OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

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Cool Cats said:
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Basically all her attorney has to do is defend her against 2 charges. They took 2 things she did and squeezed 5 crimes out of it. They took one thing Fred did and doubled it.

Forging documents and lying under oath are the 2 crimes. If the prosecution is over blowing her GJ testimony, like with Fred's, then the Jury won't like that and if they don't believe she lied then 2 charges will be dismissed.

Same with the forged documents. If the Jury concludes that Rita legally notarized them and she had no reason to think they were forged, then 3 charges will be dismissed.

She has a good Case or her attorney would get her a plea deal where they drop 3 or 4 of her charges.

Why else would he risk taking it to trial? Because it could be the other way around. The Jury catches her in a lie--BOOM--she's automatically guilty of 2 charges. If they think she knew she was notarizing a fraudulent document--BAM--she ends up being guilty of 3 charges. Her attorney is risking alot -- 5 charges.

But the question you ask is why dump all these charges on her in the
first place?

It's because they can't indict her on the Count they really wish they could indict her on, the 4 Wagner's are indicted for it:

Count 22 Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity -- She is listed in this Count but they don't have the evidence to prove this charge.

... 2 Cents Opinion Only ...
Click to expand...

The only problem is that a notary can't unknowingly notarize forged documents. If she didn't witness Hannah sign the form/forms, it was illegal for her to notarize them.
 
GoBuckeyes said:
The only problem is that a notary can't unknowingly notarize forged documents. If she didn't witness Hannah sign the form/forms, it was illegal for her to notarize them.
Click to expand...

Your right, thanks. I also take your point to mean
the whole forgery case hinges on HR's signature, that's why they got hand writing samples (I don't remember which discovery mentions it).

Rita will have to say HR signed the documents in front of her. It seems to boil down to whether or not HR's signature is proved to be real or not. The prosecution will get an expert to testify that it's a forged signature, the defense will have an expert say it is her handwriting.

The prosecution can back up their expert's testimony with witness testimony. Witnesses who will say that HR would never sign custody papers for the Wagners, and then give reasons why. I would be surprised if the defense could dig up those types of witnesses who would say the opposite.....2 Cents.....

Rita's July 25th Supplemental Discovery lists 3 additional witnesses:

Special Agent J. Jenkins from BCI SIU Major Crimes
Major A. Lewis from Ross County Sheriff's Office
J. Berry from BCI, CIU analyst

Special Investigations Unit (SIU)
How We Investigate Fraud and Compliance
Ohio Auditor of State Keith Faber

The Criminal Intelligence Unit (CIU) collects, processes, analyzes, and disseminates criminal intelligence to law enforcement agencies throughout Ohio. The unit focuses on organized crime, major crimes, criminal gangs, fugitive apprehension, and organized drug trafficking operations.
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Law-Enforcement/Bureau-of-Criminal-Investigation/Investigation-Division.aspx



 
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If Hanna's signature was forged, it was obviously because it was something Hanna refused to sign.

That goes to motive, child custody. They have to charge and convict Rita to get it into the record so they can bring it up into the trials of the W4's, right?

JMO.
 
rsd1200 said:
I think they need her. They need her for exactly what you said; She falsified documents. It doesn't mean she knew about the plans for the murders, but, the Ws got her to falsify them and the prosecution needs to prove that she did. If they can't show proof then how can the prosecution use that against the defendants?
Click to expand...

BBM
That's always been my impression. Prosecutors have no proof that RN knew about the murders, but her participation in forging the documents was part of the overall plan to kill the Rhodens and take custody of Sophia. At minimum, RN probably knew the forged documents were to be used because JW failed to intimidate HR into signing over custody.
 
evelezrn said:
If Hanna's signature was forged, it was obviously because it was something Hanna refused to sign.

That goes to motive, child custody. They have to charge and convict Rita to get it into the record so they can bring it up into the trials of the W4's, right?

JMO.
Click to expand...

I think getting a conviction against RN helps their case re child custody motive, but it's probably not critical to it. There are other witnesses, including Leonard Manley, who knew of the fight JW had with Hanna a few weeks prior to the murders, when he demanded she sign the documents to give him custody.

