OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #2

[jenlag]

Question,

What makes Brian a "Violent Criminal" according to the classification list category above? This makes no sense.

Satch

i can only assume is that VICAP is simply considered an elite department?? That is only an assumption and nothing more. If there is more to it, I would love to know as well!!

The Violent Criminal Apprehension Program (ViCAP) maintains the largest investigative repository of major violent crime cases in the U.S. It is designed to collect and analyze information about homicides, sexual assaults, missing persons, and other violent crimes involving unidentified human remains.

 

[dotr]

Not that there is a connection, but in looking for any other unusual disappearances in Ohio in 2006, found this guy who, like Brian, had lots going for him, could not find a thread so started one.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?339205-Andrew-(Andy)-Grey-Chapman-32-Franklin-County-Ohio-Dec-2006&p=13404531#post13404531
[h=2]Andrew (Andy) Grey Chapman, 32, Franklin County, Ohio,Dec. 2006[/h]

 

[neesaki]

Question,

What makes Brian a "Violent Criminal" according to the classification list category above? This makes no sense.

Satch

Hi Satch. :wave: It wouldn't make Brian a Violent Criminal at all. But rather he is possibly the victim of a criminal act. Thus his listing under "Missing Persons" under VICAP. Apologies for the confusion. I do wish we had more information to go on, believe me. :sigh:

 

[ekardh]

Not that there is a connection, but in looking for any other unusual disappearances in Ohio in 2006, found this guy who, like Brian, had lots going for him, could not find a thread so started one.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?339205-Andrew-(Andy)-Grey-Chapman-32-Franklin-County-Ohio-Dec-2006&p=13404531#post13404531
[h=2]Andrew (Andy) Grey Chapman, 32, Franklin County, Ohio,Dec. 2006[/h]

Thanks, dotr.

On closer inspection, he reputedly had a lot of personal problems and was facing court proceedings. This sounds more like a planned disappearance, possibly a suicide.

 

[bighairdontcare]

I find it very hard to believe " he disappeared IN the bar." He had to have left the bar- had to. I used to work at the Ugly Tuna for a short period of time when I was in college. The bathrooms are close to the entrance- no means of an exit via bathroom. There's a large patio- but this is a second story bar- I suppose he could have jumped off the balcony , but there is no way that no one would have seen that . There is only one entrance/exit- he had to have somehow managed to leave without being caught on camera.
I'm not sure if I believe the construction theory either. I think he met his demise outside that bar - but close- maybe around the corner. Much can go unnoticed , especially at that time of night. I'm thinking he was approached , there was a struggle and he was dumped


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[MatthewTyler]

I find it very hard to believe " he disappeared IN the bar." He had to have left the bar- had to. I used to work at the Ugly Tuna for a short period of time when I was in college. The bathrooms are close to the entrance- no means of an exit via bathroom. There's a large patio- but this is a second story bar- I suppose he could have jumped off the balcony , but there is no way that no one would have seen that . There is only one entrance/exit- he had to have somehow managed to leave without being caught on camera.
I'm not sure if I believe the construction theory either. I think he met his demise outside that bar - but close- maybe around the corner. Much can go unnoticed , especially at that time of night. I'm thinking he was approached , there was a struggle and he was dumped


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The only problem I have with the idea of him meeting a struggle nearby and getting dumped after is that (assuming you mean a random robbery) what benefit would it have to take the time to hide his body so well? A mugger on the street would probably attack, steal and get away as quickly as possible. Not to mention that neither his card or phone were used since, implying those items might still be with him. I know you say that things tend to go unnoticed, but I don't know if a murder would be one of those things, especially on a busy Friday night/Saturday morning. And it also still wouldn't explain why he went out the service exit. Of course I realize he MAY not have, but for the sake of the argument I'm going to assume that the cops are correct and that they are 100% sure Brian did not leave through the main exit. I still think the only one who may know why Brian didn't take the main way or where he may have been planning to go next is Clint.

 

[neesaki]

I keep going back to the surveillance showing two men following someone out that apparently to some degree resembled Brian. I know it's been reported the family couldn't identify him, but still... Could this have been an element in the FBI classifying him under VICAP? What if it was him? It's really hard to see details in those surveillance videos. They aren't clear at all. Jmo

 

[MatthewTyler]

I keep going back to the surveillance showing two men following someone out that apparently to some degree resembled Brian. I know it's been reported the family couldn't identify him, but still... Could this have been an element in the FBI classifying him under VICAP? What if it was him? It's really hard to see details in those surveillance videos. They aren't clear at all. Jmo

I'd like to assume that his close friends and family would know if it were him or not, but you never know. Assuming that the cops did in fact account for every other person in the bar besides Brian, shouldn't they have already known who that guy was? Or at least saw him coming earlier in the evening? If that's not Brian then the guy surely didn't change clothing throughout the night, so it would have been pretty easy to rule him out as not being Brian if they saw him on earlier footage

 

[bighairdontcare]

The only problem I have with the idea of him meeting a struggle nearby and getting dumped after is that (assuming you mean a random robbery) what benefit would it have to take the time to hide his body so well? A mugger on the street would probably attack, steal and get away as quickly as possible. Not to mention that neither his card or phone were used since, implying those items might still be with him. I know you say that things tend to go unnoticed, but I don't know if a murder would be one of those things, especially on a busy Friday night/Saturday morning. And it also still wouldn't explain why he went out the service exit. Of course I realize he MAY not have, but for the sake of the argument I'm going to assume that the cops are correct and that they are 100% sure Brian did not leave through the main exit. I still think the only one who may know why Brian didn't take the main way or where he may have been planning to go next is Clint.

