OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #77

[gizmobtj]

Interesting read. Yup. George is done, too much added up against him. I still think all the jury has to believe is that he went along on the murders to be convicted of the murders. And too much of what Jake and Angela say is backed up by BCI evidence which goes along with his planning it and knowing about it.

Put a fork in it. Enjoy maximum security.

It will be interesting to hear where @RAISINISBACK is on this now that the case is taking a little more shape; always has an interesting take in my opinion. It seems that part of the reason AC &Co. have been on this methodical, plodding journey has been to (a) put the jurors in the investigators shoes to see how they came to the conclusion that George was involved and to counter the (b) Jake is weird but George was a nice guy who loved the Rhodens narrative.

I keep coming back to the fact that they arrested him without Angela's and Jake's testimony.

Angela's plea makes perfect sense because prosecutors believe she wasn't there and could avoid life. George has little too lose by not making a plea deal -- its life in prison likely if he's convicted (because of Jake's deal) and likely life in prison if he makes a plea. From his perspective, why not roll the dice?

But, yes, @Cool Cats , if i were on this jury and heard TW, heard about the family dynamics, knew about the forged custody document George signed, heard the evidence abour buying guns and saw that 8-ball skull tattoo, I would be leaning hard in the same direction as you.

We haven't even gotten to the oil filters, the testimony from EW that probably includes George's threat to investigators and Dewine and the recordings of Jake and George.

 

[gizmobtj]

My Opinions Only. I reserve the right to change them at any moment.

Observation having no bearing on the trial outcome: There have been 2 versions on why AW left the AF.

1. She was released due to a hardship and her father needing help. Under certain circumstances the AF would release individuals from their contracts, if hardship is verifiable, perhaps, thru Red Cross.

2. I dont recall the witness but another claimed she was released due to an assault committed on her. A rape or something similar could result in a discharge but a fist fight not so much. Anyway, either she lied, again, or rumors are flying. Not important either way.

I thought CN was believable, entertaining and a straight shooter. I couldn't help but notice Parker didn't have the guts to crowd CNs personal space like he did to intimidate women witnesses. I hope the jury takes note and doesnt cut the defense any slack in deliberation. And before anyone says it, I know they aren't supposed to be swayed by courtroom antics. However, the jury are human and it is fantasy to believe it doesn't matter. IMO

As previously mentioned, JW is a run-of-the-mill pedophile. IMO Personally, I feel all pedophiles in prison should have to wear a different colored uniform, pink/baby blue, etc... to distinquish peds from the rest of the thieves, murderers and rapists. The question is, was he abused sexually as a child by BW, AW or another family member? IMO

Like many others I do believe AW was a con artist, manipulator and just an overall evil person. I also believe she unloaded on DR just as I believe GW4 murdered GR. The hatred AW had against DR was there and so was the overkill. I think the W4s entire story was pre conceived for when they got arrested. This was how it was going to play out. The 3 stooges knew they didn't stand a chance of getting off but if we can get mommy off then at least she can see the grandkids. IMO. AW is so self serving she caused her mother to lose a 50 acre farm, and her dream home, to afford an attorney. She lied and manipulated her own mother into thinking her (AW)life was at risk if she didn't help. BALONEY!!!

BW is the poster child for a dumb as a box of rocks sterotype. Let me tell ya sumthin, BW, cursing doesnt make you believable. He also had a personal vendetta against Chris. I don't believe it was over dope, money or anything else. It was about Chris embarrassing him and he was fed up with it. He couldnt fight him man to man and win, so he shot him 9 times. JMO

GWIV, if you are really GOD fearing and all, as you only wanna read your bible and be left alone in jail, then you need to repent and confess your role in the murders. Either way, you are done. It isn't a matter of if but when. LWOP as an admitted murderer is more favorable than LWOP as a convicted murderer, in the eyes of you saviour. IMO I will say, so far, you are the weakling to your younger brother, at least mentally. You allowed your manipulative mother and mammas favorite boy JW, talk you into a LWOP sentence. Did she succeed in doing so while she scratched an itch late at night, as your wife had to leave you two alone, in your bed? Disgusting!! IMO

As previously noted. These are my opinions to-date. I reserve to right to change my opinions as evidence is produced. GW4 is done!!

