OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[614Buckeye]

I made an account to talk about this case. I live maybe 2 miles from the Ugly Tuna and the Gateway area. It was my roommate's favorite bar for a couple years. I have a couple of things to add that I haven't seen mentioned in the two previous threads. Every weekend that I've ever been to this bar, there are uniformed police at the top of the escalators. I have been to Ugly Tuna probably 12 times in the last two years. In the Surveillance Footage from that night, the "security guards" people keep mentioning are 100% uniformed Columbus Police Department Officers. That is the uniform of the CPD, so they aren't "security guards" they are actual police officers. I also find it hard to believe that with the police officers so close to the top of the escalator that they would not notice Brian sneak into the construction zone just mere feet from them, which leads me to believe he returned to the bar. The old construction zone was straight ahead of the escalator, and the bar entrance is to the right. The police as essentially standing at the top of the escalator looking towards the bar as people arrive at the top. They would have seen the entire upper landing, so no one could have gone into the construction zone without them noticing.

Secondly, Clint Florence. I know there is a ton of speculation about him and his role in all of this, but I believe it is most simply summed up with the following: after Brian's mother's death, Brian and Clint may have gotten involved in taking prescription drugs from the hospital or medical facilities they were studying/interning at. Brian could have been taking them to deal with his grief, or was just in a dark place and got a rush from selling or taking these kinds of drugs. Clint could have been involved directly, or just didn't want to ruin his friend's reputation, and so he withheld that information. I also believe that Clint would have been expelled from the medical program if this had come to light, and therefore had asked for immunity from legal trouble from the school and the police.

I learned about this case recently, but I'm so familiar with the area that I find it absolutely fascinating. One more thought on my first post is that back in 2006 that area was really rough. There was a very well known gang that operated in this area called the Short North Posse (Ugly Tuna is on the very north end of what I'd consider 'The Short North'). In 2006, ten of them were arrested on a variety of charges. many more were just arrested and convicted in January and May of 2017. There was a large block of forty that were convicted in 1995. As I said, it was the most well known gang downtown and they were involved in all kinds of crime, including many many murders. Here is an article with information on them: http://www.columbusmonthly.com/lifestyle/20170307/short-north-posses-last-stand

If anyone has specific questions about the area or The Ugly Tuna bar as it is today I can try to help.

 

[dotr]

I made an account to talk about this case. I live maybe 2 miles from the Ugly Tuna and the Gateway area. It was my roommate's favorite bar for a couple years. I have a couple of things to add that I haven't seen mentioned in the two previous threads. Every weekend that I've ever been to this bar, there are uniformed police at the top of the escalators. I have been to Ugly Tuna probably 12 times in the last two years. In the Surveillance Footage from that night, the "security guards" people keep mentioning are 100% uniformed Columbus Police Department Officers. That is the uniform of the CPD, so they aren't "security guards" they are actual police officers. I also find it hard to believe that with the police officers so close to the top of the escalator that they would not notice Brian sneak into the construction zone just mere feet from them, which leads me to believe he returned to the bar. The old construction zone was straight ahead of the escalator, and the bar entrance is to the right. The police as essentially standing at the top of the escalator looking towards the bar as people arrive at the top. They would have seen the entire upper landing, so no one could have gone into the construction zone without them noticing.

Secondly, Clint Florence. I know there is a ton of speculation about him and his role in all of this, but I believe it is most simply summed up with the following: after Brian's mother's death, Brian and Clint may have gotten involved in taking prescription drugs from the hospital or medical facilities they were studying/interning at. Brian could have been taking them to deal with his grief, or was just in a dark place and got a rush from selling or taking these kinds of drugs. Clint could have been involved directly, or just didn't want to ruin his friend's reputation, and so he withheld that information. I also believe that Clint would have been expelled from the medical program if this had come to light, and therefore had asked for immunity from legal trouble from the school and the police.

I learned about this case recently, but I'm so familiar with the area that I find it absolutely fascinating. One more thought on my first post is that back in 2006 that area was really rough. There was a very well known gang that operated in this area called the Short North Posse (Ugly Tuna is on the very north end of what I'd consider 'The Short North'). In 2006, ten of them were arrested on a variety of charges. many more were just arrested and convicted in January and May of 2017. There was a large block of forty that were convicted in 1995. As I said, it was the most well known gang downtown and they were involved in all kinds of crime, including many many murders. Here is an article with information on them: http://www.columbusmonthly.com/lifestyle/20170307/short-north-posses-last-stand

If anyone has specific questions about the area or The Ugly Tuna bar as it is today I can try to help.

Welcome to Ws 614 Buckeye, delighted to have you here, thanks for the interesting and informative first post!