I also think there were other motives for the murders related to the business relationship between CR1 and Billy Wagner. Just speculating, but given Billy's criminal past, he may have stolen something from CR1 or tried to pass off stolen goods. Because of the threats to Hanna by JW, CR1 may have threatened to go to police with info about Billy's criminal activity.

The indictments say that the Wagner's active plot to kill the Rhoden family began sometime in the first weeks of 2016. Whatever it was, something occurred at the end of 2015 or very beginning of 2016.

Link to timeline

OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48

Also a reminder that Leonard Manley's account of the intimidation of Hannah includes the fact that both JW and his dad, Billy Wagner, were present for the intimidation attack on Hanna.
 
Cool Cats said:
.
Basically all her attorney has to do is defend her against 2 charges. They took 2 things she did and squeezed 5 crimes out of it. They took one thing Fred did and doubled it.

Forging documents and lying under oath are the 2 crimes. If the prosecution is over blowing her GJ testimony, like with Fred's, then the Jury won't like that and if they don't believe she lied then 2 charges will be dismissed.

Same with the forged documents. If the Jury concludes that Rita legally notarized them and she had no reason to think they were forged, then 3 charges will be dismissed.

She has a good Case or her attorney would get her a plea deal where they drop 3 or 4 of her charges.

Why else would he risk taking it to trial? Because it could be the other way around. The Jury catches her in a lie--BOOM--she's automatically guilty of 2 charges. If they think she knew she was notarizing a fraudulent document--BAM--she ends up being guilty of 3 charges. Her attorney is risking alot -- 5 charges.

But the question you ask is why dump all these charges on her in the
first place?

It's because they can't indict her on the Count they really wish they could indict her on, the 4 Wagner's are indicted for it:

Count 22 Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity -- She is listed in this Count but they don't have the evidence to prove this charge.

... 2 Cents Opinion Only ...
Click to expand...

JMO, I don't think they would bring the Pattern of Corrupt Activity charge against her if they didn't have some evidence. It may be that proving the other charges in court may make the evidence stronger.

Agree about the importance of catching RN in some lies.
 
Betty P said:
JMO, I don't think they would bring the Pattern of Corrupt Activity charge against her if they didn't have some evidence. It may be that proving the other charges in court may make the evidence stronger.

Agree about the importance of catching RN in some lies.
Click to expand...

She was never charged for the Count 22 Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity. Evidently the Fraud and Obstruction of Justice charges were enough to get her name mentioned in the indictment but not enough to actually charge her.

Now if they found some of the Rhoden's stolen items on her property then that would tie her into theft and would be enough to indict her for the Pattern of Corrupt Activity Charge. They just don't have enough--yet.

What is Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity?
Someone who knowingly has received any proceeds derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of corrupt activity.

Columbus and Delaware, Ohio Engaging in Pattern of Corrupt Activity Attorney-Lawyer

Engaging in corrupt activity - Funkhouser Law

Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity in Ohio is typically paired with offenses such as theft, receiving stolen property, fraud and murder. For example, the allegation could be that a group of individuals conspired to commit theft as part of an ongoing criminal conspiracy.
  • Person employed by or associated with any enterprise,
  • Conducting or participating in the affairs of the enterprise,
  • Through a pattern of corrupt activity or the collection of an unlawful debt.
 
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crazyhorse60 said:
If she knowingly notarized a forged signature doesn't that kind of imply that she knew the signer wouldn't be around to report that?
Click to expand...

Wow! You are right! So simple. So chilling. Right in front of me.

Rita: I can't forge Hanna's signature, Hanna will dispute it.

Angela: Don't worry about it, she won't.

Rita: What if she does? How do you know?

Angela:Please just sign it, trust me it will be taken care of, you won't get into trouble.

Rita would have had to, at the very least, been suspicious about what they were planning. Then after the murders she would have known. Even if Angie denied it Rita would know the whole thing was no coincidence.

For the first time I'm coming to terms with the possibility that Rita knew something would happen but didn't try to stop it. That she turned a "blind eye" and played the "I don't want to know anything" card...2 Cents....

