OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[Jim1981_GR]

I have another idea about what may have happened that night. Let's assume that the police officers were indeed supervising the area at 02:00 and some minutes later without missing anything or noticing unusual movements towards the chain locked staff exit. Could it be possible that Brian remained unconscious the whole night inside the bar accidentally even after closing time? After all we have heard cases were people were accidentally locked in buildings even if they had security staff.

Ok we all know that employees check the staff areas before leaving. But it is always possible to forget to check every area, or simply bored to thoroughly check, assuming that every customer has left. Scrappy checks are always possible especially if you are tired from work. Brian could have passed out in the restrooms or another area of the bar that was not well checked. He may died from asphyxiation after aspirating his own vomit. Next day one or more responsible persons from the bar come early for preparations and noticed the dead man. They realize they are responsible for what happened and might face criminal charges due to negligence. So they decide to move secretly the body in a bag from the staff exit, then into a vehicle and bury it far from the area.

Another scenario. Brian is left unconscious in the bar after closing time. A cleaner is coming sometime until the morning hours and finds him unconscious or almost unconscious. He is a poor and freaky cleaner prone to criminal actions if opportunity arises. He tries to rob him taking advantage of Brian's inability to respond effectively due to his intoxication. During the fight he kills Brian suffocating him, thus leaving no blood stains which could be found by police experts. Then he puts the body into a trash bag and with the help of his working trolley he loads it in his vehicle. He left through the notorious staff exit where no cameras were monitoring. Finally he buries the body far away in the woods.

I've read articles about police investigators checking the cameras and see every person leaving at closing time except Brian. But what about the hours after the closing? What about the next day? Are there any people working at the same building even after the closing of Ugly Tuna? And what were their movements that night? Don't forget that Brian's disappearance was reported on Monday, so there was plenty of time for these scenarios to unfold.

I also find plausible the scenario of Brian leaving after closing time with an employee through staff exit and after that sth bad happened to him. But somehow we must assume that Brian soon entered this person's vehicle because we need to explain also the fact that Brian was not seen in other cameras out of Ugly Tuna.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I have another idea about what may have happened that night. Let's assume that the police officers were indeed supervising the area at 02:00 and some minutes later without missing anything or noticing unusual movements towards the chain locked staff exit. Could it be possible that Brian remained unconscious the whole night inside the bar accidentally even after closing time? After all we have heard cases were people were accidentally locked in buildings even if they had security staff.

Ok we all know that employees check the staff areas before leaving. But it is always possible to forget to check every area, or simply bored to thoroughly check, assuming that every customer has left. Scrappy checks are always possible especially if you are tired from work. Brian could have passed out in the restrooms or another area of the bar that was not well checked. He may died from asphyxiation after aspirating his own vomit. Next day one or more responsible persons from the bar come early for preparations and noticed the dead man. They realize they are responsible for what happened and might face criminal charges due to negligence. So they decide to move secretly the body in a bag from the staff exit, then into a vehicle and bury it far from the area.

Another scenario. Brian is left unconscious in the bar after closing time. A cleaner is coming sometime until the morning hours and finds him unconscious or almost unconscious. He is a poor and freaky cleaner prone to criminal actions if opportunity arises. He tries to rob him taking advantage of Brian's inability to respond effectively due to his intoxication. During the fight he kills Brian suffocating him, thus leaving no blood stains which could be found by police experts. Then he puts the body into a trash bag and with the help of his working trolley he loads it in his vehicle. He left through the notorious staff exit where no cameras were monitoring. Finally he buries the body far away in the woods.

I've read articles about police investigators checking the cameras and see every person leaving at closing time except Brian. But what about the hours after the closing? What about the next day? Are there any people working at the same building even after the closing of Ugly Tuna? And what were their movements that night? Don't forget that Brian's disappearance was reported on Monday, so there was plenty of time for these scenarios to unfold.

I also find plausible the scenario of Brian leaving after closing time with an employee through staff exit and after that sth bad happened to him. But somehow we must assume that Brian soon entered this person's vehicle because we need to explain also the fact that Brian was not seen in other cameras out of Ugly Tuna.

I do think it’s possible Brian came to his death inside the bar and someone hid his death and removed the body.

Or that he left somehow with staff or band etc and met his end and his the body.

The police did watch video of the next day as well though. Those links are shared earlier in the thread. They thought a white man leaving with two black men could have possibly been Brian—which raised the hopes of family momentarily. But friends and family all agreed the person could not be Brian.

 

[neesaki]

They do look similar. I appreciate the photos. I have read soooo many articles about this case over the years and don’t recall ever hearing that security was staffed by police. If it was mentioned, I must have forgotten it. Or it wasn’t mentioned.

So let’s reflect on this together. If the security staff were indeed police, does that change anything about how we perceive the case unfolding?