 

[614Buckeye]

One more thing - these days, the bar has their own bouncer or two right at the entrance, and the two officers are always at the top of the stairs outside the entrance to the bar, but within the building the bar is in. So there are kind of two layers of security. Again, the level of supervision over the maybe 10 square foot area at the top of escalators would have been immense. Even more reason that I find the idea he sneaked into the construction zone entrance at the top of the escalators impossible.

The caveat here is that I don't know if the bouncers were posted in the same spot 11 years ago as they are today, but the police are still in the same spot so I find it likely.

 

[neesaki]

One more thing - these days, the bar has their own bouncer or two right at the entrance, and the two officers are always at the top of the stairs outside the entrance to the bar, but within the building the bar is in. So there are kind of two layers of security. Again, the level of supervision over the maybe 10 square foot area at the top of escalators would have been immense. Even more reason that I find the idea he sneaked into the construction zone entrance at the top of the escalators impossible.

The caveat here is that I don't know if the bouncers were posted in the same spot 11 years ago as they are today, but the police are still in the same spot so I find it likely.

Thank you so much for your post and this valuable insight. The prescription drug theory has always been at the top of my list. I’m wondering now if you have any theories as to how Brian got out of the bar undetected by cameras? TIA

And welcome to the thread! :welcome:

 

[Deleted member 155000]

614 Buckeye, thanks for joining and thanks for sharing your ideas.

I'm intrigued by your idea that there might've been police officers on duty that night. I've been reading articles about this for many years, including some interviews with the police detectives who handled the case. And the two people stationed there were always referred to as security guards. If we find out they were police officers, that would be an interesting twist.

I suppose they could've just been regular security guards back then, but maybe this incident and other crimes in the area caused them to increase the level of security since then.

Either way, it's good to know that the construction exit was easily visible from those people's position.

I've always wondered about the prescription drug angle as well. Since Brian and Clint were med school students and since Clint seemingly feared incriminating himself, I think that's the natural hypothesis a lot of us consider.

As I've mentioned, I tend to believe Brian met his end either through a crime or an accident. And I think it likely happened, at least in part, because of him being under the influence. If that's the case, I hope they uncover the body someday so his brother, ex-girlfriend, and friends can get some peace of mind.

But honestly, after this many years, I tend to think that the people who have the answers to this case may even frequent this site still. If I was Clint, a different college friend, Alexis, Derek...or--on the off chance, even Brian himself...I don't know how I could resist occasionally Googling the case to see what's being said about it. Every once in a while I'll close my posts with an appeal: If you know something, and there's a way to bring closure to those who loved Brian, please consider even sending an anonymous letter to the police department. If what happened wasn't intentional...if it was an accident, or even a consequence of poor choices made by people who were still young, let yourself sleep better knowing you gave his family what little comfort you could.

 

[Brainy]

Thanks everyone for your tremendous insight. I just wanted to comment on taking prescription drugs from a hospital/healthcare facility. Drug diversion i sa huge problem created by healthcare workers who abuse their position. However, in modern day, the chances of taking controlled substances and not being caught are very slim, especially for a medical student (whose practice is monitored even closer). These high-risk, controlled and high-alert drugs are routinely counted and inventoried. If you are under suspicion, you are “flagged”, required to take a drug test and interviewed. I can tell you that a medical student taking controlled meds and not being caught are not likely. It’s possible to get similar drugs off the street than from a hospital. I am curious to hear other opinions, though.

 

[Jim1981_GR]

My personal theory is that Brian died inside the bar, probably in a unmonitored staff or construction area during or a little after closing time. His body was secretly moved away from the bar during that night inside a trash bag or inside one of those boxes for musical equipment and then hidden in a remote place. I believe that he died either accidentally (by overdose or a substance that could be proved lethal combining with the high quantities of alcohol he had consumed, or during a fight with people who are related to the bar operation) or intentionally by people who had "marked" him as an easy prey due to his inability to react and fight having been heavily intoxicated.

Let's explain some of the above. First of all intoxication is a bad factor to one's safety. It facilitates mishaps such as injuries, disorientation, quarrels, being exploited by people with bad intentions etc...Being intoxicated make you also very unpleasant and annoying to other people. You could say bad things to them, you could insult them without understanding it, you could tease their girlfriend or even try to put hands on them in an improper way. You may also become violent. All these provoking behaviors could lead to a fight. And perhaps most of fights don't result to deaths but occasionally a death can happen if the involved persons cannot return to calmness. A punch and a fall can result in tongue swallowing. An abrupt fall on the ground can make your neck break or your head bleed. Repeated punches and kicks on the head could also be fatal. You could lose your life in a fight if you are stubbed by knife or being hit on the head by a heavy item.

