OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

[Puzzles8]

It is also in the indictments for the 4 W's - charges 19 and 20 for each. It states this occurred from July 1, 2014 through May 9, 2017. I'm sure it has been discussed and I missed it, but they were intercepting/monitoring electronic information for over a year after the murders, it appears. I wonder who they were monitoring after the murders.

I also find the date that the monitoring ended interesting. Tuesday, 5/9/2017 was just a couple of days before the big raids the very next weekend.

Wow it even sounds like it might be the same day JW (& co) moved their trucks and trailers over to the 41 property to try to hide them......

I know the very last thing I do before I move is to dismantle my electronics

 

[Betty P]

Thanks so much for providing this timeline - good to see the chain of events as they unfolded. A big question in my mind is exactly when did LE first begin to suspect the W's? We know in JW's media interview in late July 2016, he said "reckon we missed it by hours" and his mother issued a correction which would have put SW in the W's possession for quite some period of time. I highly doubt that this "correction" was missed LE. I also don't think there is any way that HR would have allowed JW to have SW for such a long period of time, especially when he had recently tried to get her to sign custody documents. My thoughts are he came and snatched SW that night, which was a day early from what was agreed upon, and the murders happened a few hours later. I believe that LE was able to ferret out the actual date JW took possession of SW.

Interesting that not long after AW's audio interview Oct. 5, 2016, Reader came out and said he thought the killers were local. Perhaps AW is the one who isn't real smooth here. First, she made the correction to what JW stated, and then the jail house phone calls, knowing her calls were being recorded. This is what we know - there's more that we don't know. There may have been a real game of cat and mouse going on between the W's and LE for quite some time and this might explain some aspects of the investigation as well that were perplexing.

In July 2017, the W's attorney said LE no longer believes the Wags. No kidding! I think the Wags had figured that out and that's why they were in a hurry to get out of Dodge. DeWine announced the Wag's were laser focus in May 2017, I believe. Their properties were searched. Their pictures were put out in the media, and a request for specific info on the Wags was made. IMO, DeWine did everything except call them official suspects.

This is just my guess and pure speculation, but I don't think LE was following "clues" provided to them by the Wags. They were dealing with BCI and not the keystone cops. I could be very wrong, but my thoughts are LE was giving the Wags enough rope to hang themselves and were keeping track of all of their lies. I hope we learn just when the focus turned to the Wags and when LE began to collect evidence against them.

All JMO.

In spite of all we've learned since the arrests, I still don't think they suspected the Wags until shortly before they searched their farm. Until then, they had not tried to search the home of the ex boyfriend who was In a custody battle with the victim and her family.

In the first minutes and hours they unfortunately suspected the Manleys. Jmo, they were being fed false tips by the Wags. They chose to believe them for a long time because of their relative wealth and the power they wielded in the area. They had friends in high places so to speak.

JMO, it's possible there were other members of the team who suspected the Wags, but we're temporarily overruled.

 

[molly1255]

In spite of all we've learned since the arrests, I still don't think they suspected the Wags until shortly before they searched their farm. Until then, they had not tried to search the home of the ex boyfriend who was In a custody battle with the victim and her family.

In the first minutes and hours they unfortunately suspected the Manleys. Jmo, they were being fed false tips by the Wags. They chose to believe them for a long time because of their relative wealth and the power they wielded in the area. They had friends in high places so to speak.

JMO, it's possible there were other members of the team who suspected the Wags, but we're temporarily overruled.

I agree, LE was all over the Manley's, and for a long period of time. I know they had to rule everyone out, but there wasn't any gain for BJM and JM to cause them to commit mass homicide. In media interviews, LM stated very early on there was a child custody issue and soon after, he elaborated that the W's made an attempt to get HR to sign over custody in the weeks before the murder. My guess is that LM told LE the same exact thing.

Understand what you are saying about the relative wealth and power, but the way I see it, that belonged to FW. The circumstances in the early 2000's for AW and BW were not good and they included criminal acts. It's just hard for me to imagine that LE (especially the people with BCI, who weren't locals) would not view their "tips" with some degree of skepticism, especially considering the custody battle and the fact it was the Wags who gained. And the Wags very quickly gained by getting custody.

One thing I hope to learn from the trials is exactly what tipped LE in the direction of the Wags. I agree it is possible that other members of the team suspected the Wags but may have been temporarily overruled.

