NY - Search for escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #3

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I'm Canadian and take no offence, it was reported here in the first day or so about the prison break it was stated that all the different police forces have been notified just to be on the alert.

If I were the escapee's I would have crossed that border and split up. There are miles and miles of unsecure borders between the US and Canada.

If they have crossed into Canada, they could be anywhere they will probably go undetected until they do something to bring attention to themselves. If there is a confirmed sighting, you can rest assured that we have some pretty good tacticle teams, they will be hunted for the fugitives that they are.

I've been on edge ever since the prison break, if I look at a map, the closest place to the prison for freedom is Canada,
 
AMHERST, NY??
Holy crap! That's where my son lives during the school year!
That is a huge college town. UBuff, Buffstate, Erie.
Very scary.
 
Thora_Jay said:
There are conflicting statements pertaining to the paintings;

Link here








Link to CNN quote

So which report is true?
Click to expand...

JMO
Im more and more convinced that poor Lyle was just very naive and had nothing to do with it at all.

The poor guy was taken advantage from Tilly. I think she purposely witheld all information from him about the affair and about the breakout until the news started breaking in the news and he started to ask her questions about it in the hospital.

I think she went to the hospital for her own selfish protection. Leaving her husband and anyone else at her house to be victims of Matt and Sweat as she knew they needed a ride and might come to her house to get the car.

She was probably shocked when he came back to the hospital and was not dead.

I have zero sympathy for her and I think Lyle needs to sever all ties with her for his own safety.

She is the type that would do it again to him. She seems to like to cheat. Lyle of course was the one who she cheated with on her first husband so he is not totally innocent but he has been faithful for past 20 years and she has not. She cheated on first husband and now on Lyle so she has a problem. She likes to cheat.

We know Matt manipulated and used her but she also allowed that to happen. She willingly went along every step of the way. Going as far to accept art drawings of her own family.

Its just incredible. Can you imagine Lyles reaction as she brings the paintings home.

Tilly: "Hey honey , guess what I got. This prisoner decided to draw a nice picture of our son. And here is one of our dog. Arent they great?"

Geeez. And you can just imagine how Matt went about working with her. It was most likely something like this:

Matt: "Hey Tilly, Ill make a nice drawing of your son for you if you come with me to the meat locker after our shift?"

"Hey Tilly, Ill make another nice drawing of your dog for you if you meet me in the meat locker?"

"Hey Tilly, since we are such good "friends", can you bring me in some hacksaw blades? "

"Hey Tilly, we can ride off in the sunset together and I can take care of Lyle for you if you just meet me at the manhole cover"

All the while, Tilly is going along with it every step of the way and keeping Lyle in the dark. He really is lucky to be alive.
He needs to stay away from her. She made her bed alright and now she needs to deal with it on her own.
 
Lyle knew about the affair with Sweat. Or at least about the investigation. Sweat approached him to discuss the allegations with him. I posted a quote and link about that yesterday, earlier in the thread, and I think someone else re-posted it earlier today maybe. I do feel sorry for Lyle though, for sure.
 
GGE said:
Lyle knew about the affair with Sweat. Or at least about the investigation. Sweat approached him to discuss the allegations with him. I posted a quote and link about that yesterday, earlier in the thread, and I think someone else re-posted it earlier today maybe. I do feel sorry for Lyle though, for sure.
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I saw an interview with Lyle's lawyer and the laywer claimed he did not know that they were having sex together. He is mad at himself for being so naive. He did know about the investigation but he thought they were just good friends.

The writing was on the wall for him but I guess he never thought she would do something like that. I am pretty sure that Tilly was denying stuff to him during that time so he chose to believe her and that was his mistake. She most likely lied to his face on multiple occasions.

Including lying the day of the escape as she goes to the hospital to protect herself.
All indications seem like she did not tell of the escape plans until after news started breaking.
 
GGE said:
(anyone watching the show on ID channel, the description of what Sweat did was very much shortened here and wasn't quite 100% accurate either. If you want the most "real" whole story to the best of my knowledge, I'd go here - http://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2015/06/10/tarsia-files-david-sweat/28735471/ )
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Thanks for posting! This is a great article that gives good insight into the mind of this killer and some clues as to what he may be doing now.

