OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

[Cool Cats]

It's so good to see you, CC.

Thankx, I do not want to clutter up the thread as has been brought up on here. I will wait for stuff to happen. However, I do believe we can all use our own BRAINS and draw our own OPINIONS on the available information......

It's so good to see you, CC.

Good to see you too......Loomis....

 

[Sillybilly]

Please review The Rules.

Politics and general death penalty discussion is not allowed at WS. It's fine to say the DP is being sought in the case, or something directly related to the case, but discussing state politics, etc in relation to the DP is off limits.

 

[StrangeOne]

Please review The Rules.

Politics and general death penalty discussion is not allowed at WS. It's fine to say the DP is being sought in the case, or something directly related to the case, but discussing state politics, etc in relation to the DP is off limits.

Thank you for the reminder.

Does anyone know if it was stated who was included in the conversations when the Ws were overheard making threats against LE? And just who was participating? If this has been discussed before in a previous thread I did not see it and am just curious about it.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

Thank you for the reminder.

Does anyone know if it was stated who was included in the conversations when the Ws were overheard making threats against LE? And just who was participating? If this has been discussed before in a previous thread I did not see it and am just curious about it.

Canepa went on to say she wasn't suggesting Wagner would become a hitman, but alleged Wagner had gone against judge's orders not to discuss testimony before a grand jury earlier this year.

Wagner's attorney, James Owen, argued his client, a longtime Sunday school teacher, had no criminal record whatsoever and "has lived as close to the cross as anyone" and suggested she was "more innocent than anyone at the prosecution's table."
Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you for the reminder.

Does anyone know if it was stated who was included in the conversations when the Ws were overheard making threats against LE? And just who was participating? If this has been discussed before in a previous thread I did not see it and am just curious about it.

Canepa said specifically that Fred was present during those conversations, she did not say Fred participated in those conversations. She said there were multiple conversations.

With Fred being there and with multiple conversations I am sure Fred must have heard some of what they were saying.

Didn't she wonder why they wanted to hurt LE? Maybe they convinced her that LE was setting them up.

But in that case you hire good attorneys, not stalk and hurt LE and anyone else who you think is going against you. And who really thinks you can break anyone out of jail? Be interesting to hear how they planned to accomplish that.

Prison Break

 

[Johnny B Bad]

George and his brother Jake Wagner, along with their parents Billy and Angela Wagner, are charged in the Pike County massacre from 2016.


Wagner, 27, faces eight counts of capital murder, charges of tampering with evidence and carrying a dangerous ordnance in the murders. One of Wagner’s attorneys, Richard Nash, said Wagner does not have a prior criminal record or any traffic citations and should be given some type of bail.

“I think it needs to be said, your Honor, this was not a quick investigation. This investigation lasted over a year, it’s my understanding, even two, where Mr. Wagner was the focus of that investigation,” Nash said.

Nash added that Wagner always answered questions from investigators and they knew his whereabouts so he wouldn’t be a flight risk. But Asst. Attorney General Angela Canepa painted Wagner as a dangerous man who plotted revenge against Attorney General Mike DeWine, the lead BCI agent on the case and Sheriff Charles Reader if he and his family were charged in the murders. Canepa said the Wagners also planned their escape if one or more of them were caught and others remained free.

“There have been multiple conversations where those sorts of threats have been made,” Canepa said. “And I would say that specifically George Wagner was the most vocal in making those threats.”

Prosecutors allege the murders were planned over several months because Jake Wagner and his parents wanted custody of the daughter he shared with Hanna Rhoden. Jake petitioned the court for custody of the 2-year-old child nearly a week after the murders. Hanna Rhoden had given birth to another baby five days before the murders. That baby was asleep next to her when she was shot and killed in her bed.

According to the indictment, the Wagners bought special shoes from Walmart, a bug detector to find cameras and recording devices and brass catchers to place on guns to catch shell casings in preparation for the murders. They're also accused of hacking into social media accounts to monitor the Rhodens and surveil the property.

Judge Randy Deering ordered George Wagner held without bail

Wagner brother to answer to murder charges for Rhoden family massacre

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Canepa said specifically that Fred was present during those conversations, she did not say Fred participated in those conversations. She said there were multiple conversations.

With Fred being there and with multiple conversations I am sure Fred must have heard some of what they were saying.