All JMO

ETA: I do think Reader suspected them. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Right, I have always assumed the tattoo is on his trigger finger but we really don't know if he is left handed or not. Watch to see if he signs anything in court. I tried to watch him sign in the Lexington extradition hearing but my view was blocked.

When BW was arrested in KY and LE were asking him if he had anything on him, he said he had that knife in his jean's. I think the cops went to his right side? Wouldn't you keep a utility type knife on your dominant hand side?

 

[Dudly]

When BW was arrested in KY and LE were asking him if he had anything on him, he said he had that knife in his jean's. I think the cops went to his right side? Wouldn't you keep a utility type knife on your dominant hand side?

I was watching some hearings. JW appears to be left handed. He opened the door with his left hand, had left hand on top when he rose and crossed his arms when the judge entered..

 

[sunshineray]

I agree, LE was all over the Manley's, and for a long period of time. I know they had to rule everyone out, but there wasn't any gain for BJM and JM to cause them to commit mass homicide. In media interviews, LM stated very early on there was a child custody issue and soon after, he elaborated that the W's made an attempt to get HR to sign over custody in the weeks before the murder. My guess is that LM told LE the same exact thing.

Understand what you are saying about the relative wealth and power, but the way I see it, that belonged to FW. The circumstances in the early 2000's for AW and BW were not good and they included criminal acts. It's just hard for me to imagine that LE (especially the people with BCI, who weren't locals) would not view their "tips" with some degree of skepticism, especially considering the custody battle and the fact it was the Wags who gained. And the Wags very quickly gained by getting custody.

One thing I hope to learn from the trials is exactly what tipped LE in the direction of the Wags. I agree it is possible that other members of the team suspected the Wags but may have been temporarily overruled.

All JMO

ETA: I do think Reader suspected them. JMO

Could have been AW herself being interviewed and saying how close everyone was. Oh my husband and CRSR were as close as brothers. If there was a confrontation between the two at BBL, CRSR's brother TR would of known all about it, a front row seat...and to all the texts/calls/visits BW made.

Then if AW told LE investigators about how well HW and HR got along, there were numerous others telling them JR was being awful to HR, mentally and physically.

Then AW probably said how HR was just like a daughter to her yet people like FW4's ex sister-in-law were telling LE there was bad blood because HR dumped her son for someone else.

AW most likely, like in that article overseen by the W's lawyer, couldn't stop telling LE how everything was so hunky dory between the families when all LE was hearing from others was the opposite. AJMO

 

[Betty P]

Could have been AW herself being interviewed and saying how close everyone was. Oh my husband and CRSR were as close as brothers. If there was a confrontation between the two at BBL, CRSR's brother TR would of known all about it, a front row seat...and to all the texts/calls/visits BW made.

Then if AW told LE investigators about how well HW and HR got along, there were numerous others telling them JR was being awful to HR, mentally and physically.

Then AW probably said how HR was just like a daughter to her yet people like FW4's ex sister-in-law were telling LE there was bad blood because HR dumped her son for someone else.

AW most likely, like in that article overseen by the W's lawyer, couldn't stop telling LE how everything was so hunky dory between the families when all LE was hearing from others was the opposite. AJMO

I think AW and JW were doing more than that. They were probably also flooding LE with "tips" - wild claims about CR1 and the others dealing drugs and working with drug cartels; they probably pointed fingers to a lot of other people in the area and accused them of working with CR1, KR, GR, etc. in a drug ring. By drug ring, I'm guessing the Wagners were (falsely) alleging much more than MJ in the grow ops. They probably gave LE that false information as the reason why JW was seeking custody of their daughter. We can assume this because the same terrible lies were being spread here at WS, on Facebook and elsewhere. Remember all the wild rumors about drug cartels, dog fighting criminal gangs, demolition derby thugs, etc.

LE might have held off treating the W's as suspects because they were getting a lot of what they thought were valuable tips about the killers. Perhaps, when those tips kept leading to dead ends, they decided it was time to look at the W's.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

When BW was arrested in KY and LE were asking him if he had anything on him, he said he had that knife in his jean's. I think the cops went to his right side? Wouldn't you keep a utility type knife on your dominant hand side?

Good catch! I just looked at Billy's arrest video and he says he has a leatherman's tool on his right. Makes perfect sense to be taking it in and out of your pocket to use it with your dominate hand. So there's a clue.