1) Sweat said in the past that if the police came after him, he'd blow them away, rather than go back to prison. That's precisely what he did in 2002, when he shot police officer Tarsia, then ran him over with his car. That's probably what he'd do now if he has managed to get a firearm.

2) In 2002, Sweat and his partner in crime stole a Winnebago camper, and parked it on a little-used road in the woods of Kirkwood (just a couple miles from my in-laws' farm). Their plan was to hide out there. Except that they got caught when they left the woods to steal more vehicles and firearms. (wonder if any campers have gone missing?)

3) Sweat loved guns and talked of shooting people (mainly police); however, as far as is known, Officer Tarsia was his only murder -- actually, he didn't manage to kill the officer, just severely injure him -- his buddy fired the kill shots. Other than that, he doesn't appear to have a history of violence. I don't think he would hurt ordinary citizens, unless he got into a desperate situation. I also don't think the plot to murder Lyle was his idea.

4) Sweat mainly just stole stuff -- all the time. Mostly guns and autos. He seemed obsessed with stealing stuff. I think it would be hard for him not to give into this obsession right now, if he's still alive. For some reason, I think he has died, maybe at Matt's hands or maybe from an injury or illness.

5) He had several girlfriends (fathered one child), and seemed to manipulate them to help him out of scrapes -- asking them to provide alibis. But it was one of those girlfriends that ratted him out -- similar to Matt.

6) He was a thinker and planner -- he loved to come up with elaborate plans for his thefts, and he would write them down in detail. He was likely the mastermind behind the escape, although Matt is also highly intelligent.

7) The article mentioned how he always had close-cropped hair, and this is also evident in all the photos I've seen of him -- going back a dozen years or more. If he were to grow it out longer, it would considerably change his appearance (although he does have quite the receding hairline now). It has occurred to me, that with his slight build, Sweat could disguise himself as a woman; however, he'd have to do something about the receding hairline (a scarf or something?) and of course the facial hair.
 
Yes, Fort Erie is in Canada -- it's just across the Niagara river from Buffalo, NY, the area where Matt spent most of his life (when he wasn't incarcerated).

Up until 9/11, it was pretty easy to cross back and forth across that border. Tourists coming to view the falls, would do that alot -- to see the falls from both sides. (The Canadian Horseshoe falls are much prettier than the American side, and it's cleaner and nicer over there). Now it's a pain in the butt to cross over and back. You have to have a passport or an enhanced drivers license. Last time I tried it, my family got sent to a holding room with a bunch of people that looked like biker gang members and middle-eastern terrorists (I guess they didn't like that we had Laos and China on our passports or something).
 
GGE said:
What would he want speed boxing gloves for, we all wondered? Well here's what he used similar gloves for in the past:

"The day before Rickerson was reported missing in December 1997, Schimpf, Matt, and the accomplice Bates downed vodka at Schimpf’s Buffalo apartment, according to Schimpf’s testimony.

Matt and Bates announced they were going to see a cousin’s boyfriend, who owed them money for vitamins from Rickerson’s food brokerage. Schimpf gave the pair batting gloves and packing tape, he testified. Matt said he planned to use the gloves to hit the boyfriend and force him to pay up.

Weeks later, Matt showed his brother a newspaper story on police finding Rickerson’s torso in the Niagara River."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-richard-matt-freaked-out-his-own-family.html
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Good article, giving insight into the mind of this killer:

1) Unlike Sweat, Matt has been violent most of his life. I remember reading another article about him being a bully as a kid. There was a violent raped linked to him, although he was never formally charged. He threatened to even kill his half-brother. He wouldn't hesitate to kill now, I don't think. He'd probably even kill Sweat, if they had a disagreement, or if he felt Sweat was slowing him down or whatever. "He would kill anyone who stood in his way." The article mentions a family member who's terrified of Matt.

2) Even though violent, he's charming and fun, especially with the ladies, and well-liked by other guys as well. That prisoner that just got out of Clinton mentioned he was well-liked and sociable.