I guess what I mean by that is that he was quickly thrown in a dumpster. Every alley in that neighborhood is lined with dumpsters- I guess it would have been a crime of opportunity. Who knows if all nearby were searched following his disappearance ? Also, who knows when the garbage was collected ?


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[John.121]

I find it very hard to believe " he disappeared IN the bar." He had to have left the bar- had to. I used to work at the Ugly Tuna for a short period of time when I was in college. The bathrooms are close to the entrance- no means of an exit via bathroom. There's a large patio- but this is a second story bar- I suppose he could have jumped off the balcony , but there is no way that no one would have seen that . There is only one entrance/exit- he had to have somehow managed to leave without being caught on camera.
I'm not sure if I believe the construction theory either. I think he met his demise outside that bar - but close- maybe around the corner. Much can go unnoticed , especially at that time of night. I'm thinking he was approached , there was a struggle and he was dumped


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I notice you say there is only one exit. Are you including the service exit in that? or was there not even a service exit in there at the time you worked there? It's interesting that we hear so much about the amount of different exits within the bar not even including the construction exit that was there as an additional one.

Some people who worked there say there was a staff exit obscured behind the bar that only the staff had access to as well as the main exit AND a service exit, while others who also worked in the bar say there was absolutely only one way out of there he could have taken which the one that was studied on camera by the investigators.

I think establishing how exactly how many ways in and out there were at the time he disappeared is important because it becomes easier to say whether in fact they could just have missed him when checking the cameras. If there was like 3 other ways out of there and the detectives are a thousand percent certain he wasn't accounted for on the main one then it's obvious he went out one of the other ways, or of course had an accident inside and is buried under the construction or whatever.

 

[ekardh]

Did Brian ever leave the building? I see no evidence that he did.

 

[MatthewTyler]

Did Brian ever leave the building? I see no evidence that he did.

so do you hold on to the theory that he died in the construction site and was buried over, or do you mean that you think he didn't leave the bar alive and was dumped elsewhere at a later time? Not arguing with you either way, just legitimately curious.

 

[Satch]

More Questions,

Do we know for sure how many cameras there were and were they were located? In each instance, was it ever determined how the pausing or freeze time frame could hold? In other words, given the number of cameras at the Ugly Tuna and the technology involved for them to "scan the pad," was it determined how much time each camera could focus on a scanned section of the bar? Is there a range of how many seconds could have elapsed where Brian or anybody else could leave the bar and not be noticed by the cameras?

Thank you for your post Bighairdontcare in regards to sharing that you used to work at the Ugly Tuna. Forgive me if this has already been answered, but was this before, or after Brian's disappearance? If it was after was there a general consensus among employees as to what happened to Brian? Or was this case not really talked about that much among co-workers?

If Brian was killed, I wonder if this was a random killing or mugging, robbery type of situation, or was this something planned? I think this was a random incident, and Brian tragically happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Satch

 

[DD Byrd]

Was there a garbage chute to a dumpster on street level? Or roof access to a fire escape? I'd think if there was a possibility of him being buried in the construction debris LE would have brought in cadaver dogs and found him long ago. But if he was put into a dumpster the body would be gone before he was even being looked for at that location. The main lasting question for me is, why would someone with no information or fear of implication refuse a polygraph?

 

[neesaki]

Was there a garbage chute to a dumpster on street level? Or roof access to a fire escape? I'd think if there was a possibility of him being buried in the construction debris LE would have brought in cadaver dogs and found him long ago. But if he was put into a dumpster the body would be gone before he was even being looked for at that location. The main lasting question for me is, why would someone with no information or fear of implication refuse a polygraph?

I more or less agree with this in bold, where did I read that Clint wouldn't talk unless he was granted immunity. Immunity from what, whatever it is, it doesn't sound like something an innocent person would do.

Please tell me I didn't imagine this. :thinking:

 

[MatthewTyler]

I more or less agree with this in bold, where did I read that Clint wouldn't talk unless he was granted immunity. Immunity from what, whatever it is, it doesn't sound like something an innocent person would do.