Leatherman Multi-Tools, Pocket Tools

 

[sunshineray]

I think AW and JW were doing more than that. They were probably also flooding LE with "tips" - wild claims about CR1 and the others dealing drugs and working with drug cartels; they probably pointed fingers to a lot of other people in the area and accused them of working with CR1, KR, GR, etc. in a drug ring. By drug ring, I'm guessing the Wagners were (falsely) alleging much more than MJ in the grow ops. They probably gave LE that false information as the reason why JW was seeking custody of their daughter. We can assume this because the same terrible lies were being spread here at WS, on Facebook and elsewhere. Remember all the wild rumors about drug cartels, dog fighting criminal gangs, demolition derby thugs, etc.

LE might have held off treating the W's as suspects because they were getting a lot of what they thought were valuable tips about the killers. Perhaps, when those tips kept leading to dead ends, they decided it was time to look at the W's.

JMO

I agree with that but it probably came afterwards in my mind. Why even mention the MJ until you're being doubted. In trying to think like a killer, I wouldn't let on I knew about the grows unless I had to because I needed to throw dirt on someone to get the heat off me. It's hard to think like a killer though so I don't know...JMO.

 

[Antimony]

I agree, LE was all over the Manley's, and for a long period of time. I know they had to rule everyone out, but there wasn't any gain for BJM and JM to cause them to commit mass homicide. In media interviews, LM stated very early on there was a child custody issue and soon after, he elaborated that the W's made an attempt to get HR to sign over custody in the weeks before the murder. My guess is that LM told LE the same exact thing.

Understand what you are saying about the relative wealth and power, but the way I see it, that belonged to FW. The circumstances in the early 2000's for AW and BW were not good and they included criminal acts. It's just hard for me to imagine that LE (especially the people with BCI, who weren't locals) would not view their "tips" with some degree of skepticism, especially considering the custody battle and the fact it was the Wags who gained. And the Wags very quickly gained by getting custody.

One thing I hope to learn from the trials is exactly what tipped LE in the direction of the Wags. I agree it is possible that other members of the team suspected the Wags but may have been temporarily overruled.

All JMO

ETA: I do think Reader suspected them. JMO

The Wagner supplied "Tips" might have been delivered to LE via a Wagner "surrogate" to attempt to make the Tip more believable. The Wagner's had influence via business, religion, family and longevity in that region. And please don't tell anybody where you heard this, but..............

 

[molly1255]

Could have been AW herself being interviewed and saying how close everyone was. Oh my husband and CRSR were as close as brothers. If there was a confrontation between the two at BBL, CRSR's brother TR would of known all about it, a front row seat...and to all the texts/calls/visits BW made.

Then if AW told LE investigators about how well HW and HR got along, there were numerous others telling them JR was being awful to HR, mentally and physically.

Then AW probably said how HR was just like a daughter to her yet people like FW4's ex sister-in-law were telling LE there was bad blood because HR dumped her son for someone else.

AW most likely, like in that article overseen by the W's lawyer, couldn't stop telling LE how everything was so hunky dory between the families when all LE was hearing from others was the opposite. AJMO

Agree. Surviving family members were interviewed and LE interviewed hundreds of others. The problems between the families may not have been known by some people, but I would imagine others knew about the problems and stated what they knew. JMO

 

[molly1255]

The Wagner supplied "Tips" might have been delivered to LE via a Wagner "surrogate" to attempt to make the Tip more believable. The Wagner's had influence via business, religion, family and longevity in that region. And please don't tell anybody where you heard this, but..............

Good point - that may have happened. I also think tips were coming directly from the W's as well because of what their attorney said and also because of Reader's statement "all of the lies they told".

 

[Betty P]

I agree with that but it probably came afterwards in my mind. Why even mention the MJ until you're being doubted. In trying to think like a killer, I wouldn't let on I knew about the grows unless I had to because I needed to throw dirt on someone to get the heat off me. It's hard to think like a killer though so I don't know...JMO.

I'm thinking they brought it up because they could use it as a reason to justify the custody battle between JW and Hanna R. They probably didn't want LE to focus on the custody fight as the motive for the murders. Remember, Leonard M said that police had been called a couple weeks before the murders over a fight and they behaved badly towards the victims. So, Pike County LE already knew there was a custody battle going on.

 

[ColMustard]

Finished the movie, and can see why it will be a cult classic, same genre as Pulp Fiction. Easy to see why some find it distasteful, and easy to see where comedy is written into the script.

