GUILTY NY - Phoenix & Luna Rodriguez, 1, twins, die in hot car, Bronx, 26 July 2019 *No jail*

[Safeguard]

Do you seriously think that this man is competent to take care of children?

He has adult children,so apparently yes. He is.
From all accounts I could find, he was an excellent father. So you really think he's planning on making a habit of this?

 

[blue22]

He has adult children,so apparently yes. He is.
From all accounts I could find, he was an excellent father. So you really think he's planning on making a habit of this?

If having adult children is evidence of competency, have I got some news for you. LOL

I am shocked he was able to just return to his children, honestly. (Unless he wasn't, I'm not sure if I've read that or not.) He has been charged with VERY serious crimes that should not allow contact with his children. CPS should be all over this right now.

 

[Safeguard]

I hope the penalty fits the crime. The littles were adorable. I heard a cracking sound when my heart broke looking at them.

I can't even fathom how Dad will deal with the tusinami of pain. God have mercy.

When Bodie Miller's toddler daughter Emmy downed in backyard pool, no charges were brought... I would love to know why that is...

 

[mickey2942]

I hope the penalty fits the crime. The littles were adorable. I heard a cracking sound when my heart broke looking at them.

I can't even fathom how Dad will deal with the tusinami of pain. God have mercy.

When Bodie Miller's toddler daughter Emmy downed in backyard pool, no charged were brought... I would love to know why that is...

I agree. It seems like there is a definite bias when it comes to charging people who have children die in their care. That is a problem.

 

[Safeguard]

If having adult children is evidence of competency, have I got some news for you. LOL

I am shocked he was able to just return to his children, honestly. (Unless he wasn't, I'm not sure if I've read that or not.) He has been charged with VERY serious crimes that should not allow contact with his children. CPS should be all over this right now.

Yeah, not sure either...said he was released, but nothing else. If I were in his shoes right now, I'd need to be hospitalized.

 

[blue22]

I hope the penalty fits the crime. The littles were adorable. I heard a cracking sound when my heart broke looking at them.

I can't even fathom how Dad will deal with the tusinami of pain. God have mercy.

When Bodie Miller's toddler daughter Emmy downed in backyard pool, no charges were brought... I would love to know why that is...

I thought their child died in a neighbor's pool.

 

[Gardenista]

Yeah, not sure either...said he was released, but nothing else. If I were in his shoes right now, If need to be hospitalized.

Same, or I would be under my bed in the fetal position. But he was spotted outside of his house today. I thought maybe he was going to see his attorney, but he was dressed in gym clothes.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I hope the penalty fits the crime. The littles were adorable. I heard a cracking sound when my heart broke looking at them.

I can't even fathom how Dad will deal with the tusinami of pain. God have mercy.

When Bodie Miller's toddler daughter Emmy downed in backyard pool, no charges were brought... I would love to know why that is...

Yes - it seems like the law could be more creative (?) when it comes to this. Yes, they have paid a massive price, but at the same time, children are dead due to carelessness. Prison doesn't seem right to me, but I do think some very strict service and community education requirements may help the parent heal and help prevent the next tragedy (though there's always another one coming, sadly).

 

[Safeguard]

I thought their child died in a neighbor's pool.

Thats right, a "neighbors" backyard pool. But she was with in her mothers care, So...?

 

[blue22]

Thats right, a "neighbors" backyard pool. But she was with in her mothers care, So...?

So I just read an article. They were all there with the neighbors and she was quiet for a short moment, which was not normal for her. They rushed out and she was resuscitated, but her brain suffered too much damage.

To me, that is vastly different than a child in a car for the entire workday. Or, forgetting to take your child out of the car. Children can slip out of site and drown within an incredibly short period of time. It can take as little as 20 seconds for drowning to be fatal. They didn't forget her. They knew something was immediately amiss.

 

[Laughing]

Six tips to protect kids from the dangers of hot cars

Six Tips to protect kids from the dangers of hot cars

We cannot change the past; we will shape the future.

My name is Laughing, and from now on my Baby Shower Gift is the stuffed animal recommended in this article.

JMHO YMMV

 

[blue22]

First off, IMO given the current information I don't believe this man intentionally left his twins in a hot car. That said, I have a hard time with the notion of "he/she has suffered enough" declarations. As already noted, the law often treats a forgetful parent differently from a babysitter or daycare worker when a child dies from hyperthermia while on their watch. I'm not sure why that is. A caregiver is a caregiver, paid or not.

Also, it's expected that laws differ from state to state just as laws on other deaths differ - i.e. assisted suicide, vehicular deaths - so it's not surprising that we see differing charges depending on location.

Still, if a driver experienced the same circumstances; stress, lack of sleep due to caring for young children, a change in routine, etc. and dozed off for an instant while driving and ran into a group of children at a bus stop, killing one or more, would we be having the same discussion? Why wouldn't we think they "suffered enough?"

If science ultimately supports the theory of "forgotten baby syndrome" aka the "swiss cheese model" then lawmakers must rethink how the caregivers - parents or otherwise - are treated.

My own personal opinion is that I am responsible for my child and if I have a lapse in that responsibility, intentional or not, then I must be prepared to face the legal consequences. MOO.

I agree. Personally... I don't think anguish should be a legally mitigating factor.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Why isn't there a gadget, a two-part gadget, where one part attaches to a carseat and the other part to your car key or keyring, and it sounds an alarm if those two items get more than, say, 50 or 100 feet from each other while the buckles of the carseat are still closed.

In fact I think carseat manufacturers should include this in their product, because many people wouldn't buy it separately, thinking they don't need it because "that would never happen to me".

