NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[rosemadderlake]

Here is the same Jane Doe on NamUs...

Additional dental info: 9 fillings, etc

https://identifyus.org/cases/2607

It says samples "Sent 11/22/11". That is a while ago...

It does look like too much dental work to be a match, though...

 

[Steely Dan]

It just occurred to me to look at the NY State Police list of missing people, and Sylvia is not on it-does anyone have any idea why that would be?

IIRC, she's listed as a runaway and her file says "Don't Investigate".

 

[nola]

bbm: --Wow, young boy digging in the back yard... just goes to show the randomness of everything. Thanks for the link which links up to the Doe Network and the sketch. I wonder what the rest of the dental charting shows?

Good eye-- yep, I agree, dentals are catastrophically different from Sylvia's. The NY State site didn't show dentals, but NamUs does. With dentals being so inconsistent, I'm surprised that LE have submitted DNA comparisons. There are only two rule outs for this JD: Denise Sheehy and Barbara Aleksivich. And no artist rendering on NamUs, sadly.

There was also the skull found in East Orange, NJ in 2001 of a 17-22 year old female. I'll look into this JD more... (dentals from NamUS show fillings, missing tooth). Do we have dentals for Sylvia? I know that I read that she had no cavities, no fillings or restorations. Is this documented?

 

[rosemadderlake]

IIRC, she's listed as a runaway and her file says "Don't Investigate".

The attached PR report says "Det. Lennon Advises Will Not Handle". On the radio show it was said will not investigate.

 

[Jmoose]

I remember early on looking at that Jane Doe, and thinking could be a possibility, but then I had stumbled upon this:

Unidentified White Female

Located on July 31, 1988 in Irondequoit, Monroe County, New York
Cause of death unknown, but manner of death was homicide.
The victim is believed to have been deceased between 10-30 years prior to discovery,
Complete Skeletal Remains

Estimated age: 15-20 years old (could be younger). Estimated year of birth is between 1938 and 1948.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'1-5'4"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Not available
Dentals: Available. Significant dental restorations using gold foil at 7, 8, 9,10. Clothing: No clothing was found in the grave. Single white button found near body.

Case History
The victim was located in a shallow grave behind 130 Bay Knoll Drive, in Irondequoit, New York on July 31, 1988. She was discovered by young boy who was digging at the rear of his property. Tis is an area adjacent to Irondequoit Bay. The yard backs up to a steep hill overlooking a valley.

http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t47112.htm

The Doe Network gives a different age range and estimated year of birth:

Estimated Age: 17-20 years old with an estimated birth year between 1952 and 1961.
Race: White
Gender: Female
Height: 5'1" to 5'4"

But dental restorations are indicated:

Dentals: Available. Significant dental restorations using gold foil at 7, 8, 9,10.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/122ufny.html

Any idea where gold foil is used to do tooth restorations?

 

[nola]

It says samples "Sent 11/22/11". That is a while ago...

It does look like too much dental work to be a match, though...

Not like on CSI, right?

I suppose the samples were sent to one of the 3 or 4 free (for LE) DNA labs in the US. The usual wait time is 2 years.

 

[Jmoose]

Any idea where gold foil is used to do tooth restorations?

Wait-Sylvia had no cavities! Nuts!

 

[rosemadderlake]

Any idea where gold foil is used to do tooth restorations?

Porcelain crowns are backed with gold for strength, a metal that is compatible with the body.

 

[Steely Dan]

Any idea where gold foil is used to do tooth restorations?

Wait-Sylvia had no cavities! Nuts!

Yeah, I was gonna bring that up. Her brother said she has no cavities.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Not like on CSI, right?

I suppose the samples were sent to one of the 3 or 4 free (for LE) DNA labs in the US. The usual wait time is 2 years.

Oh, that is a long time, isn't it....

 

[Jmoose]

IIRC, she's listed as a runaway and her file says "Don't Investigate".

I don't know that she is "officially" listed as a runaway-I think that was more of a supposition on the part of LE, which is why we think LE didn't investigate much at all-there may have been some other reason for backing off, though-you'll see that, Steely Dan, when you read some of the rest of the posts (not going into it here)

 

[Jmoose]

Is it possible that Sylvia might have had some porcelain crowns that her brother didn't know about? I couldn't say what the dental state of any of my siblings would be-maybe she had some gold backed porcelain crowns on molars back in Germany, before her brother was old enough to pay attention to such a thing?

