OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

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Satchie said:
The prosecution announced at the time of the arrests that the motivation was a custody dispute, we all know that.

However, I don't believe we've ever heard details of actual incidents of confrontations: who said what to whom, who was involved. Did Hannah's parents get involved, did she get legal advice. Etc.

So I just wasted several minutes watching the first link and it says absolutely nothing except that Wagner properties were searched, no one knows why (just to try to save anyone else from similarly wasting their time)

The second link has this quote:
"Wagner tried to get Hanna to sign over her custody rights to the girl but her family said she refused, according to WLWT-TV."

So I followed that up, and I think the quote from WLWT-TV is this one:

"Although prosecutors declined to discuss details of the custody battle, the Rhoden family said the Wagners tried to get Hanna Rhoden to sign her rights over to Jake Wagner weeks before the massacre." Rhoden family: Child at center of custody battle is safe

We don't know what that means. Some people may be jumping to the conclusion that the tactics that were allegedly used on GW4's ex were also used on Hannah. But that's an assumption. Perhaps Hannah's parents stood up for her. Perhaps she got legal advice. Perhaps the W's realized intimidation wouldn't work and tried using sugar. We just don't know.

The actual evidence for any claim made on WS is important, and I will continue to search it out and challenge statements that aren't backed up by evidence. Just as I spent far too much time challenging claims about Mexican drug gangs and other theories lacking evidence, before the suspects were charged.
Click to expand...

Of course, we'll find out when these cases go to trial.

Also, prosecutor Canepa mentioned violence in the relationship between Jake and Hannah

Past suspect behaviors, grisly murder scene photos may play parts in Rhoden trials - Portsmouth Daily Times

As one example of the motions argued Tuesday, defense attorney Gregory Meyers asked the court not to allow the prosecution to mention his client’s alleged previous behavior during his murder trial.

“There is some evidence Mr. Wagner was violent with one of the victims prior to the murders,” said state Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa, seemingly indicating the prosecution wants to present that alleged incident as part of the case against Wagner.
Click to expand...

So, its possible that there was some violence involved in the attempt to get HR to sign custody documents prior to the murders. It may not have been violence directed at her, it may have been directed at her mother or father or any other family members who witnessed the visit.

Engaging in violence was inappropriate in that situation. JW should have pursued custody or visitation rights through the courts, as most do. Some have theorized that he was reluctant to pursue that course as he impregnated Hannah when she was a minor.

JMO

ETA
Relevant video of JW's recent motions hearing cued to Prosecutor Canepa's argument about JW's past violent behavior. Starts around the 31 minute mark


As for any speculation being made here on WS, we're sticking with what's known from the news media, the hearings and discovery documents.

No one is alleging as fact that any specific acts took place regarding the custody agreements and prior attempts to pressure HR to sign over custody of her daughter. Based on evidence at hand, some people have offered their opinions. The state prosecutors, the indictments and the Ohio Atty General have all stated very clearly that custody was a major motive for the murders. If you want we can provide you with more links to that information.
 
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Cool Cats said:
There have been many links to articles posted over this year about relatives being quoted in articles that there was a custody dispute, Jake was abusive, both Jake and Billy tried to strong arm Hanna into giving up custody. I can vouch to what Betty said. Go look through past articles. It's all there. Do the research.
:eek:I have myself probably posted a dozen links to these articles.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Wow! I've done a lot of research. And I understand there was an ongoing custody struggle. What I was asking about was direct information about an "intimidation attack" by Jake on Hanna, or proof of Jake trying to take full custody of Sofia. As Betty P just pointed out, it is not clear to me in the articles you cited. JMO
 
Cool Cats said:
Wow! You are right! So simple. So chilling. Right in front of me.

Rita: I can't forge Hanna's signature, Hanna will dispute it.

Angela: Don't worry about it, she won't.

Rita: What if she does? How do you know?

Angela:Please just sign it, trust me it will be taken care of, you won't get into trouble.

Rita would have had to, at the very least, been suspicious about what they were planning. Then after the murders she would have known. Even if Angie denied it Rita would know the whole thing was no coincidence.

For the first time I'm coming to terms with the possibility that Rita knew something would happen but didn't try to stop it. That she turned a "blind eye" and played the "I don't want to know anything" card...2 Cents....

I mean if she really did falsely notarized Hanna's signature. If she's found guilty...
Click to expand...

