Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[carbuff]

I still have to wonder whether there's a mistake of some kind with Vicki...sigh.

 

[Roselvr]

I assumed so, there was no way she hadn't been mentioned. Just couldn't find any record of her being talked about. I don't call anything in until I know the person hasn't been submitted, I refuse to submit duplicates. Thanks for clarifying.

She was suggested on MVJDs FB originally

 

[Roselvr]

I still have to wonder whether there's a mistake of some kind with Vicki...sigh.

MVJD never had a child, Vickie (NamUs profile) did. Vickie kept in touch with her family until she vanished into thin air. I think she's either buried in a paupers grave with no online record whether as a Jane Doe or in another last name that family does not know like a few of our Does have been found and not yet entered into a database. I entered her in 2016, she should have hit if a match. I looked at exclusions, MVJD is not listed so if someone wants to contact Dustin go ahead; ask she be added to the list so there's no confusion.

I feel MVJD is not from America.

 

[Alleykins]

Is MVJD on DDP's list? If so, I wonder if we're going to run into the same thing as isotope testing with accreditation. Would that apply to DDP, where they're a non-profit?

 

[Roselvr]

Is MVJD on DDP's list? If so, I wonder if we're going to run into the same thing as isotope testing with accreditation. Would that apply to DDP, where they're a non-profit?

All I know is LE have spoken to DDP. I don't know more then that. Will ask Jess or Rats to stop in.

They do not know where MVJD is buried last I heard

 

[rats]

I have made DDP aware of MVJD several times, and have made Det. DiMase aware of DDP several times. It is up to them to contact each other and arrange, but he needs to jump through a ton of hoops and I honestly haven't heard anything from him since May 5... I'm not holding out too much hope here about DDP. I'll probably make a few more comments on their page using the MVJD Facebook page though, see if we can garner a bit more attention/a few more likes that way. Maybe that will lead to them looking into it more.

Also yeah. Big question marks as to her burial which complicates things.

 

[Al Ka]

Rats, thank you for doing all that work for her. I was also not aware you were part of MVJD FB page. Kudos.

It would be good if they jumped at least one hoop in 30 years of her case. For some reason it feels like case is being stalled or pushed aside on purpose for some unknown reason. Westchester County LE holding some of her evidence and not cooperating again for unknown reason with Mount Vernon LE. I always wondered why...
Nice though that she is in Namus and Vicap

My basic questions or tasks for LE in her case would be:

- to locate her body
- DNA - re examine her and possible perps DNA (here was the biggest problem as far as I remember as it seems her DNA is or was stored with Westchester LE and not with Mount Vermont LE and also was not stored in national database.) Do they still have it or is it lost? Would they admit if it was?
- to interview MA person whose partial DNA was found under her finger nails. Yes, it was only partial, but with no leads and no anything why they don't grab this even though small chance to gain perhaps some information?

In my dreams:
- Isotope testing done once they locate her body
- DDP help in her case (if LE would ever call DDP or allow each other in NY to handle her DNA and then allow DDP to work on it and her case).

Just for information - (Details of her DNA: mtDNA and nucDNA available. Complete mitochondrial DNA profile and complete STR profile uploaded to NDIS.)

I am sure others can think of some other points how this case could move a bit forward.

Is there any way we could officially push for some authorities to look deeper in her case and re examine everything? I mean it is murder case after all.

 

[Roselvr]

I have made DDP aware of MVJD several times, and have made Det. DiMase aware of DDP several times. It is up to them to contact each other and arrange, but he needs to jump through a ton of hoops and I honestly haven't heard anything from him since May 5... I'm not holding out too much hope here about DDP. I'll probably make a few more comments on their page using the MVJD Facebook page though, see if we can garner a bit more attention/a few more likes that way. Maybe that will lead to them looking into it more.

Also yeah. Big question marks as to her burial which complicates things.

Thanks for stopping in! Unfortunately DDP isn't going to go out of their way to contact MVJD's LE. I'm sure they have a lot of cases where LE will contact them. They need to jump on this for obvious reasons.

Rats, thank you for doing all that work for her. I was also not aware you were part of MVJD FB page. Kudos.

It would be good if they jumped at least one hoop in 30 years of her case. For some reason it feels like case is being stalled or pushed aside on purpose for some unknown reason. Westchester County LE holding some of her evidence and not cooperating again for unknown reason with Mount Vernon LE. I always wondered why...
Nice though that she is in Namus and Vicap

My basic questions or tasks for LE in her case would be:

- to locate her body
- DNA - re examine her and possible perps DNA (here was the biggest problem as far as I remember as it seems her DNA is or was stored with Westchester LE and not with Mount Vermont LE and also was not stored in national database.) Do they still have it or is it lost? Would they admit if it was?
- to interview MA person whose partial DNA was found under her finger nails. Yes, it was only partial, but with no leads and no anything why they don't grab this even though small chance to gain perhaps some information?

