OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[molly1255]

Cris Sr finance the new house he bought for Dana it cost $50,000 he paid $30,000 down , a bank will not finance a loan without proof of where the other $30,00 came from remember FDIC that means it is insured by federal funded and anything over $9,999 dollars has to have proof where it came from or of being earned, do to drug deal money.
If you Sluthers remember when we talked about the different company’s that Chris Sr has had and even one that deal with medical equipment that we know nothing about, so the new marijuana law was about to pass in Ohio, maybe he thought he could get in on the ground floor of a despiser and maybe someone invested in on the deal, only time will tell?????

One thing I've considered. Around that time, the Department of Health and Human Services was awarding some very, very big dollars to many different entities that were tied in any way to the medical industry. This was because of the Affordable Care Act. Billions of dollars flew out the door and it was to supposed to promote better healthcare, in general. A lot of people were aware of that and were creating entities. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

I honestly do not think anyone is implying anything against the Rhoden family. It is possible that CRsr had 30k in a savings account with the bank and it would still be considered a cash down payment. I believe the purchase of DR's home is relevant to the case because it protected HR from JW and his threats to take SW from her.

A narrative has already been promoted in the news media that CR1 and Billy Wagner were "good buddies" and because of that, the Wagners never could have killed the Rhodens. We know from evidence that's not an accurate assessment of their relationship and, JMO, I don't see any benefit in helping the defense sell this argument. Even worse to falsely impugn a dead man's reputation by accusing him of stealing money from the family who murdered his. Unless someone has proof of these allegations, they probably shouldn't be mentioned here. WS is a victim-friendly forum.

 

[Betty P]

One thing I've considered. Around that time, the Department of Health and Human Services was awarding some very, very big dollars to many different entities that were tied in any way to the medical industry. This was because of the Affordable Care Act. Billions of dollars flew out the door and it was to supposed to promote better healthcare, in general. A lot of people were aware of that and were creating entities. JMO.

The problem with that false allegation is that, when the estates were probated after the victims' murders, there was no money or evidence of any illegal activity related to the finances of the victims.

If someone has a link showing evidence, please do provide it. TIA

 

[Berrybell]

A narrative has already been promoted in the news media that CR1 and Billy Wagner were "good buddies" and because of that, the Wagners never could have killed the Rhodens. We know from evidence that's not an accurate assessment of their relationship and, JMO, I don't see any benefit in helping the defense sell this argument. Even worse to falsely impugn a dead man's reputation by accusing him of stealing money from the family who murdered his. Unless someone has proof of these allegations, they probably shouldn't be mentioned here. WS is a victim-friendly forum.

Betty, I am sorry I am not understanding your statement. I clearly stated that I didn't think anyone is bashing the Rhodens and no where did I condone or help the defense, would you mind clarifying why you think my post bashes the Rhodens, impugns CRsr reputation or accuses him of stealing money? TIA. If and when I break the rules I prefer clarification so I do not make the same mistake again.

 

[Betty P]

Agree, and we are going to have to wait until trial to learn more. What we do know is it wasn't just a rumor - there was a big fight between CR Sr. and BW not long before the murders. I think a lot of things were happening at the time and we know about the new home, the confirmed Dad fight, on-going surveillance of the R's by the W's, and the custody documents. In a July 2016, JW talked about his big legal expenses to get custody of SW, and he was doing a fundraiser. I can't imagine actually getting custody of SW after the murders cost him much, if anything. JMO, I think there may have been legal expenses before the murders, and he was trying to come up with a reason or reasons for the court to award custody to him and that did not fly. I think JW's prior acts are pertinent to the case. JMO, there would be no need for discussion of this in the hearings if there weren't any prior acts, and if things were just "fine", which is the narrative that was being promoted by JW and AW.

I've also seen no proof of this "good friend" relationship between CR Sr. and BW, or that they had any kind of business partnership. I think it is entirely possible the only thing they had in common was a shared grandchild and that was contentious. It seems to me that CR Sr. had drive. He possessed multiple skills that allowed him to make a living, and he was not afraid of hard work. I've asked myself the question of why would he need to partner up with BW in business? It appears BW did some work for his wealthy mother. He had a criminal record and a prior bankruptcy and was on food stamps in the early 2000's, and it doesn't appear his mother forked over any big bucks when all of that was going on. I'm just not seeing the same kind of drive or income producing ability between the two men that would result in CR Sr. wanting to partner-up in a business arrangement.

All JMO.

Leonard Manley alleged the altercation occurred when the Wagners were trying to make Hanna sign custody documents.

Billy Wagner to answer to charges for Rhoden, Gilley murders in Pike County

Rita Newcomb forged custody documents shortly before the murders, too.

 

[Betty P]

Betty, I am sorry I am not understanding your statement. I clearly stated that I didn't think anyone is bashing the Rhodens and no where did I condone or help the defense, would you mind clarifying why you think my post bashes the Rhodens, impugns CRsr reputation or accuses him of stealing money? TIA. If and when I break the rules I prefer clarification so I do not make the same mistake again.

