OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[itsrak]

The thing I'm still curious about is the accessibility of the construction site to patrons. I keep hearing conflicting reports of it either being locked up tight with a chain or fairly easy to shimmy through.

None other than the long-time lead detective on the case, Sgt. John Hurst, in a podcast made less than a year ago (linked previously in this thread - you can listen for yourself), speculated the BS may well have entered the 'construction area' alone in the wee hours of 4/1/06. After all, why would they have run the dogs through there unless they thought he could have been in there? He also suggested that BS had likely then gotten 'exited out of' the 'construction area'. But he kinda has to say that, because to suggest that BS didn't make it out of there is to suggest that searchers/LE blew it.

So, the lead detective himself, who was in 2006 personally directly involved in the case and the search has suggested that BS could have been in the construction area. Straight from the horse's mouth. Does that answer your question?

I've had nights myself where I've gone out and gotten too drunk, but never once did I want to walk through a construction site

And you are still alive...

 

[MatthewTyler]

None other than the long-time lead detective on the case, Sgt. John Hurst, in a podcast made less than a year ago (linked previously in this thread - you can listen for yourself), speculated the BS may well have entered the 'construction area' alone in the wee hours of 4/1/06. After all, why would they have run the dogs through there unless they thought he could have been in there? He also suggested that BS had likely then gotten 'exited out of' the 'construction area'. But he kinda has to say that, because to suggest that BS didn't make it out of there is to suggest that searchers/LE blew it.

So, the lead detective himself, who was in 2006 personally directly involved in the case and the search has suggested that BS could have been in the construction area. Straight from the horse's mouth. Does that answer your question?

Yes actually, thank you. It's been awhile since I listened to the podcasts. I guess my main hangup is just still WHY he went in there to begin with. Obviously we can't know what was going through his head at the time, but it just seems odd that he randomly decided to take an alternative exit with no real reasoning. And when he knew Clint and Meredith were waiting for him at closing (supposedly). I just feel like there had to be a reason he went that way

 

[itsrak]

Yes actually, thank you. It's been awhile since I listened to the podcasts. I guess my main hangup is just still WHY he went in there to begin with. Obviously we can't know what was going through his head at the time, but it just seems odd that he randomly decided to take an alternative exit with no real reasoning. And when he knew Clint and Meredith were waiting for him at closing (supposedly). I just feel like there had to be a reason he went that way

Yeah, his motive for entering the construction area - if it happened - is a curiosity. Coulda been anything.

My guess would be that he realized Clint and Meredith were waiting at the bottom of the stairs or outside, and he wanted to lose them, so had to exit via some other means. Maybe he'd had his fill, wanted to go home and crash, didn't want to beg off. Maybe he wanted to hit a strip club, alone, so his GF wouldn't find out. Maybe he want to hook up with one of those two girls, but secretly.... maybe he drunkenly though, hey, what's back here.... who knows....

When BS turns up in Margaritaville, I'll have a big serving of crow. That'd be wonderful.

 

[geojeffrey]

To be clear, Clint has not been ruled out by police.....perhaps they have other working theories they are pursuing, but he has not been cleared.

 

[neesaki]

That's a better explanation than Brian going out a back door for no particular reason and then falling into a hole in a construction site.

Actually I’ve had the long held belief that Brian left using an alternate exit in order to escape Clint and Meredith. Turned of his phone , evaded them completely. He obviously did not appreciate their attempts at manipulation or whatever they were doing to con or entice him into doing something he did not want to do. So his plan of action was to slip away, lose them. Which apparently he did.
And Platinumgirles post validates the reasons he would choose to do so, according to my theory, which is of course just a theory. I don’t think Meredit was initially supposed to be there, at least to Brian’s knowledge, just him and Clint. When Meredith showed up maybe Brian knew the deal was a set up, and he resented it.
I do wonder why Clint wanted to break Brian and Meredith up, at least that’s what appears his goal was. JMO
Whatever happened to Brian after he lost those two is everyone’s guess. He either snuck out and was missed by cameras completely, or he somehow manipulated the cameras himself or had someone else do it for him. Or he left through an area with no working cameras. And then where he ended up... well now that’s the million dollar question isn’t it?