Should've taken notes, noticed some things that could be part of evidence, and other things that mesh with the case itself, purely by accident (unless somehow it was used by the killers in this case).

One of the first several scenes in the movie, the FBI investigator says, "This is no gangland killing, this is personal."

One of the last lines in the movie, by one of the "saints". - "How far are we going to take this, Dad?"

If I get a chance I'll watch again and take notes.

Anyone notice anything about this picture?

Anyway, at that angle and lighting, the one on the right looks like JW.

 

[molly1255]

I'm thinking they brought it up because they could use it as a reason to justify the custody battle between JW and Hanna R. They probably didn't want LE to focus on the custody fight as the motive for the murders. Remember, Leonard M said that police had been called a couple weeks before the murders over a fight and they behaved badly towards the victims. So, Pike County LE already knew there was a custody battle going on.

What you stated makes a lot of sense. The custody battle was not a secret, and the W's would have not have wanted LE to even suspect that the custody battle WAS the motive for the murders. Reader's statement "all the lies they told" and the way he said it has really stuck with me.

When this goes to trial, hopefully we'll learn about the lies they told, and at least for me, it might explain some of the things about the investigation that I found perplexing.

JMO

 

[molly1255]

I think AW and JW were doing more than that. They were probably also flooding LE with "tips" - wild claims about CR1 and the others dealing drugs and working with drug cartels; they probably pointed fingers to a lot of other people in the area and accused them of working with CR1, KR, GR, etc. in a drug ring. By drug ring, I'm guessing the Wagners were (falsely) alleging much more than MJ in the grow ops. They probably gave LE that false information as the reason why JW was seeking custody of their daughter. We can assume this because the same terrible lies were being spread here at WS, on Facebook and elsewhere. Remember all the wild rumors about drug cartels, dog fighting criminal gangs, demolition derby thugs, etc.

LE might have held off treating the W's as suspects because they were getting a lot of what they thought were valuable tips about the killers. Perhaps, when those tips kept leading to dead ends, they decided it was time to look at the W's.

JMO

DeWine did say that they learned a lot about things that were going on in the county, but I don't think anything they learned helped them with the R murder case. A family member of mine was a homicide detective when I was growing up, so I was definitely influenced about how homicides were solved. This was many years ago but one thing that likely hasn't changed is the suspicion LE has toward people who insert themselves into a murder investigation, under the guise of trying to help LE.

With all of the things that happened before the laser focus was put on the W's, I'd say LE were likely following tips they had received. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been charged with providing false information, and I think they would have been charged, especially with the resources and time put into this investigation.

"They probably gave LE that false information as the reason why JW was seeking custody of their daughter."

I agree.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

DeWine did say that they learned a lot about things that were going on in the county, but I don't think anything they learned helped them with the R murder case. A family member of mine was a homicide detective when I was growing up, so I was definitely influenced about how homicides were solved. This was many years ago but one thing that likely hasn't changed is the suspicion LE has toward people who insert themselves into a murder investigation, under the guise of trying to help LE.

With all of the things that happened before the laser focus was put on the W's, I'd say LE were likely following tips they had received. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been charged with providing false information, and I think they would have been charged, especially with the resources and time put into this investigation.

"They probably gave LE that false information as the reason why JW was seeking custody of their daughter."

I agree.

JMO

BBM

Humm...Very interesting...The Wagner's inserted themselves into the investigation:

Wagner family Attorney Clark after laser focus announcement:

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not followed up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

"Leads" means suspects. What else could it mean? And their attorney points to drug lords as suspects.
LE apparently was blowing off the Wagners, pegging them as liars after all those false leads/suspects.

I think they hid the notion that Jake wanted full custody if that's what you mean.

Angela:
"They were only trying to finalize in writing the visitation they already had in place."

Jake:
"The visitation was working fine, I didn't want that (full custody) I was only suppose to spend time with her and give her a nice childhood."
**cough**

...2 Cents...

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BP
In the older post was there discussion about Wagners might have been in Some kind of militant survivalist group in o

I think AW and JW were doing more than that. They were probably also flooding LE with "tips" - wild claims about CR1 and the others dealing drugs and working with drug cartels; they probably pointed fingers to a lot of other people in the area and accused them of working with CR1, KR, GR, etc. in a drug ring. By drug ring, I'm guessing the Wagners were (falsely) alleging much more than MJ in the grow ops. They probably gave LE that false information as the reason why JW was seeking custody of their daughter. We can assume this because the same terrible lies were being spread here at WS, on Facebook and elsewhere. Remember all the wild rumors about drug cartels, dog fighting criminal gangs, demolition derby thugs, etc.