My concern is not with the wording in the discussions, but the repetitive nature. I'm not making an accusation against you, I'm just concerned about what happens when this kind of speculation and the questionable theories that put the victims in a bad light are repeated page after page here in the thread in the months leading up to the trials. YKWIM? It's easy to get caught up in it.

 

[molly1255]

The problem with that false allegation is that, when the estates were probated after the victims' murders, there was no money or evidence of any illegal activity related to the finances of the victims.

If someone has a link showing evidence, please do provide it. TIA

I should have probably gone into more detail in my post to explain why this is something that "I" considered as a possibility. There was a medical-related entity and this was discussed on this forum a long time ago. This would NOT have involved illegal activity. When the Affordable Care Act went into law, the push behind the ACA was for better delivery of healthcare in this country. There were existing entities and a lot of new entities who had a medical product or a service that was intended to provide a better or more efficient, and sometimes less expensive delivery of healthcare that provided an improved outcome.

Those entities needed funding to move forward. DHSS took many applications, and those applications included all kinds of medical services, products and devices. Applications were reviewed and if DHSS believed this product or service would be of benefit, the entity was vetted by DHHS, and awards were granted if an entity was approved so those entities could move forward to further develop their product or service and get them to implementation.

I followed this closely as it was occurring when the ACA first went into law years ago, because it was part of my profession to do so. I have no idea if this is a possibility for that entity, or if an application was ever made or approved, or anything. But it is something I did consider as a possibility and I'm not making any kind of false allegation of illegal activity.

I don't even think there was even a grow-up. I've seen no evidence of that. My viewpoint is so reverse of illegal activity that I believe that DeWine made that grow op statement in an attempt to throw off the killers to get them to start talking. I'm not sure that many agree with me on this, but I do lean strongly in this direction. It may have worked because Reader stated "all the lies they told". And the W's started talking and telling lies, and we saw some of those lies in the July 2016 interview given by JW and his mother had to issue a "correction".

All JMO

 

[molly1255]

Leonard Manley alleged the altercation occurred when the Wagners were trying to make Hanna sign custody documents.

Billy Wagner to answer to charges for Rhoden, Gilley murders in Pike County

Rita Newcomb forged custody documents shortly before the murders, too.

I do know all of these things and I also remember LM's interview right after the murders when he said "there was a child custody issue". I've watched that interview many times since, and LM was absolutely 100% correct.

 

[molly1255]

I honestly do not think anyone is implying anything against the Rhoden family. It is possible that CRsr had 30k in a savings account with the bank and it would still be considered a cash down payment. I believe the purchase of DR's home is relevant to the case because it protected HR from JW and his threats to take SW from her.

I also think, especially given the apparent timing of everything, that the purchase of DR's home may be relevant in terms of protecting HR from JW. It may have eliminated any argument that JW may have been trying to make to get custody. I'll go further than what you stated. I think the W's had Plan #1 and Plan #2 in terms of getting custody, and were preparing for both scenarios. JMO, that new home may have taken Plan #1 off the table, IMO.

All JMO.

 

[Berrybell]

I also think, especially given the apparent timing of everything, that the purchase of DR's home may be relevant in terms of protecting HR from JW. It may have eliminated any argument that JW may have been trying to make to get custody. I'll go further than what you stated. I think the W's had Plan #1 and Plan #2 in terms of getting custody, and were preparing for both scenarios. JMO, that new home may have taken Plan #1 off the table, IMO.

All JMO.

I would not be surprised if you are right and I had not considered that the Ws may have had alternate plans to gain custody.

 

[molly1255]

My point on the acquisition of the money for Dana's place is: Possibly the money was borrowed from his "business partner" for some business reason. Maybe co-signed or vouched for. The money was used then for Dana (and Hannah) to get a new place to live. Thus negating an argument that Hanna was bringing he child up while living in substandard conditions. Maybe his business partner was very unhappy the money was used in that way.
Very unhappy.
The lender and business partner complained to Chris Sr and demanded the money back.
Chris Sr said no. Then the fight. Could you imagine anything that would infuriate a rich powerful family more than having your own money used against you in this way.

I never intended for that question of mine would infer any kind of wrongdoing on the Rhoden end.
If there was wrongdoing on the loan, The W's would have certainly pointed it out. They didn't.

This is just my opinion on the nagging question of "Why the two fights between two longtime friends"?
There was no fight when Jake got Hanna pregnant at 14. There was no fight when Hanna started seeing other guys. There was no fight when one of them got Hanna pregnant.
Besting some people in a business deal and the rubbing their nose in it can be a powerful revenge motive.

IMO, as always.

DeWine stated the motive was the control of children after the arrests were made.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I am looking for reasons to find them innocent but can't find any.

The murders happened just a few days after HR gets home from the hospital which glaringly makes it look like they were lying in wait for her, that the motive is about getting her out of the way for custody.

The murders happened right after demands were made for HR to sign over custody, after arguments with her family, and after violent acts.

The murders happened after custody documents were forged that blatantly highlight HR's death.

The murders happened after 519 custody messages were typed on at least one Wagner computer, leaving a digital trail.