D
 
Daytocincy said:
Wow! I've done a lot of research. And I understand there was an ongoing custody struggle. What I was asking about was direct information about an "intimidation attack" by Jake on Hanna, or proof of Jake trying to take full custody of Sofia. As Betty P just pointed out, it is not clear to me in the articles you cited. JMO
Click to expand...

There are allegations by at least one witness we know of that there was an attempt to make HR sign over custody of her daughter. There may be other witnesses as well. None are going to be discussing it in the media right now as the trials are upcoming.

Some members have expressed their opinion here that they feel that's what happened. It's ok to express an opinion, I think we already discussed that. It's also ok for you to have a different opinion. As mentioned before, the state will present their evidence at trial. We may learn a lot more about it during RN's trial.
 
Daytocincy said:
Wow! I've done a lot of research. And I understand there was an ongoing custody struggle. What I was asking about was direct information about an "intimidation attack" by Jake on Hanna, or proof of Jake trying to take full custody of Sofia. As Betty P just pointed out, it is not clear to me in the articles you cited. JMO
Click to expand...
Hello Datocincy
I noticed that you said you have did a lot of research on the Rhodens murders, I would like to ask you a question about what is your take on the way Big Chris’s truck was parked behind Little Chris car and why wasn’t Little Chris’s car parked at Dana’s house because that is where his body was found, do you think that the killers drove Big Chris’s truck to Kenny home and that is the reason he let his guard down, he might have looked out and saw Chris Sr truck and didn’t get his gun to protect himself,

Chris Sr, GPS from his F150 is listed in Discovery?
 
We have a jury trial date for Newcomb!

Newcomb:

Docket:
10/18/2019 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: JURY TRIAL
Date: 11/18/2019 Time: 08:30 AM

Hearings:
10/07/2019 02:00 PM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

10/21/2019 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL -Continued DEERING, RANDY D

11/18/2019 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...y8U4E0516hkFrCB76qqZsD*HLirYh0LG4qi1l-W0LFBvA
 
Niner said:
We have a jury trial date for Newcomb!

Newcomb:

Docket:
10/18/2019 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: JURY TRIAL
Date: 11/18/2019 Time: 08:30 AM

Hearings:
10/07/2019 02:00 PM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

10/21/2019 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL -Continued DEERING, RANDY D

11/18/2019 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...y8U4E0516hkFrCB76qqZsD*HLirYh0LG4qi1l-W0LFBvA
Click to expand...
What is the maximum amount of jail/prison time she could face if found guilty? Tysm
 
Sleuthinsleuther said:
What is the maximum amount of jail/prison time she could face if found guilty? Tysm
Click to expand...

... My 2 Cents ...
They really threw the book at her! Taking 2 things she allegedly did (lying under oath & forgery) and turning them into 5 felony counts. Vicious. They must think she knew something involving the murders and was really trying hard to cover up her family's involvement. Prosecutors do not have to bring all these charges, it's at their desecration. (fair? or not fair?)
Obstructing justice can be charged as either a misdemeanor or a felony in Ohio. FOR RITA THEY ARE TAKING IT TO 3 FELONY COUNTS.

STATE OF OHIO -vs- NEWCOMB, RITA JO

(1) - FORGERY (Felony 5th Degree)
(2) - FORGERY (Felony 5th Degree)
(3) - FORGERY (Felony 5th Degree)
(4) - OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE (Felony 5th Degree)
(5) - PERJURY (Felony 3rd Degree)

On its website, the state of Ohio defines the prison term that can be assigned for fifth degree felonies as ranging from six months to a year. Every case is different and the court system in any given state has considerable latitude in prosecuting and punishing felonies.

Typically in Ohio, fifth degree felonies are punishable by a definite prison term of six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, or 12 months; a fine of up to $2,500; or both. Breaking and entering and forgery are examples of fifth degree felonies. (Ohio Rev. Code Ann. §§ 2929.14, 2929.18 (2019).)

Forgery Laws in Ohio

The possible sentences for forgery crimes in Ohio are as follows:
Felony of the f: six to twelve months in prison or a fine up to $2,500, or both.

What Is a Fifth-Degree Felony in Ohio?

What is the penalty for an obstruction of justice charge?
The range of situations wherein a person can face an obstruction of justice charge is wide. Therefore, so too are the penalties for an obstruction of justice conviction. A typical obstruction of justice penalty can be anywhere from a fine (misdemeanor), to 10 years in prison (felony).