Didn't she wonder why they wanted to hurt LE? Maybe they convinced her that LE was setting them up.

But in that case you hire good attorneys, not stalk and hurt LE and anyone else who you think is going against you. And who really thinks you can break anyone out of jail? Be interesting to hear how they planned to accomplish that.

A special prosecutor said during the hearing that a confidential informant told investigators that the four Wagners met at Fredericka Wagner's home and talked about what they would do if anyone was arrested.

The discussion included escaping and getting revenge against investigators, including the county sheriff and Attorney General Mike Dewine, the prosecutor said.

Fredericka Wagner's attorney did not directly respond to the prosecutor's statement.

DeWine has given scant detail about why eight members of the Rhoden family — seven adults and a teenage boy — were found shot in the head in April 2016, other than saying the custody of a young child played a role.

One of the suspects, Edward "Jake" Wagner, was the longtime former boyfriend of 19-year-old Hanna Rhoden, one of the victims, and shared custody of their daughter. Family members say the girl, now 4, is in state custody.
Prosecutor: Ohio suspects talked revenge vs. investigators | Fox News

 

[Puzzles8]

Thank you for the reminder.

Does anyone know if it was stated who was included in the conversations when the Ws were overheard making threats against LE? And just who was participating? If this has been discussed before in a previous thread I did not see it and am just curious about it.

It is at best a pretty vague reference. It has never been definitively established in any documents/MSM. Bottom line, none of us know the exact form of surveillance, what time period it occurred over or what person or device may or may not might have been involved in that (those?) covert conversations about planned revenge or escape.

All we can really assume is that "iv was the most vocal in his threats of revenge". IMO, I assume that means the W's did not think GWWiv would be arrested and therefore would be the person to plan and execute this revenge and abet the escapes.

IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Gosh, ghost town lately. There is plenty to discuss or there will be soon IMO. I took a break from this case but have been posting on the Evelyn Boswell thread, poor baby. Waving hi to ya'll.

 

[Loomis124]

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.




Canepa went on to say she wasn't suggesting Wagner would become a hitman, but alleged Wagner had gone against judge's orders not to discuss testimony before a grand jury earlier this year.

Wagner's attorney, James Owen, argued his client, a longtime Sunday school teacher, had no criminal record whatsoever and "has lived as close to the cross as anyone" and suggested she was "more innocent than anyone at the prosecution's table."
Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge

Welcome back, Johnny!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Hi Loomis

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Does anyone know if the Wagner trials are closed to the general public, I would like to go to a few of them?

 

[Cool Cats]

It is at best a pretty vague reference. It has never been definitively established in any documents/MSM. Bottom line, none of us know the exact form of surveillance, what time period it occurred over or what person or device may or may not might have been involved in that (those?) covert conversations about planned revenge or escape.

All we can really assume is that "iv was the most vocal in his threats of revenge". IMO, I assume that means the W's did not think GWWiv would be arrested and therefore would be the person to plan and execute this revenge and abet the escapes.

IMO, MOO, etc.

I think now would be a good time to transcribe what Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa said in court about the
Wagner conversations.
I transcribed it the best I can, as I am not a transcriptionist.

Frederick Wagner's arraignment
November 15th, 2018

Canepa:
We have information from a confidential reliable resource--ahh--source that there was a collection of individuals out at Miss Wagner's home on one occasion, on at least one occasion I should say, in which she was present along with her now Capital Crime Defendant son Billy Wagner along with the other 3 co-defendants all charged with capital crimes, were present at the conversation surrounding if one or more of them got arrested what the others were to do as far as taking revenge on those persons who were not arrested.

And there were individuals that were named but they were to take revenge against anyone who went against them including but not limited to Special Agent Scheiderer, Sheriff Reader and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

There was also discussions of how they would try to make an escape so, again this conversation occurred in Fredicka's home with Miss Wagner present for those conversations.

Certainly I'm not necessarily suggesting that she would you know, become a hit man or anything of that nature but the State does have concerns about her participation in those conversations, potential coordinating of any of those sorts of efforts.

I would also note for the record your honor that she was previously ordered by specially appointed Judge for Grand Jury not to discuss her testimony that occurred in Grand Jury with any persons outside of the Grand Jury. And we again have information that she did in fact discuss that at length with other individuals again to include the now indicted Capital Crime Defendants which is her son and her son's family.