I know it's a shallow comparison, but for the last 20 years or so, I have gone outside to a thermometer shelter each afternoon and noted the day's high and low temperatures, then gone inside to record those numbers. I have been amazed at how easily and often I don't recall the numbers fifteen seconds after I looked.

In large part it's the daily routine-ness of it that makes it so easily forgettable, and that's the aspect I think is relevant here. Your brain remembers all the recent repeats of this activity and simply thinks that one of those memories must have been today. Taking a daily pill would be similar, and look at all the gadgets and apps and handy tricks we have to help us remember those.

tl;dr -- IMO it's not a measure of how important the thing is to you, it's a measure of how your brain deals with repetitive/routine activities. I think there are some easily-implemented solutions, but the hard part is getting people to realize they are at risk and it's no insult to admit it.

 

[mickey2942]

Six tips to protect kids from the dangers of hot cars

Six Tips to protect kids from the dangers of hot cars

We cannot change the past; we will shape the future.

My name is Laughing, and from now on my Baby Shower Gift is the stuffed animal recommended in this article.

JMHO YMMV

If the parent forgot the baby, why would a stuffed animal make a difference?

 

[Laughing]

If the parent forgot the baby, why would a stuffed animal make a difference?

Perhaps the article wasn't read???

Six tips to protect kids from the dangers of hot cars

 

[blue22]

Why isn't there a gadget, a two-part gadget, where one part attaches to a carseat and the other part to your car key or keyring, and it sounds an alarm if those two items get more than, say, 50 or 100 feet from each other while the buckles of the carseat are still closed.

In fact I think carseat manufacturers should include this in their product, because many people wouldn't buy it separately, thinking they don't need it because "that would never happen to me".

I know it's a shallow comparison, but for the last 20 years or so, I have gone outside to a thermometer shelter each afternoon and noted the day's high and low temperatures, then gone inside to record those numbers. I have been amazed at how easily and often I don't recall the numbers fifteen seconds after I looked.

In large part it's the daily routine-ness of it that makes it so easily forgettable, and that's the aspect I think is relevant here. Your brain remembers all the recent repeats of this activity and simply thinks that one of those memories must have been today. Taking a daily pill would be similar, and look at all the gadgets and apps and handy tricks we have to help us remember those.

tl;dr -- IMO it's not a measure of how important the thing is to you, it's a measure of how your brain deals with repetitive/routine activities. I think there are some easily-implemented solutions, but the hard part is getting people to realize they are at risk and it's no insult to admit it.

Except that with forgotten baby syndrome, something is OUT of routine, and the parent is on autopilot for their normal routine. Like, a parent doesn't normally take a child to daycare, but on this day they do. Their brain autopilots to their normal, non daycare routine.

This particular father took the children to daycare as a matter of routine. He even remembered to drop off one child, thus seeing the others at the same time. I am assuming he would have to remove the twins from their seats to take the other child in, unless they have a curbside pickup of children.

 

[Safeguard]

One of the reasons I posted so little on the Cooper Harris case was, it seemed to me, that these cases bring out the worst in us.

If my child, died due to an uncharacteristic memory lapse , a fatal memory lapse, there would be nothing the justice system could do to me, that would be more punitive than the personal hell I would sentence myself to.

I can't wrap my mind around the mentality of those who feel a "pile on" is a good idea, in these situations.

I mean, have we no heart? Have we no soul? is compassion not trending right now? WHAT more do you want from this man and his family?

Why, on earth, do we seek vengence when, the ultimate pain has been had?

These are not "murderers". This is not Ted Bundy here. What do you think these toddlers would want to have happen to dad?

I was relieved that Bodie Miller and his wife were able to grieve that gorgeous baby without secondary trauma from the legal system. I hope the same thing happen for this man and his family

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If the parent forgot the baby, why would a stuffed animal make a difference?

The idea is that when the baby is in the carseat, the stuffed animal goes in the front seat to serve as a reminder.

But personally I think that design is too easily 'sloppified', meaning the stuffed animal might be left in the front seat all the time instead of being put in the carseat when there's no baby in the car, and if that happens it will quickly become normal enough to not serve as a mental reminder.

@blue22 I also agree that we can have difficulty remembering things we want to remember when our routine is disturbed. Most of the time a routine works well, which is why we have them.

What I was getting at is not the remembering to do something initially -- our sense of routine (or our to-do list) should remind us, but it obviously fails sometimes. What I was referring to is the remembering afterwards -- like throughout the day did this dad think/feel like he had dropped off the kids? Probably so -- but it was actually his memories of all the other recent dropoffs.

All these comments about memories are MOO. But I still think someone should invent this gadget.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Safeguard, your post is very compassionate and eloquent. The statement about what the toddlers would have wanted made me tear up, because of course, small children forgive. That is what they do. They forgive so many of our intentional and unintentional wrongs. But I think what people are (partly) looking for is for the law to be a deterrent. For there to be a case that makes every parent think twice and look twice before they shut that car door for the day. For them to all use stuffed animals AND apps AND sensors. If only.

 

[gitana1]

Well put, thank you. Some of these predispositions also have to do with external factors (such as access to health care, trauma from war, overwork due to economic circumstances). I was Googling a bit to see the global statistics on these deaths, and I found an interesting article about British Columbia and Quebec and BC's backing of technology to prevent this. From Vancouver Sun: Baby death in hot car: Quebec coroners have twice recommended alarms in all cars.

I would like to see some support for that here in the US, where these deaths seem to be much more common (although climate change may well increase the numbers elsewhere in the future). From BBC: The children left behind in hot cars

One thing I notice is that it's overwhelmingly fathers when a parent is to blame.