To me it could change the fact that anything happened in the bar. Or , if it happened in the bar, it had to have happened after the police officers left. So, what does that leave us with?

For me, I have no doubt that this was Columbus PD in uniform. Due to the high level of crime in the area and the drunken students, clientele at the bars, etc., if local LE didn't have someone there they would be considered to be remiss and not doing their duty for their city. So yes, it was them. Which IMO raises the possibility of something happening to Brian in the bar to a lower level. Of course I could be wrong, I often am. :sheesh:

 

[PaulR]

The police did watch video of the next day as well though. Those links are shared earlier in the thread. They thought a white man leaving with two black men could have possibly been Brian—which raised the hopes of family momentarily. But friends and family all agreed the person could not be Brian.

Could they be wrong?

 

[Jim1981_GR]

I could say "yes". They could be wrong but with lot of hesitation. I mean...in the realm of possibilities even his closest people could fail to recognize him through this mediocre, blurry camera views. And I believe that the more they zoomed the photo of this white man, the more blurry/grainy it would become (at least this is my experience from CCTV systems). I would also like to know if they showed the picture to each friend and family member separately or in groups because sometimes a person's first impression can affect other's views especially if the first person is someone who inspires respect. We've heard about cases where witnesses or victims of crimes do not recognize the perpetrator or make false identifications.

Another important question about this white man is "did they see him enter that morning or the previous night"?. Because if they didn't then he could be Brian who had stayed there from the previous night and during this morning exit he had somehow changed minor aspects of his appearance (different clothes, his hairstyle would be a bit different after sleeping in the bar etc.) but to the extent he could not be easily recognizable even to his closest people.

 

[neesaki]

Could they be wrong?

My thoughts on this is that there’s a possibility it could be one of two things. It was Brian and they didn’t think it was him but it was.

Or, it was Brian and they didn’t want the public to know it was him, I suppose there could be more than one reason for this. Then again, LE seems so positive it wasn’t him. But member the person who claimed to know what happened to Brian and that a black man was involved? Coincidental? Or more than coincidence? Could they have been gang members ?

IDk, but I’ve always questioned it. This coming from an eternal skeptic.

 

[PaulR]

My more serious concern is, if this was Brian but everyone said "no, I don't think it's him", the police may not have followed up on that lead. I think they asked friends/family to review that relatively soon after he vanished, right? How cold would that lead be now?

 

[MatthewTyler]

Let's assume that the police officers were indeed supervising the area at 02:00 and some minutes later without missing anything or noticing unusual movements towards the chain locked staff exit.

. This is what gets me with the construction exit bit. There's mixed thoughts about whether or not the door was chain-locked. I'm guessing it must have been, seeing as it is a HUGE liability and risk to have something like that open in a place where masses of people will be drinking. So if it was in fact locked, how could the cops have not noticed Brian messing around with it or squeezing through the door? That must draw some attention

 

[MatthewTyler]

Ok we all know that employees check the staff areas before leaving. But it is always possible to forget to check every area, or simply bored to thoroughly check, assuming that every customer has left. Scrappy checks are always possible especially if you are tired from work. Brian could have passed out in the restrooms or another area of the bar that was not well checked. He may died from asphyxiation after aspirating his own vomit. Next day one or more responsible persons from the bar come early for preparations and noticed the dead man. They realize they are responsible for what happened and might face criminal charges due to negligence. So they decide to move secretly the body in a bag from the staff exit, then into a vehicle and bury it far from the area.

That could be likely, but if that is what happened then it would probably only have been one or two people tops (might need 2 just to lug his body). Maybe a manager/higher up and a trusted employee. As I said a couple of posts back, any more people than that and rumors would start to circulate.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

My thoughts on this is that there’s a possibility it could be one of two things. It was Brian and they didn’t think it was him but it was.

Or, it was Brian and they didn’t want the public to know it was him, I suppose there could be more than one reason for this. Then again, LE seems so positive it wasn’t him. But member the person who claimed to know what happened to Brian and that a black man was involved? Coincidental? Or more than coincidence? Could they have been gang members ?

IDk, but I’ve always questioned it. This coming from an eternal skeptic.

I've had these exact thoughts.

Of course there's always a possibility the film was so grainy or Brian's appearance was so changed that multiple loved ones missed that it was him. But I don't see that as likely. If my brother had disappeared, even if it were just two days in, I would be so concerned that I would not be willing to rule out any person who even remotely resembled him. To me, it seems like they had to have been sure.

OR, far less likely, like you said...his loved ones thought it could be him, but covered up the possibility. Help me explore reasons they would do this? They could have thought it would negatively impact his reputation (or standings with the medical program) to be seen leaving with these 2 men after pulling an all-nighter in a bar. So they protected him out of a belief he was going to likely turn up soon? Perhaps they suspected or were even told the men had criminal ties and they feared the backlash of implicating them? Perhaps they knew Brian had purposefully fled due to some danger or health issue and conspired to keep his secret? (But if that was the case, they wasted a lot of time frequently leading searches and raising awareness about his disappearance in the press. So...nah.)