3) How would Matt disguise himself? He probably wouldn't need to do much, because he has the sort of face that doesn't particularly stand out -- he looks like a lot of men. In fact, I was startled when I looked at the enhanced photo, showing him with a small growth of beard --- he looked very much like my former brother-in-law, which didn't occur to me with the clean-shaven photo. He would definitely wear a shirt that would cover the tattoos on his back and upper arms. Maybe just wear a baseball cap and sunglasses.

4) Where would Matt and/or Sweat flee to? They mentioned Vermont to Tillie, and a 7-hour drive over rough terrain. That could be a lot of places in the Adirondeck area, Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine, and Canada. Sweat lived most of his life (when not incarcerated) in Broome County, NY, and still has family there. He did get sent to live with an uncle in Florida as a youth, so he would be a little familiar with that area (not sure where in Florida). But, for the most part, he stayed right in the Broome County area -- just went off to the woods to hide. That would likely be his tendency now -- either head back to Broome, or somewhere nearby wilderness area. Matt's ties are mostly in the Buffalo, NY area, and just across the border in Ontario, Canada. But he did previously flee to Texas, and then the Mexico; indicating he might tend to go far away, and across a border (and he knows how). I don't think he would risk Mexican prison again though --so, if he crossed any borders, it would likely be into Canada (esp. since just a few miles away), or through Mexico and into Central America somewhere.
ETA: we also know that he's hitched a ride on freight trains before
 
GGE said:
Might there be trains that cross there? Freight of course. Nobody asks freight for a passport.
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There are train lines that cross over from Buffalo, NY area into Ontario, Canada. Passenger, and also freight, I believe. But you would have to show passport or enhanced driver's license, even on a freight train (unless, of course, they didn't know you were on the train).

However, it's quite a long way from the Clinton Correctional Facility to Buffalo. And that border has some pretty intense checks. If their objective was Canada, all they'd have to do was walk a few miles north, and just cross over in the wilderness area.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oed-Shawshank-escapee-end-prison-stripes.html

"EXCLUSIVE: How prison seamstress went from a loving BRIDE dressed in white to a heartless, sex-crazed cheater who let herself be wooed by Shawshank escapee and end up in prison stripes

- Jailed prison worker Joyce Mitchell, 51, has admitted having sex with Richard Matt in the prison
- 'She always had a healthy appetite for sex', ex-husband Tobey Premo reveals.
- 'When we first got together we were having sex two or three times a day. She always wanted it'
- Joyce cheated on Premo several times, finally with current husband Lyle Mitchell, who is now distancing himself from his wife
- When Premo found out about their affair, he beat up Lyle in a slipper factory bathroom
- Joyce left Premo and took everything, even unopened wedding gifts and his tools"

Gotta love the Daily Mail's bulleted summaries before the articles, LOL.

ETA: They call her the "Getaway Granny" :giggle:
 
GGE said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oed-Shawshank-escapee-end-prison-stripes.html

"EXCLUSIVE: How prison seamstress went from a loving BRIDE dressed in white to a heartless, sex-crazed cheater who let herself be wooed by Shawshank escapee and end up in prison stripes

- Jailed prison worker Joyce Mitchell, 51, has admitted having sex with Richard Matt in the prison
- 'She always had a healthy appetite for sex', ex-husband Tobey Premo reveals.
- 'When we first got together we were having sex two or three times a day. She always wanted it'
- Joyce cheated on Premo several times, finally with current husband Lyle Mitchell, who is now distancing himself from his wife
- When Premo found out about their affair, he beat up Lyle in a slipper factory bathroom
- Joyce left Premo and took everything, even unopened wedding gifts and his tools"

Gotta love the Daily Mail's bulleted summaries before the articles, LOL.

ETA: They call her the "Getaway Granny" :giggle:
Click to expand...

Wow after reading this my heart goes out to her ex-husband Tony. Even the last lines of the article paints him in an admirable light, IMO - "The person he says he feels most sorry for is the son he has hardly seen since he was in diapers. 'Of course I would like it if he would contact me,' he said. 'But that's up to him.

'I don't regret that I gave him up. I couldn't have looked after him at the time, and I have to say Lyle and Tillie did a real good job bringing him up.'"

A must-read article I'd say.
 