Here in Greece, we recently had a case of a tourist who died that way out of a bar after being hit several times on the head by other customers due to a selfie he took with a waitress from the killers' company.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-a-selfie-police-say/?utm_term=.8ea30e458ad2

Tensions and violence in night bars are not uncommon. Customers can easily lose their temper especially if their girlfriends are approached by strangers. So could we have a similar scenario in Brian's case with the difference that his fatal beating took place in a closed and unseen area, back-of-the house? Remember two things: 1) Most customers would have left near or after closing time so the number of possible witnesses is decreased. 2) Brian was seen speaking to two girls a few minutes before closing. So maybe that night (and due to his intoxication) he showed an inclination to speak to other women to an extent that some of their friends could get pissed off and attacking him afterwards.

A possible death inside the bar and the subsequent transportation of the body inside a bag or a box would explain the missing of Brian at the cameras of the bar and the cameras of surrounding bars also. On the contrary, people moving out trash bags or music equipment boxes would be seen as a "normal" procedure on the cameras.

So if this is the case, we can almost certainly conclude that more than one people were involved in the disappearance because a deed like that needs more than one pair of hands to be done successfully. It needs cooperation. This leads us to another conclusion. Probably the perpetrators had closed relationships and strong bonds between them. They could be close friends with increased feeling of solidarity among them. They could be siblings or relatives (cousins etc) who would not wish to have their lives destroyed by a murder that may have happened accidentally, as a result of an exaggeration. They could be co-workers, band members and best friends or band members with the collaboration of friend who was working at the bar. All of these people have strong motive to hide a body and cover up the incident.

I think that this is the most possible scenario. Some guys killed Brian that night, either accidentally or intentionally (to rob him). This is the only scenario that explains the "camera didn't catch him leave" issue. This scenario is also consistent with the increased crime rate in Columbus which forced many bars to install cameras. Other scenarios can be plausible only if we consider the Ugly Tuna camera system problematic. But the police seem to have thoroughly checked all the cameras in the area without finding Brian, and that's also why I firmly believe that sth happened inside the bar.

 

[MatthewTyler]

So if this is the case, we can almost certainly conclude that more than one people were involved in the disappearance because a deed like that needs more than one pair of hands to be done successfully. It needs cooperation. This leads us to another conclusion. Probably the perpetrators had closed relationships and strong bonds between them. They could be close friends with increased feeling of solidarity among them. They could be siblings or relatives (cousins etc) who would not wish to have their lives destroyed by a murder that may have happened accidentally, as a result of an exaggeration. They could be co-workers, band members and best friends or band members with the collaboration of friend who was working at the bar. All of these people have strong motive to hide a body and cover up the incident.

Whenever I hear a theory about a group of people covering the crime, it makes me think of the quote from Benjamin Franklin: "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead". I have trouble believing that numerous people can hold their tongue for so long. All it takes is for one person to mention something to a buddy who wasn't originally in on it (either out of guilt or bragging about creating this "mystery") and then BAM! rumors fly. This is why I never necessarily suspected a bunch of staff from the Ugly Tuna. At least one staff member would talk I'm sure. Especially so once the high monetary rewards were offered. The only exception I can see where a group of people can keep a secret is the mafia. Anyone who talks to the cops knows DAMN SURE that they're going to disappear next.

 

[Jim1981_GR]

Yes, you make a good point about the number of people involved and the risk of someone giving away sth. But perhaps this is also the reason why police has received many tips all these years about the case. Some people connected to the disappearance say sth but not "too much" to be considered strong evidence, obtaining only the status of a rumor or a hoax. In my scenario I think that the ideal number of perpetrators could be around 3. They are not too many to the extent of revealing sth under pressure or being seduced by rewards. And I don't think that a participant to a fatal crime would risk his safety just for earning a big reward. He has done sth abominable and he must take it to his grave if he wants to live free until his end. Only if this person cannot overcome his remorse could make him break sometime. 11 years of keeping a horrible secret may not be enough for some dudes to come forward and finally tell the truth.

 

[Jim1981_GR]

Another thought that could explain why cameras from nearby bars did not show Brian is that the perpetrators took Brian out from the staff exit leading to the construction site -which was not monitored by CCTV if I remember correctly- and then put him immediately in a vehicle parked there just some meters away from the coverage area of the nearest camera of other bars transporting him away to hide the body. Even if external CCTV covers a decent street and sidewalk area, there may be some blind spots or further obstructions such as columns, tents, signs, trees etc that block a percentage of view.