 

[neesaki]

The thing I'm still curious about is the accessibility of the construction site to patrons. I keep hearing conflicting reports of it either being locked up tight with a chain or fairly easy to shimmy through. I don't disagree with XPh's comment about wandering into odd places, but if the construction site was blocked off, then Brian would have had to at least somewhat try to get in there. It still begs the question as to why. I've had nights myself where I've gone out and gotten too drunk, but never once did I want to walk through a construction site

Maybe trying your best to lose a couple of people who had proven to be up to something you didn’t want to go along with, or who you just weren’t having a good time with, or you flat out didn’t deem them trustworthy enough to spend anymore time with...... at least that would maybe do it for me. Jmo

 

[itsrak]

For those who may be interested in listening to Comeback Podcast interview of lead detective on the case:
Listen to ComeBack - A True Crime Podcast

Select Episode #2. Hurst begins answering questions around 6 minutes in. He quickly gets to the point - "...the basic indication right now (recorded around 8 months ago) is that somehow he (Brian) got down into the construction area and most likely (emphasis mine) got exited out of there..."

So, the lead detective suggests that Brian entered the construction area, and maybe made it out. Its been 12 years now. So maybe he didn't make it out. He never appeared on area surveillance cams. In fact, he never appeared anywhere. At all. Ever again.

 

[str8nightowl]

I heard that the band was back in a room with a door that didn't have a camera. I think there was foul play and someone (not sure WHO) hid his body in one of the guitar cases (of one of the band members) and when the band left out that door they left with him (his body) out that door with the band. And no one saw because there was no cameras. And no one suspected anything because it was the band. Just all MY assumptions on that. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

 

[XPh]

I heard that the band was back in a room with a door that didn't have a camera. I think there was foul play and someone (not sure WHO) hid his body in one of the guitar cases (of one of the band members) and when the band left out that door they left with him (his body) out that door with the band. And no one saw because there was no cameras. And no one suspected anything because it was the band. Just all MY assumptions on that. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

A human body would not fit in a guitar case. Also, unless this was done by a band member themselves, I don’t see how this wouldn’t be discovered (either he would be found or the band would notice some sort of huge equipment case missing). If I recall correctly, the band (Rock House) was interviewed and cleared by police.

I just don’t see this as feasible once you start asking questions, to be honest...

 

[Kaie]

For those who may be interested in listening to Comeback Podcast interview of lead detective on the case:
Listen to ComeBack - A True Crime Podcast

Select Episode #2. Hurst begins answering questions around 6 minutes in. He quickly gets to the point - "...the basic indication right now (recorded around 8 months ago) is that somehow he (Brian) got down into the construction area and most likely (emphasis mine) got exited out of there..."

So, the lead detective suggests that Brian entered the construction area, and maybe made it out. Its been 12 years now. So maybe he didn't make it out. He never appeared on area surveillance cams. In fact, he never appeared anywhere. At all. Ever again.

I'm listening to this right now. I have just paused it after that very comment by Hurst, and will resume in a moment. I have actually listened to this podcast before... but wanted to hear it again paying more attention to the wording of that sentence. And yes, if you're looking for any indication Brian may still be on that site... this statement gives you a lot of reason to continue believing it's possible. Hurst wasn't deliberately hinting Brian is still in the building though, he genuinely seems to be leaning the other way. I wonder why LE do think that Brian leaving the building is "most likely". I mean, is there even just a scrap of evidence to support that? I think the answer to that is "no".

 

[Ozoner]

I'm listening to this right now. I have just paused it after that very comment by Hurst, and will resume in a moment. I have actually listened to this podcast before... but wanted to hear it again paying more attention to the wording of that sentence. And yes, if you're looking for any indication Brian may still be on that site... this statement gives you a lot of reason to continue believing it's possible. Hurst wasn't deliberately hinting Brian is still in the building though, he genuinely seems to be leaning the other way. I wonder why LE do think that Brian leaving the building is "most likely". I mean, is there even just a scrap of evidence to support that? I think the answer to that is "no".

I can tell you EXACTLY why LE believes that Brian is no longer on the site: hubris. They looked (who knows how many days after he disappeared) and didn't find him, therefore--in their minds--he isn't there.