Interview with Dog the Bounty Hunter -

Q- "What is the buzz amongst the bounty hunter community? Are there hunters headed there to see if they can bring them back?

Everybody I know has called me up and said, “Dog, when we leaving?”

My friend just called me right now, Jeff Kirkpatrick, and said, “When you going?” I’m like, “Well, you know, Jeff, I don’t want to step on anybody’s toes. “Here comes Dog. He thinks he could do it.” And Jeff is like, “Brother, when are you going?” [emphasis theirs] I’m like, “Uh.” [Laughs] I said, “I’ll wait and see if they catch them, but …”

…it’s just itching at you, isn’t it?

Oh yeah! You want this so bad! This is hunting though. I’m from Colorado, so I once in the ’80s caught an escaped prisoner from Canon City, CO. — my mule, my Doberman and me. Hunting in the mountains and in that forest area is my forte. I’m half-breed Apache. That is the best area I’ve every hunted in is tracking a human like you would a fox. There’s different hunting. There’s the streets, there’s the bars, there’s the brothels, there’s the this, there’s that — but then there’s just the woods and the country and the elements. I would love this. Don’t make me cry!"

http://www.channelguidemagblog.com/...w-has-called-me-and-said-dog-when-we-leaving/


I say let him go for it.
 
From my link above -

"What they’re doing is traveling at night, I’m positive. They’re not traveling during the day because the cops are using heat-seeking equipment cameras to find them, so they have to be under something like metal where it doesn’t go through — a tractor or something like that. And they have to cover their whole body because they’re using millions of dollars of sophisticated stuff to catch these two guys — so they’ve got to travel at night. I think it’s 12 miles a day or something like that a human being can walk. They’re moving at night and not at all during the day, because they’ll find them. But like I say, who knows? They could be not even there — but that’s a lot of money they’re spending on this, isn’t it?"

He makes some good points.
 
GGE said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oed-Shawshank-escapee-end-prison-stripes.html

"EXCLUSIVE: How prison seamstress went from a loving BRIDE dressed in white to a heartless, sex-crazed cheater who let herself be wooed by Shawshank escapee and end up in prison stripes

- Jailed prison worker Joyce Mitchell, 51, has admitted having sex with Richard Matt in the prison
- 'She always had a healthy appetite for sex', ex-husband Tobey Premo reveals.
- 'When we first got together we were having sex two or three times a day. She always wanted it'
- Joyce cheated on Premo several times, finally with current husband Lyle Mitchell, who is now distancing himself from his wife
- When Premo found out about their affair, he beat up Lyle in a slipper factory bathroom
- Joyce left Premo and took everything, even unopened wedding gifts and his tools"

Gotta love the Daily Mail's bulleted summaries before the articles, LOL.

ETA: They call her the "Getaway Granny" :giggle:
Click to expand...

Why...Miss Tillie...M E O W!
 
GGE said:
From my link above -

"What they’re doing is traveling at night, I’m positive. They’re not traveling during the day because the cops are using heat-seeking equipment cameras to find them, so they have to be under something like metal where it doesn’t go through — a tractor or something like that. And they have to cover their whole body because they’re using millions of dollars of sophisticated stuff to catch these two guys — so they’ve got to travel at night. I think it’s 12 miles a day or something like that a human being can walk. They’re moving at night and not at all during the day, because they’ll find them. But like I say, who knows? They could be not even there — but that’s a lot of money they’re spending on this, isn’t it?"

He makes some good points.
Click to expand...

I don't understand. Why does night travel make it more difficult for the heat-seeking equipment to spot them? I'd think the contrast between body and ambient temp would be higher, thus easier to spot, at night. ?
 
Getting ready to leave for Boston. If I see the murderous duo, shall I honk and wave; capture them single-handedly; or pull over and seriously inquire why they haven't gone their separate ways? #tillie4ever
 
wfgodot said:
Getting ready to leave for Boston. If I see the murderous duo, shall I honk and wave; capture them single-handedly; or pull over and seriously inquire why they haven't gone their separate ways? #tillie4ever
Click to expand...

Maybe determine the indeterminate one's situation. Just pull over, ask for tool status, thank them, and leave.

#toolsB4rules
 
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