In my dreams:
- Isotope testing done once they locate her body
- DDP help in her case (if LE would ever call DDP or allow each other in NY to handle her DNA and then allow DDP to work on it and her case).

Just for information - (Details of her DNA: mtDNA and nucDNA available. Complete mitochondrial DNA profile and complete STR profile uploaded to NDIS.)

I am sure others can think of some other points how this case could move a bit forward.

Is there any way we could officially push for some authorities to look deeper in her case and re examine everything? I mean it is murder case after all.

Agree.
With isotopes, they need an accredited place to do it which is why it hasn't been done yet. They really should jump on the finger nail DNA with at least Parabond and also let them do her DNA if DDP can't for some reason. It's the only way they're gonna solve this case any time soon.

 

[rats]

Rats, thank you for doing all that work for her. I was also not aware you were part of MVJD FB page. Kudos.

It would be good if they jumped at least one hoop in 30 years of her case. For some reason it feels like case is being stalled or pushed aside on purpose for some unknown reason. Westchester County LE holding some of her evidence and not cooperating again for unknown reason with Mount Vernon LE. I always wondered why...
Nice though that she is in Namus and Vicap

My basic questions or tasks for LE in her case would be:

- to locate her body
- DNA - re examine her and possible perps DNA (here was the biggest problem as far as I remember as it seems her DNA is or was stored with Westchester LE and not with Mount Vermont LE and also was not stored in national database.) Do they still have it or is it lost? Would they admit if it was?
- to interview MA person whose partial DNA was found under her finger nails. Yes, it was only partial, but with no leads and no anything why they don't grab this even though small chance to gain perhaps some information?

In my dreams:
- Isotope testing done once they locate her body
- DDP help in her case (if LE would ever call DDP or allow each other in NY to handle her DNA and then allow DDP to work on it and her case).

Just for information - (Details of her DNA: mtDNA and nucDNA available. Complete mitochondrial DNA profile and complete STR profile uploaded to NDIS.)

I am sure others can think of some other points how this case could move a bit forward.

Is there any way we could officially push for some authorities to look deeper in her case and re examine everything? I mean it is murder case after all.

Unfortunately I think isotope testing is a lost cause. Jess and I are the ones who run the FB + made the petition, etc. But unfortunately, I do not think that the higher ups at the MVPD wanted to do it. Maybe because they may or may not have the body (I don't know if they just wouldn't share with me or if Det. DiMase doesn't know either), maybe because it costs too much to exhume, maybe because of one of the reasons I was given: they don't think they have an accredited lab that would do it in NY (some sort of weird rule).

I want the DNA found under the fingernails to go straight into GEDmatch. Fingers crossed.

No idea how to push them harder, though. I feel bad because Det DiMase does his best but he also is a very very very busy man.

 

[Alleykins]

Thanks for all you do, Rats and Jess!

 

[jessr927]

Aw shucks Alleykins! We are happy to do it.

At one point Det. DiMase told me that the county OCME would not even tell HIM the location of her body! (not without filling out a bunch of paperwork anyway). Part of me thinks the ME does not have the records of her burial any longer. I'm trying to think of how we can do an end run around it and get the info?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

This may be a starting place. JK,but .....not.

Guide to Local Cemeteries Near Westchester, New York

 

[carbuff]

I've heard the part about issues with lab accreditation in New York (and some other states) from other sources, in other cases. What's good enough for a personal profile or perhaps archaeological remains isn't necessarily up to the standard required for forensic analysis. So there are long waits at the certified labs.

 

[Al Ka]

Aw shucks Alleykins! We are happy to do it.

At one point Det. DiMase told me that the county OCME would not even tell HIM the location of her body! (not without filling out a bunch of paperwork anyway). Part of me thinks the ME does not have the records of her burial any longer. I'm trying to think of how we can do an end run around it and get the info?

Not sure what OCME stands for but I find it really, really strange they won't give answers to main detective of her case.

It is very likely they do not know or have no records but it seems they all are worried of consequences of some mess from 30 years ago rather then simply saying to detective they do not know. But again, why so worried about that now? I wonder if there is different reason they all not cooperating together or unable to release information between each other. Some restriction on her case? Or some other strange reason?

We all assume she was burried, we have no confirmation of that yet... And if she was it could have been month or even quite some time after her demise.

Now, we know that original detective of her case passed away and case went through many detectives. But what about original coroner/medical examiner? Is it possible to trace who it was and arrange some kind of small interview?

I would suggest also to call or email local coroner/ME about what were their usual practices at that time. How long usually they kept the body and where they usually send them for burial. If it was send to different places or certain specific area. If length of keeping the body was different in case of unknown deceased. I would probably not ask them specifically about MVJD case, but just these information in general. This might not give us all answers but it might send us at some direction of search.