 

[nola]

Hi Nola - Thank you for posting and finding the eerie comparison sketch to Sylvia. Where did it go? I saw the sketch in your post and now it is gone... (?)

I have to say it took me aback when I saw it. And made me so sad suddenly...

Also, your fresh eyes and impressions are very helpful. Speculation can get complicated in the swirling search for all things possible.

How long does a DNA comparison take? And I wonder who initiated it for testing, and when?

Your post reminds me of why I read WS late at night when I can't sleep and start searching through database after database to try to contribute to a solution. This group has made so many matches over the years, giving a family back their child -- and giving a person back their name. One day, the work you all have done here will lead to Sylvia's recovery. I just know it will.

I scrolled back up and I can still see the sketch comparison (although, I now think that the dentals will rule her out), I also, was caught by the similarities in the facial features. I hope that a simple refresh on your page will get the images back for you.

DNA takes about 2 years -- because there are only 3 or 4 US labs that will fit LE comparisons into their queue without charging for the tests. Who initiated the comparison?...my guess is a WS member.

 

[nola]

Porcelain crowns are backed with gold for strength, a metal that is compatible with the body.

What I gather from the NamUs dental chart is that this JD had gold backing with extensive restorations on her front 5 teeth (7, 8, 9, 10, 11)-- possibly veneers and crowns on her molars - common for a person who ginds their teeth. This would be pretty expensive and time consuming for the patient.

Sylvia's NamUs shows that dentals are available -- will be entered later, uggh!

 

[rosemadderlake]

Is it possible that Sylvia might have had some porcelain crowns that her brother didn't know about? I couldn't say what the dental state of any of my siblings would be-maybe she had some gold backed porcelain crowns on molars back in Germany, before her brother was old enough to pay attention to such a thing?

Sylvia's teeth look perfect - If there is restoration work on her that's some fabulous dental work. I think Sylvia was too young (under 9 years) for this kind of restoration work in Germany. Maybe if she got her front teeth knocked out and replaced with crowns at that age? Certainly not due to decay or misaligned teeth with that smile.

ASWDH - Did Sylvia ever have braces to straighten her teeth?

 

[epiphany]

What I gather from the NamUs dental chart is that this JD had gold backing with extensive restorations on her front 5 teeth (7, 8, 9, 10, 11)-- possibly veneers and crowns on her molars - common for a person who ginds their teeth. This would be pretty expensive and time consuming for the patient.

Sylvia's NamUs shows that dentals are available -- will be entered later, uggh!

The sketch of the Irondequoit Jane Doe appears to illustrate that the dental work on/near JD's front teeth was visible (near her right front tooth).

Not so on photos of Sylvia.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Skeet-I wonder if she would have been fingerprinted when she came here to live from Germany? I am not familiar with the protocol-maybe they did that at that time?

Another possibility: Did she by any chance minor in education? Teachers are fingerprinted before teaching ... maybe she student taught? Even subs are fingerprinted.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes that is a good possibility, a passport would have a fingerprint right? Not sure since I don't own one.

I just renewed my pp. No fingerprints.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I just submitted this possible match to the NY State Police, and got a reply back stating that this match has already been submitted, and is awaiting DNA comparison-if it comes back as a match, that should take Andre Rand out of the mix because I don't believe he had a vehicle, and didn't appear to transport his victims too far away from where he was.

Andre Rand did have a vehicle. A VW. I am not sure whether and how far he traveled, but I think I recall an incident in the Newark area and I believe he comes from upstate New York. IIRC, his mother was hospitalized in a psychiatric facility up there when he was an adolescent.

ETA: I looked up the facts after posting this. He was raised in Ithaca, NY. But the mother was in Pilgrim Psychiatric Center, which is/was on LI (Brentwood).

 

[Jmoose]

Andre Rand did have a vehicle. A VW. I am not sure whether and how far he traveled, but I think I recall an incident in the Newark area and I believe he comes from upstate New York. IIRC, his mother was hospitalized in a psychiatric facility up there when he was an adolescent.

ETA: I looked up the facts after posting this. He was raised in Ithaca, NY. But the mother was in Pilgrim Psychiatric Center, which is/was on LI (Brentwood).

You are correct (once again!)-In any event, because of the teeth, it looks like this UID will prove not to be Sylvia, although I guess the DNA will tell for sure.