I mean if she really did falsely notarized Hanna's signature. If she's found guilty...
 
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crazyhorse60 said:
Do we know for sure that she did this before the murders. If it was after they might have told her that they didn't want to risk the girl being sent to a distant relative or something. Just speculating.
Click to expand...

In Court Canepa said the documents were printed out in April 2016:

Canepa: "Their (Angie and Rita) talking about the date on the bottom of the paper which is the date April 2016 when the documents were printed out and how she copied it over."

Count 18 Forgery, in the Wagner indictments, says the custody documents were forged on or about April 3, 2016.

Count 18 Forgery page 1
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/25

Count 18 Forgery page 2
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/26
 
crazyhorse60 said:
Wow, then I can't see how she couldn't have known the plan. I guess we'll see at the trial what her defense is.
Click to expand...
Yes @crazyhorse60 it does seem that she would have known the plan.

This is why I believe Fred and Rita were charged --- they were charged because the prosecution believes that they knew the 4 Wagner's committed the murders and they tried to cover it. (The prosecution might even think that they knew something before the murders took place)

#1.) Rita being asked to forge documents with the understanding that HR would not be around to contest those documents.

#2.) Fred listening to revenge and escape plans in her home making it seem she knew what was going on.

#3.) Proof Fred discussed her GJ testimony against the Judge's implicit instuctions, and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to conclude that Fred was conversing with the Wagner 4 about her GJ testimony.

There is a lot going on here....
For instance, it's been revealed in Court that Jake Wagner was indeed violent with one of the victins, HR in my opinion, and that he committed theft against the victim(s) and also committed some type of other illegal act(s) against them. This is coming out in the pre-trial hearings and we are not even to their actual trials yet......2 Cents ........o_O

RITA NEWCOMB BAIL REVOCATION HEARING - PART ONE:

Canepa:
"...I think he threw into the Motion that there is some evidence that Mr. Wagner was violent with one of the victims prior to the homicides. And that there was some theft issues there's certainly other, other acts, um..information... "
 
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Cool Cats said:
She was never charged for the Count 22 Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity. Evidently the Fraud and Obstruction of Justice charges were enough to get her name mentioned in the indictment but not enough to actually charge her.

Now if they found some of the Rhoden's stolen items on her property then that would tie her into theft and would be enough to indict her for the Pattern of Corrupt Activity Charge. They just don't have enough--yet.

What is Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity?
Someone who knowingly has received any proceeds derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of corrupt activity.

Columbus and Delaware, Ohio Engaging in Pattern of Corrupt Activity Attorney-Lawyer

Engaging in corrupt activity - Funkhouser Law

Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity in Ohio is typically paired with offenses such as theft, receiving stolen property, fraud and murder. For example, the allegation could be that a group of individuals conspired to commit theft as part of an ongoing criminal conspiracy.
  • Person employed by or associated with any enterprise,
  • Conducting or participating in the affairs of the enterprise,
  • Through a pattern of corrupt activity or the collection of an unlawful debt.
Click to expand...

CC, good post! Following is a perfect example of ORC 2923.32 (A)(1):

UPDATE: Man, Girlfriend Sentenced in Oxycodone Trafficking Ring

Stuckey's charges are on Scioto County Common Pleas website.

And it should be noted the previous happened in South Webster and AW's uncle is among the list.

The 4 Wagners' charges also contain, in addition to the same charge above, a slash ( / ) 2923.32(B)(1) to the "Engaging....." which is due to all the felony charges on them.

Last but not least, AW's father/RN's ex, is indeed the one-and-the-same ALL listed, including the Edward C. with the FORGERY charges and the Edward with the controlled substances charges listed on the Scioto County of Common Pleas website. Marshall and Merean were judges, both of whom are crooks and have been brought down.

One last thing...AW's Dad is the John Doe in the indictments. JMO

Last, but not least, it is common practice for the Prosecutor to present the bare minimum evidence to get an indictment, and then not to show their hand in the charges filed. Smart. JMO

ALL MY OPINION ONLY.
 
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