last Dec. If I remember correctly they said he was using Shannan Gilbert's missing person case as a training exercise for Blue. If this is the case why was he searching 5 to 6 miles away on the opposite side of the OP from where Shannan was last seen. If he was indeed looking for Shannan why did he not look on the OP in Oak Beach, which is exactly where her body was found. If he had maybe he would have found Shannan but not the GB4.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

I am glad you mentioned this Clem. IIRC the A&E special mentioned that all the remains were skeletonized. When I heard this I wondered how ALC's remains could be skeletonized after only 3 months in the fall from Sept - Dec.

Doesn't it get cold on LI during those months? Would that not slow the decomp and preserve some tissue on a body wrapped in burlap? Sorry to be so graphic:/

It makes me wonder if Nancy was correct....

And last year it got cold starting from September. It was an unusually cold fall and winter.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

The statement that the victims were "defleshed" was only mentioned once and on the Nancy Grace Show only. IMO it was a sensational word she just threw out there to get everybody's attention. Skeletal remains would have been a more appropriate and correct description. I never heard her say it again. CNN probably reined her in. I also loathe Nancy Grace and Rita Crosby for their dishonesty.

She just about went into detail about the bodies being defleshed. They didn't throw out a sensational word. They reported it as fact.

 

[the quiet girl]

I have been looking a bit into proof that Shannan's body was there from day one.
Google Earth has the latest image from 9/19/2010 and it is hard too see up close clearly on most images. Hence what brought me to thinking of vegetation changes.
Now would be a great time for those hyperspectral imagery time lapse of the area.
The FBI was reported to have this ability on the helicopters.

Now this is a link on Wikipedia that talks about decomp stages and gives a small photo timeline using a pig, some may not like it. It is no as bad as it could be thou, imo.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition"]Decomposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

My thoughts are that surrounding vegetation would go dark or die off at first then towards the end would be more lush due to the fertilizing of the ground.

If this is correct then the images would show proof how long she was there.
The other side note is the wetland would it be considered a bog? Not unheard of peat bogs are not only in Europe. I only mention this because it would have an effect on decomp.

 

[snapdragon2]

Not if you step in a two ft deep puddle. Also, your torso is where most of your core temp is.

But I was referring to what some people have suggested was paradoxical undressing (from hypothermia) - removing your warm clothing even as you are freezing to death. So I imagine you'd just feel hot and start taking stuff off - it wouldn't matter that your top is in actuality keeping you warmer. It's easier to take off, you can do it while you're still moving, and it's the first thing people remove when they undress, or at least I think most people would remove a top before they'd remove pants. It seems to me paradoxical undressing would have nothing to do with what's wet and what isn't.

 

[MrsPC]

NY Post photo - law enf standing around remains

http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2011/12/14/news/web_photos/121311Gilbert01kc054813--520x350.jpg

 

[snapdragon2]

If Shannan stepped into one of those trenches and sunk into the silt up to her thighs, she may have had no choice but to shed her jeans to get out of there. Heck, I have ventured out into the marsh behind my house to clean up trash and have sunk down to my chins and lost my shoes in the process. I don't know if this is what happened... but I I were stuck in marsh muck and couldn't free myself due to my jeans being wet and heavy full of sand and felt I was being chased, you betcha I would shed them in order to get the He!! out of there.

I am still on the fence til we get more info, FWIW.

wm

To be honest, I can see someone going in there to hide, and/or get away undetected. Not only might you think you can hide better, but you might also think you'd be harder to follow or find, or that if whoever was chasing you didn't actually see you go in, they might not be inclined to look there (if they didn't have to!) But isn't there a chance that once in there, you might be inclined to move stealthily, so as not to be detected? That is - the assumption is she would continue running helter skelter through there, thereby further endangering herself (falling and injuring herself or getting stuck or drowning, etc etc.) and maybe she would, but who's to say she wouldn't in fact slow down a bit and just trudge through there, trying to stay quiet and undetected. I would. Then again, who knows what you'd do in a panic. But I'm just saying IF she did go in there - which wouldn't be illogical - I don't think it's a given she would still be running amok, thereby causing her own death.