 

[itsrak]

I'm listening to this right now. I have just paused it after that very comment by Hurst, and will resume in a moment. I have actually listened to this podcast before... but wanted to hear it again paying more attention to the wording of that sentence. And yes, if you're looking for any indication Brian may still be on that site... this statement gives you a lot of reason to continue believing it's possible. Hurst wasn't deliberately hinting Brian is still in the building though, he genuinely seems to be leaning the other way. I wonder why LE do think that Brian leaving the building is "most likely". I mean, is there even just a scrap of evidence to support that? I think the answer to that is "no".

If you are Det. Hurst (who searched construction area with dogs in 2006), being interviewed in 2018, and you believe and state that Brian likely entered the construction area, you are going to say that Brian 'most likely' made it out. If you say Brian definitely made it out, and his remains are eventually found in the construction area, you look bad. If you say Brian definitely did not make it out, it begs the question 'well, why didn't you excavate and find him at that time?'. But if you say Brian most likely made it out, you're covered.... A big part of being a cop is not rocking the boat so you get to the goal - that fat early pension.

"I wonder why LE do think that Brian leaving the building is "most likely". I mean, is there even just a scrap of evidence to support that? I think the answer to that is "no"." I'd agree that the answer is 'no'. And there are hints that Brian did not make it out of the construction area. His phone started immediately going straight to VM, which I believe a phone unable to ping a tower - such as a phone on a body just buried in an accidental dirt collapse - would. Also, as noted in prior posts, folks in the building noted bad odor after Brian went missing. And according to LE, Brian is the only person seen on tape entering the building that day not also observed on tape exiting the building.

 

[Kaie]

His phone started immediately going straight to VM, which I believe a phone unable to ping a tower - such as a phone on a body just buried in an accidental dirt collapse - would. Also, as noted in prior posts, folks in the building noted bad odor after Brian went missing. And according to LE, Brian is the only person seen on tape entering the building that day not also observed on tape exiting the building.

Yeah, I'm starting to find it hard to believe anything else now.

I'm not too sure about the odour complaints being connected though, since it was also a seafood joint, so any food waste that accumulated in bins waiting to be dumped would be related to seafood as well. And that smell carries too... especially in the warmer months. I've just dealt with that "prawn shells in a bin" smell over the past week. I could smell it all through the house, and I have no idea whose bin they were in, could have been anyone in the immediate neighbourhood. But the only bin especially close to the house is mine, and they weren't in there. I wonder if the negative reviews about the bar were referring to the same sort of thing.

So I'd fully expect a cheap drinks student bar with a seafood menu to stink. I think that if Brian's remains were still present on site by the time people were making those online posts about the bar, he might have been too deep or well encased for that to be the smell that they were referring to.

 

[itsrak]

Yeah, I'm starting to find it hard to believe anything else now.

I'm not too sure about the odour complaints being connected though, since it was also a seafood joint, so any food waste that accumulated in bins waiting to be dumped would be related to seafood as well. And that smell carries too... especially in the warmer months. I've just dealt with that "prawn shells in a bin" smell over the past week. I could smell it all through the house, and I have no idea whose bin they were in, could have been anyone in the immediate neighbourhood. But the only bin especially close to the house is mine, and they weren't in there. I wonder if the negative reviews about the bar were referring to the same sort of thing.

So I'd fully expect a cheap drinks student bar with a seafood menu to stink. I think that if Brian's remains were still present on site by the time people were making those online posts about the bar, he might have been too deep or well encased for that to be the smell that they were referring to.

Yeah, the reported odors could certainly be unrelated to Brian Shaffer. In addition to UTS reputation for stinking, there was a yelp review of the theatre noting an awful stench in the theatre...

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I would think that everyone on site would have questioned if the odor was related Brian's disappearance. Surely the police would have looked into that, since a body accidentally trapped or deliberately hidden would be expected to smell. Either he got out of the building/construction area and met a terrible fate elsewhere, or he died by accident or assault in that space. I've never smelled a decomposing human body, but as a runner, I encountered animals in that state. My dad was a war veteran and said that the smell of human decomp is unmistakeable. I can't recall if they brought search dogs or cadaver dogs into the construction area--does anyone recall?