 

[Al Ka]

Ok, I found out what OCME stands for - Office of Chief Medical Examiner
Link for NY Office of Chief Medical Examiner

Lots of information in that link which might be relevant to MVJD case.

1. Why is a body brought to the Office of Chief Medical Examiner?
Bodies of deceased persons are brought to this office because the law requires that the Chief Medical Examiner investigate deaths of persons dying from criminal violence, by accident, by suicide, suddenly when in apparent health, when unattended by a physician, in a correctional facility, or in any suspicious or unusual manner. The medical examiner is responsible for determining the cause and manner of death.

A body also may be brought to the Office of Chief Medical Examiner if the identity of the deceased or of the next of kin is unknown. The body is retained by this office for a reasonable period of time before interment at City Cemetery or until the next of kin can be located by the Police Department and identification established and funeral arrangements made.

City Burial
OCME's responsibility as the City mortuary includes caring for all remains in our custody with dignity and respect. There may be times in this work when remains are unidentified and/or unclaimed.

Unidentified and/or unclaimed remains are interred in City Cemetery on Hart Island within a reasonable period of time. If remains are subsequently identified, or if a family later wishes to claim their loved one, the remains can be disinterred for private burial.
===
Her autopsy was done by OCME (apparently), so did she at the end end up at Hart Island?

Anyway, still worth to make those calls to coroners or even to OCME and ask general questions.

 

[carbuff]

This information is for the OCME of New York City. I think our Jane Doe would be OCME for Westchester County.

Ok, I found out what OCME stands for - Office of Chief Medical Examiner
Link for NY Office of Chief Medical Examiner

Lots of information in that link which might be relevant to MVJD case.

1. Why is a body brought to the Office of Chief Medical Examiner?
Bodies of deceased persons are brought to this office because the law requires that the Chief Medical Examiner investigate deaths of persons dying from criminal violence, by accident, by suicide, suddenly when in apparent health, when unattended by a physician, in a correctional facility, or in any suspicious or unusual manner. The medical examiner is responsible for determining the cause and manner of death.

A body also may be brought to the Office of Chief Medical Examiner if the identity of the deceased or of the next of kin is unknown. The body is retained by this office for a reasonable period of time before interment at City Cemetery or until the next of kin can be located by the Police Department and identification established and funeral arrangements made.

City Burial
OCME's responsibility as the City mortuary includes caring for all remains in our custody with dignity and respect. There may be times in this work when remains are unidentified and/or unclaimed.

Unidentified and/or unclaimed remains are interred in City Cemetery on Hart Island within a reasonable period of time. If remains are subsequently identified, or if a family later wishes to claim their loved one, the remains can be disinterred for private burial.
===
Her autopsy was done by OCME (apparently), so did she at the end end up at Hart Island?

Anyway, still worth to make those calls to coroners or even to OCME and ask general questions.

 

[Al Ka]

This information is for the OCME of New York City. I think our Jane Doe would be OCME for Westchester County.

Here is link for OCME in Westchester, there is only one - M E

I came across their office in Valhalla yesterday but was a bit confused about it. Seems a bit far. But they are registered as OCME, so I guess this might be the right office.

 

[leilarose68]

I have made DDP aware of MVJD several times, and have made Det. DiMase aware of DDP several times. It is up to them to contact each other and arrange, but he needs to jump through a ton of hoops and I honestly haven't heard anything from him since May 5... I'm not holding out too much hope here about DDP. I'll probably make a few more comments on their page using the MVJD Facebook page though, see if we can garner a bit more attention/a few more likes that way. Maybe that will lead to them looking into it more.

Also yeah. Big question marks as to her burial which complicates things.

Yeah apparently there is SO MUCH involved before DDP can take on a case, like months of looking through evidence lockers, consulting higher-ups in LE, getting permissions, etc etc... it takes a very long time. If he's already super busy then it seems unlikely this will happen for quite awhile

 

[carbuff]

Here is link for OCME in Westchester, there is only one - M E

I came across their office in Valhalla yesterday but was a bit confused about it. Seems a bit far. But they are registered as OCME, so I guess this might be the right office.

That does look like the right place. Westchester is quite a large county; I'm surprised they seem to have such a small medical examiner's office. But I can see how they might have quite a load just keeping up with current cases.

 

[jessr927]

Confirming that the Westchester ME is in Valhalla. Westchester is the county itself, Mt. Vernon is a city within the county. Most of the county's official places (courthouses, jail, ME) are in White Plains or Valhalla. I spoke with the ME's office a few years ago (2016?) and tried to get the location of her body. They told me to submit a written request. I submitted one from myself and one on behalf of Det. DiMase, with his permission. Did not get a response.