What is a typical sentence for a first Perjury?
The most common penalty for perjury is a fine and/or jail, but the amount of the fine or jail time can depend on judicial discretion in sentencing. It’s possible for there to be a minimum sentence length as a penalty, perhaps one year, and a maximum length of sentencing at five to 10 years per charge.

Perjury Law | Justia

Ohio Felony Crimes by Class and Sentences
 
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Cool Cats said:
She was never charged for the Count 22 Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity. Evidently the Fraud and Obstruction of Justice charges were enough to get her name mentioned in the indictment but not enough to actually charge her.

Now if they found some of the Rhoden's stolen items on her property then that would tie her into theft and would be enough to indict her for the Pattern of Corrupt Activity Charge. They just don't have enough--yet.

What is Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity?
Someone who knowingly has received any proceeds derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of corrupt activity.

Columbus and Delaware, Ohio Engaging in Pattern of Corrupt Activity Attorney-Lawyer

Engaging in corrupt activity - Funkhouser Law

Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity in Ohio is typically paired with offenses such as theft, receiving stolen property, fraud and murder. For example, the allegation could be that a group of individuals conspired to commit theft as part of an ongoing criminal conspiracy.
  • Person employed by or associated with any enterprise,
  • Conducting or participating in the affairs of the enterprise,
  • Through a pattern of corrupt activity or the collection of an unlawful debt.
Click to expand...

Respectfully bolded by me for emphasis.

To clarify, RN was not charged with Conspiracy. We don't know yet which kind of corrupt activity the family was engaged in per the indictments. It could have been any kind of enterprise or activity. Evidence of that kind of activity could be in a variety of forms - emails, records of financial transactions, surreptitious audio or video recordings, witness testimony, grand jury testimony, etc.

But, the most obvious activity to which those charges might apply is murder. It could be something as simple as covering up for the 4W's after the murders. Giving false alibis, etc.

As for RN not being indicted for Count 22 - Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity, there are probably a couple of reasons.
  • She's the first person to go to trial. Trying her on that charge would mean the prosecution has to present their entire case for aggravated murder, etc. against the 4 Wagners.
  • That would reveal the prosecution's case too early and
  • would confuse jurors and also might unfairly malign RN, since she didn't actively participate in the murders.

The prosecution will make the case for Count 22 during the murder trials, as part of the big picture of how the 4 Wagners developed their plan, carried it out and covered it up. Even though they haven't charged RN or FW (who is also named) it's necessary to mention them in the indictment since they were apparently involved at some level.

JMO

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

Notes:
  • RN is not charged with Conspiracy, but is mentioned in Count 22 charges against the 4 Wagners - Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity
  • GWIII is charged with forgery related to the custody documents
  • Count 22 in all four W murder indictments carries weapons specifications, including one that says weapons were brandished and that automatic weapons were used - so I'm guessing the corrupt activity is the murder

I'm working on a special project, more to come.

ETA: The charges for pattern of corrupt activity specifically refer to the activitiy as that in Counts 1 through 21 - IOW the murders, cover up, aggravated burglary, etc. No reference to other crimes unrelated to the murders.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments
 
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Betty P said:
Respectfully bolded by me for emphasis.

To clarify, RN was not charged with Conspiracy. We don't know yet which kind of corrupt activity the family was engaged in per the indictments. It could have been any kind of enterprise or activity. Evidence of that kind of activity could be in a variety of forms - emails, records of financial transactions, surreptitious audio or video recordings, witness testimony, grand jury testimony, etc.

But, the most obvious activity to which those charges might apply is murder. It could be something as simple as covering up for the 4W's after the murders. Giving false alibis, etc.

As for RN not being indicted for Count 22 - Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity, there are probably a couple of reasons.
  • She's the first person to go to trial. Trying her on that charge would mean the prosecution has to present their entire case for aggravated murder, etc. against the 4 Wagners.
  • That would reveal the prosecution's case too early and
  • would confuse jurors and also might unfairly malign RN, since she didn't actively participate in the murders.

The prosecution will make the case for Count 22 during the murder trials, as part of the big picture of how the 4 Wagners developed their plan, carried it out and covered it up. Even though they haven't charged RN or FW (who is also named) it's necessary to mention them in the indictment since they were apparently involved at some level.