I still think the most likely scenario is he came to harm inside the bar or after leaving it due to substance use and/or bad company. And someone disposed of the body.

And in terms of how might it change things if the security guards were police officers...

If they were police officers, that opens up the remote possibility of an initial police-led cover-up too. This is never my first inclination as I have mad respect for the heroes in blue. I know there are a few bad eggs in every career field, but I've been hesitant to even whisper that. After all, by all accounts the detectives who investigated this went above and beyond in their devotion to the case. But if police were involved in covering it up, well...they could have theoretically skewed the investigation making it nearly impossible for future officers to determine what happened.

There are a million little "what ifs" we can play out. What if the vicious rumor posted to the comments of Brian's page about black men harming Brian was true? Or even...what if a loved one--not Clint, but someone who would surprise us--targeted Brian for some reason? I saw a person ponder what if Brian's dad wasn't really killed by a tree branch in a storm, but the accident was staged.

I can't rule anything out, but without credible reason to chase one of these far fetched rabbit trails, I keep returning to Occam's Razor. He died by accident or foul play because of substance use and/or bad company and his body has yet to be discovered.

As always, I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[mcbrainder]

There's a couple things that really eat at me here. He's talking to the girls on camera nearly up until closing time. By this point, last call has probably been called and within moments, everyone will have to leave the bar. This includes his friends, who would be looking to get him so they could leave. Did his friends stick around and look for him for a good amount of time? What time does the camera show they leave? Would they leave without him without first sticking around to find him, hang out near the bathroom to see if he's in there, etc? We're talking about minutes between the time Brian goes back to the bar (or so it seems) and when they close. Whatever causes him to disappear happens near the end while there's still plenty of people filing out. My thought is for him to have gone back to the bar would have been impossible. Did he leave an unsettled tab or was he paying cash all night? Would three people go to a bar together and two leave without at least knowing where the third is and not just assuming? If I'm one of the friends, I'm sticking around, at least outside the bar, calling and waiting for at least 20 minutes, but that's just me.

I have a feeling he walked in on something he wasn't supposed to see, like a drug deal going down. Maybe in the bathroom, maybe he steps outside in the construction area because he has to pee and there's a line at the restroom. If there's no witnesses in the bar that remember seeing him at closing time, when everyone's moving toward the spot he would have been entering, then it seems to me he never went back in.

 

[mcbrainder]

When you think about it, if the area was known to be high in crime, a dark construction area that's seemingly isolated from people would be an ideal place for drug dealers.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

There's a couple things that really eat at me here. He's talking to the girls on camera nearly up until closing time. By this point, last call has probably been called and within moments, everyone will have to leave the bar. This includes his friends, who would be looking to get him so they could leave. Did his friends stick around and look for him for a good amount of time? What time does the camera show they leave? Would they leave without him without first sticking around to find him, hang out near the bathroom to see if he's in there, etc? We're talking about minutes between the time Brian goes back to the bar (or so it seems) and when they close. Whatever causes him to disappear happens near the end while there's still plenty of people filing out. My thought is for him to have gone back to the bar would have been impossible. Did he leave an unsettled tab or was he paying cash all night? Would three people go to a bar together and two leave without at least knowing where the third is and not just assuming? If I'm one of the friends, I'm sticking around, at least outside the bar, calling and waiting for at least 20 minutes, but that's just me.

I have a feeling he walked in on something he wasn't supposed to see, like a drug deal going down. Maybe in the bathroom, maybe he steps outside in the construction area because he has to pee and there's a line at the restroom. If there's no witnesses in the bar that remember seeing him at closing time, when everyone's moving toward the spot he would have been entering, then it seems to me he never went back in.

I see where you're going. Sometimes, the enforcement of "closing time" depends on the bar staff though. Did they literally kick everyone out that very minute? Or did they tell them you have a half hour left to drink while we clean and close up? Or did they sometimes let a few regulars hang around and chat after hours? I've seen all these things in restaurants I've worked in.

But either way, that doesn't explain why Clint and Meredith missed him. I agree the time was short (5 minutes?) between Brian's last appearance on camera and his friends' alleged departure. But...in theory, it would take a grown man only a few seconds to take a back hallway, duck into a closet or storage room, or get through a staff exit (if not seen, and it was unlocked and un-camera'd...which is not what I believe).

Then we go back to their story. They say they called Brian right then...and the phone record did check out. So...that makes me think they really were looking for him regardless of what happens next. Otherwise, we have to believe a male and female friend worked together on a calculated plan to harm and dispose of Brian...but somehow carried it out within just a few minutes and then also had the presence of mind to make fake calls to his phone to time everything perfectly.