Brian could also leave the bar late after closing with this music band via the service door, entering the vehicle which was out of the view of other cameras. They went to party elsewhere and sth bad happened to him either intentionally or accidentally and they hide the body far from his area. We just need to clarify if this service door and the construction site were adequately monitored. If not, it is likely Brian's disappearance starts from there.

 

[614Buckeye]

Here's a comparison photo I threw together including video from the night of Brian's disappearance, showing Brian and the uniformed officers in one shot, and another shot of what Columbus police officers uniforms look like. I am quite confident that those are two CPD officers standing within feet of Brian in the surveillance shot.

 

[dotr]

Most bars have a " bouncer " or 2 at the door, but police?
Is that typical for any US campus bar, or have there been problems at the LT that necessitated hiring them?

 

[614Buckeye]

As I posted about near bottom of page 3, The Ugly Tuna these days usually has a bouncer or two at the front of the bar entrance every day of the week. There are also typically two police officers posted at the top of the stairs as well, about 15 feet from the entrance of the bar every weekend. There are many other restaurants/bars, shops, a movie theater in that area, probably contributing to the police presence. Another thing to keep in mind is that the people showing up to this bar are mostly drunk college kids so fighting/altercations would probably be more likely than other bars in Columbus, so that is another contributing factor. Finally, as I mentioned on the previous page, this area is known to most long-time Columbus residents as an area that has attracted shady and/or other bad elements in the past (thought it has come a long way from the time Brian disappeared).

I would imagine that it is actually the property managing company that hires the special duty officers, not the bar itself, as the police are always outside the bar and in the vicinity of other businesses as well.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Here's a comparison photo I threw together including video from the night of Brian's disappearance, showing Brian and the uniformed officers in one shot, and another shot of what Columbus police officers uniforms look like. I am quite confident that those are two CPD officers standing within feet of Brian in the surveillance shot.

They do look similar. I appreciate the photos. I have read soooo many articles about this case over the years and don’t recall ever hearing that security was staffed by police. If it was mentioned, I must have forgotten it. Or it wasn’t mentioned.

So let’s reflect on this together. If the security staff were indeed police, does that change anything about how we perceive the case unfolding?

 

[614Buckeye]

It is strange it isn't mentioned, but the picture comparison and my personal experience leads me to believe they are officers. They simply must have been left out of reports because they are not in the bar itself, but just outside the door. The inside of the bar entranceway has Ugly Tuna bouncers as well.

I believe it mostly changes one theory that I've seen in the three threads about Brian's night, and that is the theory that he snuck through the construction door and met his demise in the construction zone, thus evading all cameras. In the descriptions and videos I've seen of the bar area at the time, the construction door that is central to the theory is essentially straight ahead after getting off the escalator. That coincides with the building now, which has a short hallway straight ahead with the next building through doors in that hallway.
As I tried to explain in previous posts, the bar is to the right of that landing at the top of the escalators. The cops are standing on the left, the bar entrance with bouncers is on the right. So you have a lot of supervision at the exact area where I've seen the old construction doors were. I think it's impossible that the police would have not seen someone trying to go through those doors, or if they did, to just a random drunk guy wander into a construction zone.

My next point is predicated on a couple assumptions that I will list here:
1. The police were correct when they asserted that Brian never left the front entrance that he entered at.
2. No one in the bar had been planning a murder at their work and also possessed the skills of expert crime-scene cleaner/eraser.
3. Brian is not still alive (in the bar, or elsewhere).

If we can accept those to be true, then I think the only option is that he left with an employee or drunk stumbled upon the employee entrance/exit and left the bar. From there it's impossible to say. If he was with an employee, did an altercation occur with that person? If alone, who happened upon him while he was doing whatever he was doing? Other than my familiarity with this area, I, like many of you here, can only speculate as to what happened to him next. As I've laid out in previous posts, that area in 2006 was not a nice neighborhood, and there were known groups of people who used it as a hunting ground for robberies and worse.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

It is strange it isn't mentioned, but the picture comparison and my personal experience leads me to believe they are officers. They simply must have been left out of reports because they are not in the bar itself, but just outside the door. The inside of the bar entranceway has Ugly Tuna bouncers as well.

I believe it mostly changes one theory that I've seen in the three threads about Brian's night, and that is the theory that he snuck through the construction door and met his demise in the construction zone, thus evading all cameras. In the descriptions and videos I've seen of the bar area at the time, the construction door that is central to the theory is essentially straight ahead after getting off the escalator. That coincides with the building now, which has a short hallway straight ahead with the next building through doors in that hallway.
As I tried to explain in previous posts, the bar is to the right of that landing at the top of the escalators. The cops are standing on the left, the bar entrance with bouncers is on the right. So you have a lot of supervision at the exact area where I've seen the old construction doors were. I think it's impossible that the police would have not seen someone trying to go through those doors, or if they did, to just a random drunk guy wander into a construction zone.