JMO

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

Notes:
  • RN is not charged with Conspiracy, but is mentioned in Count 22 charges against the 4 Wagners - Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity
  • GWIII is charged with forgery related to the custody documents
  • Count 22 in all four W murder indictments carries weapons specifications, including one that says weapons were brandished and that automatic weapons were used - so I'm guessing the corrupt activity is the murder

I'm working on a special project, more to come.
Click to expand...

Thanks Betty! thanks for your analysis! (and attention to detail) This is alot of "stuff" and I look forward to your take on it. Thanks to you and all of you, many of you, who keep this all relative/current as we patiently go forth. We all have been patient for 3 1\2 years so we can keep it up. Just-- we all hope and pray that at the end of this long twisty road, justice will be served for the Gilley -Rhoden and Manley families. Peace to ya'all....:)
 
TrueTracer said:
BCI supervisor tied to Pike Co. murder investigation suspended
Click to expand...

Reading through this, I'm not seeing anything that can affect the case. There's nothing in the allegations that refers to evidence or the investigation. There's talk about a hostile work environment and agents being stressed out. Sounds like there were some personality clashes, but nothing that has anything to do with the evidence or investigation, itself.

Sounds like the incidents occurred in the final days of the investigation. The fact that agents and their supervisor had personality clashes doesn't mean much WRT how the arrests and questioning of suspects or witnesses was done. Those are the only events that took place at the end of the investigation. The feds (ATF) handled all the lab work done on the silencer parts. The vast majority of the evidence had already been gathered by the time these agents got into their tiff.

If I were to hazard a guess, it sounds like there were internecine squabbles at BCI over who got to take credit for some of those final investigative activities. Will the defense attorneys try to make a big deal of it? Of course they will. It's what we Ohio taxpayers are paying them to do. Will it have an outcome on the convictions of the W4? Highly unlikely, JMO. There's so much evidence, so much motive.
 
Betty P said:
Reading through this, I'm not seeing anything that can affect the case. There's nothing in the allegations that refers to evidence or the investigation. There's talk about a hostile work environment and agents being stressed out. Sounds like there were some personality clashes, but nothing that has anything to do with the evidence or investigation, itself.

Sounds like the incidents occurred in the final days of the investigation. The fact that agents and their supervisor had personality clashes doesn't mean much WRT how the arrests and questioning of suspects or witnesses was done. Those are the only events that took place at the end of the investigation. The feds (ATF) handled all the lab work done on the silencer parts. The vast majority of the evidence had already been gathered by the time these agents got into their tiff.

If I were to hazard a guess, it sounds like there were internecine squabbles at BCI over who got to take credit for some of those final investigative activities. Will the defense attorneys try to make a big deal of it? Of course they will. It's what we Ohio taxpayers are paying them to do. Will it have an outcome on the convictions of the W4? Highly unlikely, JMO. There's so much evidence, so much motive.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree %100. The main agent on the case is Special Agent Ryan Schriber ( I don't know correct spelling and am way off) but he is the main special agent in charge of the Rhoden murder Case and is in Court almost all of the time sitting at the prosecution table.
My point being that this problem with this other investigator carries no weight.
So forget it.
 
Johnny B Bad said:
Hello Datocincy
I noticed that you said you have did a lot of research on the Rhodens murders, I would like to ask you a question about what is your take on the way Big Chris’s truck was parked behind Little Chris car and why wasn’t Little Chris’s car parked at Dana’s house because that is where his body was found, do you think that the killers drove Big Chris’s truck to Kenny home and that is the reason he let his guard down, he might have looked out and saw Chris Sr truck and didn’t get his gun to protect himself,

Chris Sr, GPS from his F150 is listed in Discovery?
Click to expand...

CRjr's car was being worked on. If you look at the pictures, you can see the left side is jacked up with a floor jack. That is why it was not at DR's house. We discussed this early on.
 
Johnny B Bad said:
Hello Datocincy
I noticed that you said you have did a lot of research on the Rhodens murders, I would like to ask you a question about what is your take on the way Big Chris’s truck was parked behind Little Chris car and why wasn’t Little Chris’s car parked at Dana’s house because that is where his body was found, do you think that the killers drove Big Chris’s truck to Kenny home and that is the reason he let his guard down, he might have looked out and saw Chris Sr truck and didn’t get his gun to protect himself,

Chris Sr, GPS from his F150 is listed in Discovery?
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the alleged discovery doc with info about GPS on Chris Srs truck? TIA
 
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