So what are the alternatives? I don't see Brian's history as suggesting this, but the only other possibility I can think of is maybe Brian's friends knew he was pursuing something less than reputable. Drugs. Sex (while in a relationship with someone else). Maybe they didn't know how long that would take or maybe Brian frequently walked off in these scenarios. And so they did try to check in, but just figured he'd moved on with someone else.

Another possibility: maybe Brian's friends got into an argument with Brian. Maybe Brian got mad and purposefully ditched them through some back exit. Maybe Clint went to his house (which he says he did hours later) and they got in a confrontation and Brian was harmed.

One more variation: maybe Brian was hanging around with some female staff person or drug dealer when the friends left and they knew it. Or maybe they got into an argument with him and, knowing he was still sitting at the bar, decided to leave him. There's always a chance they claimed they didn't see him because they didn't want anyone to place any blame on them for whatever they think happened next.

Anyone have thoughts on any of these rabbit trails?

Without Clint's honest testimony, without any helpful camera footage, and without Brian himself...I just circle back to the same conclusion. There's a hundred possibilities. But most of them are less likely than the idea he had an accident or came into harm and his body hasn't been discovered.

 

[John.121]

Is it common in America for street level drug dealers or gang members to just kill a guy for witnessing a drug deal? I am in the UK and I know several drug dealers and people who have been to prison for drugs too and not once have I ever heard of someone being shot or disposed of for simply waking past or seeing a drug transaction in a street or passage way. Even now I can walk 2 streets away and there will be people selling drugs from car windows and shop doorways and plenty of people walk by and know what's going on. Some of the old people in the area and the shop owners report it and the dealers know who reported them and never once has anyone been killed. There are already too many risks involved with the lifestyle to go around shooting random civilians for being in the vicinity of a drug deal.

I have seen the theory that the person was killed after being in a bad neighborhood and witnessing a drug deal put forward for so many missing person cases in America. Just wondering how common it actually is over there for that to happen.

 

[PaulR]

It is unlikely, but the problem is so is Brian vanishing. So now we have to consider the much less likely alternatives, which is why I wondered if all his friends and family misidentified someone. That would also explain a lot - the police wouldn't be tracking that person down at the time, after all everyone who knew him said it's not him, and by now it's 11 years later and there's not going to be much to trace. Except that too seems incredibly unlikely.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Is it common in America for street level drug dealers or gang members to just kill a guy for witnessing a drug deal? I am in the UK and I know several drug dealers and people who have been to prison for drugs too and not once have I ever heard of someone being shot or disposed of for simply waking past or seeing a drug transaction in a street or passage way. Even now I can walk 2 streets away and there will be people selling drugs from car windows and shop doorways and plenty of people walk by and know what's going on. Some of the old people in the area and the shop owners report it and the dealers know who reported them and never once has anyone been killed. There are already too many risks involved with the lifestyle to go around shooting random civilians for being in the vicinity of a drug deal.

I have seen the theory that the person was killed after being in a bad neighborhood and witnessing a drug deal put forward for so many missing person cases in America. Just wondering how common it actually is over there for that to happen.

I don’t think it’s common to be harmed for witnessing a drug deal. But if you confronted or picked a fight with one, your odds go down.

 

[614Buckeye]

Alright folks, I had a chance to pop into The Ugly Tuna on Saturday night and thought I'd take a few pictures for you all.

This is the position the police are standing in in the surveillance footage. As you can see, escalator and stairs on the right, bar entrance straight ahead, and what would have been the construction door immediately off to the left. The area the police and bar bouncers would have been looking at is maybe 15x15 feet or so. Not a huge area for someone to get lost in. Notice that this picture has private security as well (home Ohio State game leading more people to go out to campus bars).

This is one of the exits in the bar. This leads to the main entrance room where the escalators are. There is a short walk around the stairs/escalator, and you will essentially be back at the position where I took the first picture at. I don't think there are other ways to go from that door, however with the sign on it saying "opening door will sound alarm" or something to that extent, I didn't want to actually go through it myself.

This is the entrance to the kitchen. it is straight ahead from the main entrance to the bar on the left hand wall. I did not see an "exit" sign inside the kitchen or right above it, but I would think that there would be some type of back exit. This is what I believe was the only option for Brian to leave the bar unseen by cameras.

Hopefully you all find these helpful for more context of inside the bar and building bar is located in.

 

[MatthewTyler]

@ 614Buckeye- you're amazing for that! I see the construction area says "hard hat area"- so it's under construction yet again? How often does that building undergo work?

 

[Brainy]

@ 614Buckeye- you're amazing for that! I see the construction area says "hard hat area"- so it's under construction yet again? How often does that building undergo work?

Irony... sweet irony...

 

[neesaki]

Irony... sweet irony...

So is that area perpetually a construction area? Interesting isn't it?