Matching casings were found.
At least one bloody shoeprint was found.
A shoe receipt was found.
Angela is captured on surveillance video shopping for the shoes.
The Wagner's bought ammunition and supplies for brass catchers and silencers.
A silencer (maglite) was found in their well.

If guilty, which seems more and more apparent, then these people must be the most narcissistic and arrogant criminals that Ohio LE has ever had to deal with. Mentally ill with delusions of grandeur possessing the most bizarre thought processes known to man. Completely impossible for normal people to figure out or make sense of......2 Cents......

Or, not mentally ill. Perhaps, completely sane with psychopathy, or at least extreme narcissism. But I'm leaving toward psychopathy. IMOO

 

[molly1255]

I would not be surprised if you are right and I had not considered that the Ws may have had alternate plans to gain custody.

This is something we will hopefully learn at trial, but I strongly suspect there were attempts to get custody of SW before the murders. JW did a media interview on July 30, 2016 and it was rather interesting from many perspectives but in it, he mentioned doing a fundraiser. He was seeking $20,000 to help pay for legal expenses he incurred to get custody of SW after the murders, but he admitted to the reporter that he didn't spend $20,000 on legal. The paperwork he used to get custody of SW after the murders was discussed on this forum and my own impression in looking at it was it didn't appear to be the work of an attorney. JMO, I don't think it cost him much, if anything, to get custody after the murders.

Before the murders, maybe, IMO, there may have been some legal expenses in terms of exploring ways he could get legal custody? DeWine has said the motive was about control and custody of children. Maybe, IMO, the reason or reasons for getting custody of SW fell apart before the murders? We don't know if or how those forged custody documents were used. They were not used after the murders, based on the paperwork JW and his mother completed after the murders and those forged custody documents appear to be an important part of this case.

All JMO.

 

[molly1255]

Or, not mentally ill. Perhaps, completely sane with psychopathy, or at least extreme narcissism. But I'm leaving toward psychopathy. IMOO

I think so, too. A person or persons who have a mental illness would not be able to plan and carry out something like this. It kind of reminds me of the Manson family. And in that case drugs were being taken. If Susan Adkins had not told bragged to her cellmates about it, LE may not have ever solved it, or it would have taken much longer, because it was so unbelievably convoluted.

 

[Betty P]

I would not be surprised if you are right and I had not considered that the Ws may have had alternate plans to gain custody.

Recall the indictments stated the planning of the murders began in January 2016.

 

[Loomis124]

My concern is not with the wording in the discussions, but the repetitive nature. I'm not making an accusation against you, I'm just concerned about what happens when this kind of speculation and the questionable theories that put the victims in a bad light are repeated page after page here in the thread in the months leading up to the trials. YKWIM? It's easy to get caught up in it.

I totally agree with you, Betty.

 

[Myland]

Jmo but I think we all will be shocked at trial with the actual evidence not just what the state say they have and what the defense say they don’t have. Jmo

 

[Fight4justice]

Agree, and we are going to have to wait until trial to learn more. What we do know is it wasn't just a rumor - there was a big fight between CR Sr. and BW not long before the murders. I think a lot of things were happening at the time and we know about the new home, the confirmed Dad fight, on-going surveillance of the R's by the W's, and the custody documents. In a July 2016, JW talked about his big legal expenses to get custody of SW, and he was doing a fundraiser. I can't imagine actually getting custody of SW after the murders cost him much, if anything. JMO, I think there may have been legal expenses before the murders, and he was trying to come up with a reason or reasons for the court to award custody to him and that did not fly. I think JW's prior acts are pertinent to the case. JMO, there would be no need for discussion of this in the hearings if there weren't any prior acts, and if things were just "fine", which is the narrative that was being promoted by JW and AW.

I've also seen no proof of this "good friend" relationship between CR Sr. and BW, or that they had any kind of business partnership. I think it is entirely possible the only thing they had in common was a shared grandchild and that was contentious. It seems to me that CR Sr. had drive. He possessed multiple skills that allowed him to make a living, and he was not afraid of hard work. I've asked myself the question of why would he need to partner up with BW in business? It appears BW did some work for his wealthy mother. He had a criminal record and a prior bankruptcy and was on food stamps in the early 2000's, and it doesn't appear his mother forked over any big bucks when all of that was going on. I'm just not seeing the same kind of drive or income producing ability between the two men that would result in CR Sr. wanting to partner-up in a business arrangement.

All JMO.

 

[Fight4justice]

I agree, seems to me he would have more likely been business partners with AW before BW. She did start of couple of businesses, a dog business I think, I have never heard of anything BW started, just worked for his mommy. I also have not seen solid proof of a friendship.I believe JW was “tolerated” by the R’s for HR’s sake and later SW’s. I believe he knew he was an outsider and this also infuriated him. The only common bond they shared with the W’s was a granddaughter. All just my opinion.

 

[NotHammerToed]

Billy has consistently shown that he’s co-dependent. He hides behind his stature but inside he’s a submissive clinger. It seems to have originated with his mother, whom I bet still has a big influence on his mental state.

He reminds me of the fictional character Thomas Hewitt in that both seem to be mentally off, and depend on their messed up family. Both murderers.