 

[Kaie]

I can't recall if they brought search dogs or cadaver dogs into the construction area--does anyone recall?

Yes they did... more than once I believe. What we don't know is how much time lapsed between Brian's disappearance and the search with cadaver dogs, and how much the construction site had changed in that time.

People talk about cadaver dogs like they're infallible and have a 100% success rate. But this is not the case at all.

Police once confirmed with Columbus Monthly that they had three theories, but were unable to discuss any of them. In a case where no one knows what to think, three theories seems like a lot of theories really. I'm guessing that Brian's remains being on the site, but missed by all searches, is one of the three.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Three theories is indeed a lot. Dogs are not infallible but that might have resolved the issue of whether the smell was a body. I'm interested in the other two theories.

 

[psych-nurse]

Three theories is indeed a lot. Dogs are not infallible but that might have resolved the issue of whether the smell was a body. I'm interested in the other two theories.

I would imagine the three theories would probably be something like
1. accidental death on site and body remains there under dirt/concrete unknowingly
2. foul play on site and body was deliberately hidden
3. foul play after exiting through the construction site and body was disposed of

I suppose another possible would be that he safely left town of his own volition and is living it up somewhere ...but I can't imagine the police truly believe that.

 

[Kaie]

I suppose another possible would be that he safely left town of his own volition and is living it up somewhere ...but I can't imagine the police truly believe that.

Maybe they do believe that's possible actually, even though they'd be aware that it becomes less and less likely over time.

There have been some cases where missing people turn out to have disappeared purposefully, and then been found alive and well, years down the track. Someone was even charged with murder in one such case in Australia... which the missing girl saw on the news, and started to consider coming forward (then police ended up finding her before she had a chance to, but it was years after she went missing). In that case, she had disappeared to be in a relationship that was forbidden by her family. Whenever that's the motive... that can explain who they got both practical and on-going financial assistance from without ever having to touch a bank account.

I'm definitely not saying that's what happened here (even though a theory about Brian leading a double life has been floated a few times in online discussions). But as much as we may believe he didn't make it out of that site alive (or at all) because he has shown no signs of life in all these years, police may not be able to officially take purposeful disappearance off the table since they found no signs of death either. So that would make it still one of the three existing theories... and I think Clint's lawyer must have known that when he made a bold statement about how Brian is the one who should come forward. Even if he knew that it was at the bottom of their list of theories, he would have been milking the fact that it's on the list at all in order to deflect attention away from his client.

 

[itsrak]

I would imagine the three theories would probably be something like
1. accidental death on site and body remains there under dirt/concrete unknowingly
2. foul play on site and body was deliberately hidden
3. foul play after exiting through the construction site and body was disposed of

I suppose another possible would be that he safely left town of his own volition and is living it up somewhere ...but I can't imagine the police truly believe that.

I concur with your assessment. Me, I think #1 is the theory that is most likely ultimately to be proven accurate. I think #2 is highly unlikely. I'd note that perhaps #3 might be the theory that Tom Waggoner, the father of Brian's GF Alexis most strongly supports, because he is on record in 2006 having stated “The gist of my perspective on Clint Florence is that I think that basically all roads to making any progress on the case on Brian Shaffer lead through Clint Florence.” I'd like to know what Mr. Waggoner knew - other than Clint's perfectly reasonable hiring of a lawyer - that led him to make that statement, a statement that seems to suggest he either believed Clint was involved in Brian's disappearance or at least knew what went down on that morning of 4/1/06. Wonder if he still feels that way 12 years later. Perhaps he, like me, found it just a bit hinky that an OSU professor had OSU students - Clint and Meredith - house-sitting for him. Me, if I'm a professor, no way do I ever invite students to stay in my home. I'd note that according to Don Corbett (the private investigator hired by Randy Shaffer back when - listen to Comeback podcast episode #4), CPD's forensics unit 'processed' the professor's home, went through the professor's home with 'a fine toothed comb' looking for any evidence Brian may have been there. Curious. Also curious was LE's having queried Alexis as to whether perhaps Brian might have been bi/gay. What the heck is the theory LE was pursuing there.....?