My next point is predicated on a couple assumptions that I will list here:
1. The police were correct when they asserted that Brian never left the front entrance that he entered at.
2. No one in the bar had been planning a murder at their work and also possessed the skills of expert crime-scene cleaner/eraser.
3. Brian is not still alive (in the bar, or elsewhere).

If we can accept those to be true, then I think the only option is that he left with an employee or drunk stumbled upon the employee entrance/exit and left the bar. From there it's impossible to say. If he was with an employee, did an altercation occur with that person? If alone, who happened upon him while he was doing whatever he was doing? Other than my familiarity with this area, I, like many of you here, can only speculate as to what happened to him next. As I've laid out in previous posts, that area in 2006 was not a nice neighborhood, and there were known groups of people who used it as a hunting ground for robberies and worse.

I agree. Everything you have said here fits with the impressions I have shared here as well.

My impressions of the detectives on this case, after reading repeated interviews, is that the detectives bonded with Brian’s dad and felt personally moved to assist him. In my opinion, they went to great lengths to turn over every stone. After Brian’s dad died, they seemed determined to eventually close this case to honor his search for answers/justice for his son.

I was convinced by the interviews that the officers had closely examined the video footage, pausing it and unpausing it with multiple viewers and methodically recording the movements of each person in the field of every camera. I believe they interviewed security guards and people on scene and felt extremely confident that Brian did not go through the chained construction door. They also took dogs through the building and surrounding area more than once and searched dumpsters in the vicinity.

I accept your assumptions. They are mine as well. I think it is unlikely this was a pre-meditated crime. The most likely scenario to me is that Brian met with an accident or foul play in part due to being under the influence and possibly due to being with bad company, so to speak. Whether he walked out or was carried out, I don’t know for sure. But I think it is unlikely he is still alive (although not impossible).

I am also accepting the assumption that the police serving In this building or on this case did so with general competency and good faith.

The only other possibility that has occurred to me is that *if* Brian was carried out, there are obviously some people who would have possibly had the ability to maneuver the manual camera (which panned and could be remotely controlled) to avoid an exit as well. But I don’t see this as likely as I believe with the way the police scrutinized the video second by second that they would have uncovered any unusual camera activity or broken or erased footage.

 

[Jim1981_GR]

As I tried to explain in previous posts, the bar is to the right of that landing at the top of the escalators. The cops are standing on the left, the bar entrance with bouncers is on the right. So you have a lot of supervision at the exact area where I've seen the old construction doors were. I think it's impossible that the police would have not seen someone trying to go through those doors, or if they did, to just a random drunk guy wander into a construction zone.

Maybe that night near the time of Brian's departure from the bar, the security guards were not in their place. They might have gone for a break, or be distracted by sth else or supervising another area of the building. I mean it would be possible to miss someone who would get into that staff exit door for whatever reason.

 

[614Buckeye]

Maybe that night near the time of Brian's departure from the bar, the security guards were not in their place. They might have gone for a break, or be distracted by sth else or supervising another area of the building. I mean it would be possible to miss someone who would get into that staff exit door for whatever reason.

Except that at 1:55AM the police officers are standing right at the top of the stairs, as seen in the video clip I snipped. If they were there at 1:55AM it suggests to me that they were there to ensure everyone left successfully with no altercations when the bar closed at 2:00AM.

 

[ekardh]

I wish they could scan the area of the construction site, because I have little doubt Brian is buried there somewhere. The only mystery is how the police missed him when they searched the site, but even that isn’t inexplicable when you allow for human fallibility. I don’t think there was any foul play involved. Drunk guy left through the wrong exit, there was construction going on in the building, do the maths. Until I hear a compelling alternative, I’m sticking to the most parsimonious answer.

 

[dotr]

I wish they could scan the area of the construction site, because I have little doubt Brian is buried there somewhere. The only mystery is how the police missed him when they searched the site, but even that isn’t inexplicable when you allow for human fallibility. I don’t think there was any foul play involved. Drunk guy left through the wrong exit, there was construction going on in the building, do the maths. Until I hear a compelling alternative, I’m sticking to the most parsimonious answer.

Well it would help to know once and for all if there is a body somewhere in that building.
What could be done at this point to encourage another full on search for Brian?
It would not be shocking if Brian ultimately is found there, but neither would i be surprised if he took off on his own.
Wondering if Brian's ex, AW might get her construction worker husband's take on that?
speculation, imo.