LE might have held off treating the W's as suspects because they were getting a lot of what they thought were valuable tips about the killers. Perhaps, when those tips kept leading to dead ends, they decided it was time to look at the W's.

JMO

BCI investigators are trained in not to get tunnel vision, meaning that the LE investigation was looking everywhere and that they was looking at everyone and listening, The Wagners didn’t have anyone fooled, LE was on to the Wagners lies earlier than we know they let the Wagners have enough time to convict themselves, JMO

 

[molly1255]

BBM

Humm...Very interesting...The Wagner's inserted themselves into the investigation:

Wagner family Attorney Clark after laser focus announcement:

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not followed up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

"Leads" means suspects. What else could it mean? And their attorney points to drug lords as suspects.
LE apparently was blowing off the Wagners, pegging them as liars after all those false leads/suspects.

I think they hid the notion that Jake wanted full custody if that's what you mean.

Angela:
"They were only trying to finalize in writing the visitation they already had in place."

Jake:
"The visitation was working fine, I didn't want that (full custody) I was only suppose to spend time with her and give her a nice childhood."
**cough**

...2 Cents...

My thoughts are LE likely talked to the W's very early on because of the custody dispute. LE was looking at anyone and everyone who may have had a dispute with any of the R's. It's hard to get inside the minds of murderers but I imagine the W's likely came off as very sincere and very helpful and really downplayed just how much they wanted custody of SW because they didn't want LE to figure out the motive for the murders was custody.

I go back to my homicide detective relative and the things that he talked about. I am absolutely positive that anyone who showed their face twice to him to provide information about a murder case would have been viewed with suspicion by him, especially if that person or persons were known to have had a relationship and then a dispute with the victim or victims and that dispute was "won" by murder. It was not a secret to LE there had been a custody dispute and that JW quickly swooped in to get custody of SW after the murders.

Not following up on leads the Wag's wanted to provide, waiting 4-5 months to get back to BW, who apparently wanted to talk to LE badly to give them information? Drug lords! Hmmmmm. Betcha their insides were churning as they waited and waited no one from LE called.

I still question whether there really was a grow op. LM was absolutely blown away when he heard that and his reaction was genuine. He didn't know anything about it. LM still referred to CR Sr. as his son-in-law, even though DR and CR were divorced. LM was on the R properties, likely on a regular basis, and I think if something big was going on, he would have noticed it and his reaction to the news of a grow op would have different than what he expressed.

We're going to have to wait until the trials to find out what kind of games LE played with the W's in order to solve the case and how long it took to collect enough evidence for a successful prosecution, and also to see what kind of games the W's tried to play with LE.

I agree - leads = suspects.

All JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BBM

Humm...Very interesting...The Wagner's inserted themselves into the investigation:

Wagner family Attorney Clark after laser focus announcement:

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not followed up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

"Leads" means suspects. What else could it mean? And their attorney points to drug lords as suspects.
LE apparently was blowing off the Wagners, pegging them as liars after all those false leads/suspects.

I think they hid the notion that Jake wanted full custody if that's what you mean.

Angela:
"They were only trying to finalize in writing the visitation they already had in place."

Jake:
"The visitation was working fine, I didn't want that (full custody) I was only suppose to spend time with her and give her a nice childhood."
**cough**

...2 Cents...

CC
Your are correct in all that you have stated in this post, you did a really good job, Do you think that Billy was giving information to LE about his associates instead of Chris Sr being some kind of bad person that he was made out to be, If you go back and watch the old news reporters interviews everyone they ask about the Rhodens being corrupted, no one never knew anything about the Rhodens had marijuana growing/dealing, Remember what pastor Phil said when he was asked the question about if the Rhodens dealt marijuana, He said they didn’t have new cars or nice homes, Pastor Phil said the Rhodens where hard working family, BUT guess who had new trucks, new 4 Wheelers new guns just anything they wanted, Tell ME how a man on SSI with his wife that doesn’t work and on food stamps , 2 sons that doesn’t have full time jobs, that haves so much, JMO Billy Wagner was turning all the local bad people in that he new that was into no good to save his family from going to jail, JMO