George Wagner IV's arraignment
November 28th, 2018

Canepa:
Additionally your honor previously indicated at Miss Fredericka Wagner's arraignment we did provide the court information that we have through confidential reliable source that there was discussions amongst these 4 co-defendants specifically Jacob, George, Billy and Angela that if one or more of them were arrested and one of them remained at large that person should take revenge on anybody who went against them and they specifically also named Special Agent Scheiderer, Sheriff Reader and Mike DeWine.

And or help the other individuals escape and I would note that is not the only conversation, I only brought up that conversation as it pertained to Miss Wagner. But there have been multiple conversations where those sorts of threats have been made and I would say that specifically George Wagner is probably the most vocal in making those threats.

These 2 Arraignments can be found in the Timeline (page 17) here:

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

 

[Cool Cats]

WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON
02/06/2020 JOURNAL ENTRY --

Counsel for each of the parties confirmed to the Court that counsel for the State of Ohio intends to inform counsel for the Defendant concerning certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon; and counsel for each party further confirmed to the Court that they have made arrangements to have a meeting between counsel, outside the presence of the Court, at the offices of BCI in order for counsel for each party to thoroughly review the items of discovery provided by that the State of Ohio.

WAGNER, ANGELA JO
02/27/2020 JOURNAL ENTRY --

WAGNER, EDWARD JACOB
02/28/2020 JOURNAL ENTRY --

WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON
02/25/2020 JOURNAL ENTRY --

Angela's, Jake's & Billy's Journal Entries both say generally the same thing about this:

The parties indicated to the Court at the pre-trial this day that they have scheduled a meeting of counsel for State of Ohio and counsel for the Defendant to take place on March 13, 2020, at the offices of the Ohio BCI&I in order for counsel to peruse the items of discovery and for counsel for the State of Ohio to provide some assistance to the Defendant's attorneys in organizing the items of discovery provided.

It is the Court's understanding that the State of Ohio intends to have completed the provision of discovery to the Defendant by the time of the meeting on March 13, 2020.

 

[Dudly]

I think now would be a good time to transcribe what Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa said in court about the
Wagner conversations.
I transcribed it the best I can, as I am not a transcriptionist.

Frederick Wagner's arraignment
November 15th, 2018

Canepa:
We have information from a confidential reliable resource--ahh--source that there was a collection of individuals out at Miss Wagner's home on one occasion, on at least one occasion I should say, in which she was present along with her now Capital Crime Defendant son Billy Wagner along with the other 3 co-defendants all charged with capital crimes, were present at the conversation surrounding if one or more of them got arrested what the others were to do as far as taking revenge on those persons who were not arrested.

And there were individuals that were named but they were to take revenge against anyone who went against them including but not limited to Special Agent Scheiderer, Sheriff Reader and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

There was also discussions of how they would try to make an escape so, again this conversation occurred in Fredicka's home with Miss Wagner present for those conversations.

Certainly I'm not necessarily suggesting that she would you know, become a hit man or anything of that nature but the State does have concerns about her participation in those conversations, potential coordinating of any of those sorts of efforts.

I would also note for the record your honor that she was previously ordered by specially appointed Judge for Grand Jury not to discuss her testimony that occurred in Grand Jury with any persons outside of the Grand Jury. And we again have information that she did in fact discuss that at length with other individuals again to include the now indicted Capital Crime Defendants which is her son and her son's family.

George Wagner IV's arraignment
November 28th, 2018

Canepa:
Additionally your honor previously indicated at Miss Fredericka Wagner's arraignment we did provide the court information that we have through confidential reliable source that there was discussions amongst these 4 co-defendants specifically Jacob, George, Billy and Angela that if one or more of them were arrested and one of them remained at large that person should take revenge on anybody who went against them and they specifically also named Special Agent Scheiderer, Sheriff Reader and Mike DeWine.

And or help the other individuals escape and I would note that is not the only conversation, I only brought up that conversation as it pertained to Miss Wagner. But there have been multiple conversations where those sorts of threats have been made and I would say that specifically George Wagner is probably the most vocal in making those threats.