Please tell me I didn't imagine this. :thinking:

Honestly, I don't bastardize Clint for refusing a polygraph test. Those things are not too reliable and God forbid he WAS telling the truth and it showed up as a lie for whatever reason, his life would basically be ruined. He wouldn't be able to defend himself against it. Maybe legally, but the stigma would tarnish his name. From what I remember, it was his lawyer's suggestion to not take one I think? Now what I DO bastardize Clint for is the fact that he was pretty quick to blame Brian for that night. "He gets mouthy when drunk, he wanders a lot" blah blah. It's almost like he wants to make damn sure everyone knows that whatever could have happened that night was likely Brian's own fault and not his. He was also pretty quick to move on, as his lawyer said he considers the case to be closed. That's a pretty strange thing to say. If my good friend went missing I wouldn't consider it 'closed' until they were recovered, whether alive or dead. Unless of course Clint KNOWS for sure that Brian is one of those two statuses. As for wanting immunity, this is why I feel that Clint might know something about some kind of recreational activity that may have led to this disappearance. Drugs most likely. Maybe he was a user himself and wanted to make sure he couldn't be penalized for that. I hope he does talk one day, but I doubt it since he has seemed to move on and successfully got away from Columbus and away from the media circus.

I kinda do wish someone would force some pressure on him. I wonder if his wife ever brings it up or suspects he might have had something to do with it

 

[reintarnation]

I more or less agree with this in bold, where did I read that Clint wouldn't talk unless he was granted immunity. Immunity from what, whatever it is, it doesn't sound like something an innocent person would do.

Please tell me I didn't imagine this. :thinking:

Neesaki!!!! Love it when I find you in a new thread. 👋❤️

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[reintarnation]

The only problem I have with the idea of him meeting a struggle nearby and getting dumped after is that (assuming you mean a random robbery) what benefit would it have to take the time to hide his body so well? A mugger on the street would probably attack, steal and get away as quickly as possible. Not to mention that neither his card or phone were used since, implying those items might still be with him. I know you say that things tend to go unnoticed, but I don't know if a murder would be one of those things, especially on a busy Friday night/Saturday morning. And it also still wouldn't explain why he went out the service exit. Of course I realize he MAY not have, but for the sake of the argument I'm going to assume that the cops are correct and that they are 100% sure Brian did not leave through the main exit. I still think the only one who may know why Brian didn't take the main way or where he may have been planning to go next is Clint.

This. Exactly.

The random mugger or drug deal gone bad theories seem so very, very plausible. Any theory where he randomly encounters someone nefarious makes perfect sense...EXCEPT anyone who killed him for that reason would 100% without a doubt steal his bank card, credit card, etc. People like that are hustlers. They aren't going to go to that trouble without taking something from it.

Unless he maybe stumbled on something he wasn't meant to witness and was killed for that reason. Then the motive is silencing the witness, and they have reason to cover it up and no reason to rob him and no reason to come forward with information. Murder in progress? Some other crime in progress?

I can buy that he managed to leave the bar without detection in some form or another.

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[neesaki]

Neesaki!!!! Love it when I find you in a new thread. ❤️

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Well thank you, love it when I find you in a thread too, reintarnation! Where ya been, anyway? I also believe you have introduced some very plausible theories. I would give about anything to have just a little more information to go on, we have virtually nothing. I have to wonder what LE has, surely they have more than we do, at least I hope so. :seeya:

 

[ekardh]

so do you hold on to the theory that he died in the construction site and was buried over, or do you mean that you think he didn't leave the bar alive and was dumped elsewhere at a later time? Not arguing with you either way, just legitimately curious.

That is the most parsimonious explanation, in my opinion.

Brian said that he was going back to talk to the band. The band have no recollection of speaking to Brian that night. Were they mistaken or were they lying? Perhaps this was just an excuse to go back into the bar. If Brian had an ulterior motive for going back, what was it? Was he trying to hook up with someone behind his gf's back, or was he planning to disappear out of the side-exit? According to the police, everyone who left the bar was accounted for, except for Brian of course. This rules out the more imaginative theories, like Brian was wearing a disguise.

I think Clint is a red herring. Lawyering up in a missing persons investigation is not in and of itself suspicious. Polygraphs are pseudoscience and Clint may have had other reasons for refusing to take one. For example, if it came out he had taken drugs that night it might be damaging to his career. There was only the potential for the polygraph to incriminate him. What are people supposing, anyway? That Clint murdered his buddy in the bar in cold blood, disposed of the body somewhere no one could find it, and then left like nothing ever happened? What basis is there for suspecting Clint other than the refused polygraph?

My problem with the planned disappearance is that it's too perfect. Brian disappears out of the building, he leaves no trace of his movements whatsoever and vanishes into thin air. If Brian was really planning to runaway, you'd think he would've taken care of loose ends, waited until the morning and then driven off into the sunset. The fact he didn't return for his car or touch any of his money leads me to discredit this theory. He just upped and vanished while on a night out? Not likely. When young men (and women) disappear under these circumstances it's usually because of alcohol or drugs involved. Some theorize that Brian accidentally drowned in a nearby river. From Google Maps, the nearest river is approximately a 20 minute walk away, perhaps a little longer for someone under the influence. For me, the lack of credible sightings and security footage supports the theory that Brian never actually left the building.