 

[Soulmagent]

Actually there were three points A, B, C:

Point A = Anchor Way to point B
Point B-= personal effects found to point C
Point C = remains found

If she was disoriented and zig-zagging around in her confusion, what are the chances that her travels would result in significant events occurring in a totally straight line drawn on a map?

Just sayin'

Really seems unlikey since it is human nature to walk in circles. The SK seems to like straight lines. How would The AB an C line up on a compass. Would it point to East ?

 

[Salem]

Police conducted another search for Shannan and located a body.

Please discuss it here.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/0...resume-search-for-missing-prostitute-shannan/

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Sillybilly]

Really seems unlikey since it is human nature to walk in circles. The SK seems to like straight lines. How would The AB an C line up on a compass. Would it point to East ?

Looks like it would be a more northeasterly direction Soul. I note in the link above with the pic of investigators standing around the remains, if what I think is the skull .. does not appear the body was facing east (by the direction of the sun and resulting shadows).

What does puzzle me in that same pic though is that the blue canopy that was erected is not over the remains, but is over some strange white item, possibly some equipment brought along by the ME? Maybe the canopy was moved to allow for better lighting to work in.

Link from MrsPC's post above:
http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2011/12/14/news/web_photos/121311Gilbert01kc054813--520x350.jpg

 

[scandi]

Looks like it would be a more northeasterly direction Soul. I note in the link above with the pic of investigators standing around the remains, if what I think is the skull .. does not appear the body was facing east (by the direction of the sun and resulting shadows).

What does puzzle me in that same pic though is that the blue canopy that was erected is not over the remains, but is over some strange white item, possibly some equipment brought along by the ME? Maybe the canopy was moved to allow for better lighting to work in.

Link from MrsPC's post above:
http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2011/12/14/news/web_photos/121311Gilbert01kc054813--520x350.jpg

Hi Sillybilly, Reading your post made me wonder about the remains. Evidently they were not in a wrapping of any kind, like burlap, as the tags usually spot the location of individual bones, right? We've read allot here about the possibility the body was moved to this location since May.

If she was murdered do you think he wanted her found? And if he laid her out on top of the ground, how long do you think it would take for her bones to separate out like that?

I guess that might tell about how long ago the remains were put there.

 

[dcgrumpy]

And last year it got cold starting from September. It was an unusually cold fall and winter.

It wasn't cold in September and October

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KFRG/2010/9/15/MonthlyHistory.html#calendar

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KFRG/2010/10/15/MonthlyHistory.html#calendar

 

[minazoe]

its hard to tell from the photo how scattered...remembering the water factor and the Caylee Anthony crime scene, it looks about the same...

Seaslug...I like your perspective on her calls. I started to think that since this was not a Craigslist generated out call and was set up thru MP...that MP may have set up something other than what Shannan had in mind.

 

[minazoe]

http://thesop.org/story/20111215/sh...e-long-island-serial-killer-stalking-her.html

hmmm...wonder if someone made a drug fueled confession and then told Shannen MP knew all about it.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Perhaps my following statement is my personal Sherlock Holmes moment but one or more individuals are responsible for the murder of this woman and they would be GC, MP, CPH or JB.

What is it that we believe?

One or more of them is the sk.

None of them are the sk as they just happened to only kill Shannon for whatever reason.

There is some creepy mess that has been going down in OB where these men have a certain gathering where they murder a prositute. Maybe they are involved in some sort of satanic practices and rituals and MP is the go to guy to bring the hooker.

Perhaps Shannon suffered her own demise accidentally out of a bad paranoid trip and coincidentally
led to the discovery of others.

While running away, Shannon was accosted by the sk who is neither of the four men.

The sk is from OB but is not either of the four men.

 

[minazoe]

Pak wouldn't have waited for her outside if he had a deal where she wouldn't be coming back, Unless he was a bag man and agreed to disposing of her.

 

[Clone101]

Anyone recall how long it took to confrim the ID's of the other bodies found?
Thought we would have found out already if it was Shannan or not..

Was thinking to myself that its possibly taking longer due to waiting for dna results, As MG didnt want to know unless it was 100% sure?
(last part about MG is my take from MSM, not fact)