These 2 Arraignments can be found in the Timeline (page 17) here:

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

confidential reliable resource-confidential reliable resource-confidential reliable resource-
Why does this keep getting changed when it is referred to in a post? It does NOT say informant, it does not say it was a bug placed by LE. Why not call it what it was called? confidential reliable resource- No one knows what AC meant by that statement. There is no need to assume what she meant. Take it for what it is for now and hope we find out what she was referring to as confidential reliable resource-

 

[Cool Cats]

confidential reliable resource-confidential reliable resource-confidential reliable resource-
Why does this keep getting changed when it is referred to in a post? It does NOT say informant, it does not say it was a bug placed by LE. Why not call it what it was called? confidential reliable resource- No one knows what AC meant by that statement. There is no need to assume what she meant. Take it for what it is for now and hope we find out what she was referring to as confidential reliable resource-

Right, it's easy to assume. Like I assume it is recordings made by an informant or recordings done through BCI surveillance because the prosecution is sharing recorded conversations with GW4's attorneys as part of the discovery evidence against him. More specifically:

"certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon"

But you are right, Canepa said resource and then changed it to source which could be any type of source.

Alot is happening behind the scenes this Friday, but it won't be until the 3 April hearings that we, maybe, hear some real movement in these super slow as snails...

...capital murder cases.
GW4 has yet to get his next court date still
....Yawn....Zzz

 

[Dudly]

Right, it's easy to assume. Like I assume it is recordings made by an informant or recordings done through BCI surveillance because the prosecution is sharing recorded conversations with GW4's attorneys as part of the discovery evidence against him. More specifically:

"certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon"

But you are right, Canepa said resource and then changed it to source which could be any type of source.

Alot is happening behind the scenes this Friday, but it won't be until the 3 April hearings that we, maybe, hear some real movement in these super slow as snails...

...capital murder cases.
GW4 has yet to get his next court date still
....Yawn....Zzz

After the planned meeting, the Defense Attorneys will have a clearer picture what they are up against. After they talk to the defendants, who knows what may happen. I do think it may be an eyeopener for the Ws.

 

[Cool Cats]

After the planned meeting, the Defense Attorneys will have a clearer picture what they are up against. After they talk to the defendants, who knows what may happen. I do think it may be an eyeopener for the Ws.

I wonder if what the defense attorneys find out from the recorded conversations, if it will have some type of influence on GW4 finally getting a new pre-trial hearing date.

The last hearing date for him is from January 21st and in just one more week it will be 2 months since GW4 has had a new hearing scheduled.

His attorneys will show him the transcripts and have him listen to the conversations then figure out how to defend him - against his own words - if he unknowingly incriminated himself.

Another thing I want to find out is if Deering will grant Jake's Motion to throw out the shell casing evidence.

According to a news reporter, reporting from the Pike County Courthouse, shell casings from Chris SR's and the Wagner property are in evidence.
Defense says they have no guns to go with the casings.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I wonder if what the defense attorneys find out from the recorded conversations, if it will have some type of influence on GW4 finally getting a new pre-trial hearing date.

The last hearing date for him is from January 21st and in just one more week it will be 2 months since GW4 has had a new hearing scheduled.

His attorneys will show him the transcripts and have him listen to the conversations then figure out how to defend him - against his own words - if he unknowingly incriminated himself.

Another thing I want to find out is if Deering will grant Jake's Motion to throw out the shell casing evidence.

According to a news reporter, reporting from the Pike County Courthouse, shell casings from Chris SR's and the Wagner property are in evidence.
Defense says they have no guns to go with the casings.

CC
Didn't LE find casings at the Wagners old farm? Also the forensic evidence of the bullet marking coming out of the barrel of a gun matches what was recovered from the bodies, there is no way Judge Deering will throw it out, JMO

 

[Fight4justice]

It is at best a pretty vague reference. It has never been definitively established in any documents/MSM. Bottom line, none of us know the exact form of surveillance, what time period it occurred over or what person or device may or may not might have been involved in that (those?) covert conversations about planned revenge or escape.

All we can really assume is that "iv was the most vocal in his threats of revenge". IMO, I assume that means the W's did not think GWWiv would be arrested and therefore would be the person to plan and execute this revenge and abet the escapes.

IMO, MOO, etc.

One thing that has puzzled me is, who kept the babies during the crime? We know that JW had S that night as well as GW had his son, so either someone else is involved that watched the babies that night or one of the four actually wasn’t there and was babysitting, or they took the babies with them or they left the babies home alone, a nightmare all the way around. My heart goes out to the Rhoden and Gilley families, May they receive the Justice they deserve, all just my opinion only.