Interesting take! What has you thinking GWIV shot GR?

 

[Betty P]

So, I relistened to what the reporter said and I think he is referring to the Ohio Fourth District Court of Appeals decsion striking down parts of Judge Deering's media order. It reportedly says, in part:

"Should Judge Deering or the prosecutors wish to restrict the media’s recording access in the future, the trial court must hold a hearing and make findings on the record in accordance with the factors enumerated above."

Since it's unpublished, we are missing context, but I would not be shocked if it isn't Judge Deering and, not the reporter, who gets the slap on the hand.

The arguments by Judge Deering, the prosecution and the defense on media access have been sophomoric and have lacked rigor. It's about the First Amendment and the public's right to know but it's also about the Sixith Amendment right of the defendant to have a public trial where the officers of the court are transparent and held to account for their behaviors by the public in protection of the rights of the defendant.

The authors of the Sixth Amendment put the words public trial right after speedy trial and before an impartial jury. A public trial is one of eight key elements of a fair trial. Last on the list is a lawyer. It tells you something about the importance the authors put on a speedy and public trial, which makes sense given the secret Kangroo Courts of England at the time (and many other places now).


“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”

Guardian wins lawsuit against Pike Co. Judge in Wagner trial - Scioto Valley Guardian

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio — In a ruling issued Tuesday morning, the local appellant court issued a finding in favor of the Guardian and other media outlets, striking down archaic rules set by the judge overseeing Ohio’s worst homicide trial. In a unanimous vote announced before 11 a.m., the justices of...

sciotovalleyguardian.com

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-6/#:~:text=In%20all%20criminal%20prosecutions%2C%20the,of%20the%20accusation%3B%20to%20be

JMO, this reporter possibly has a vested interest in making the judge look bad in front of the jury. JMO, the jury will not be influenced by the performance. Rather shocking to see this kind of behavior in a criminal trial, but there have been many surprising events since the Wagners committed the Pike County Massacre.

JMO

 

[CIA Team Member]

My Opinions Only. I reserve the right to change them at any moment.

Observation having no bearing on the trial outcome: There have been 2 versions on why AW left the AF.

1. She was released due to a hardship and her father needing help. Under certain circumstances the AF would release individuals from their contracts, if hardship is verifiable, perhaps, thru Red Cross.

2. I dont recall the witness but another claimed she was released due to an assault committed on her. A rape or something similar could result in a discharge but a fist fight not so much. Anyway, either she lied, again, or rumors are flying. Not important either way.

I thought CN was believable, entertaining and a straight shooter. I couldn't help but notice Parker didn't have the guts to crowd CNs personal space like he did to intimidate women witnesses. I hope the jury takes note and doesnt cut the defense any slack in deliberation. And before anyone says it, I know they aren't supposed to be swayed by courtroom antics. However, the jury are human and it is fantasy to believe it doesn't matter. IMO

As previously mentioned, JW is a run-of-the-mill pedophile. IMO Personally, I feel all pedophiles in prison should have to wear a different colored uniform, pink/baby blue, etc... to distinquish peds from the rest of the thieves, murderers and rapists. The question is, was he abused sexually as a child by BW, AW or another family member? IMO

Like many others I do believe AW was a con artist, manipulator and just an overall evil person. I also believe she unloaded on DR just as I believe GW4 murdered GR. The hatred AW had against DR was there and so was the overkill. I think the W4s entire story was pre conceived for when they got arrested. This was how it was going to play out. The 3 stooges knew they didn't stand a chance of getting off but if we can get mommy off then at least she can see the grandkids. IMO. AW is so self serving she caused her mother to lose a 50 acre farm, and her dream home, to afford an attorney. She lied and manipulated her own mother into thinking her (AW)life was at risk if she didn't help. BALONEY!!!

BW is the poster child for a dumb as a box of rocks sterotype. Let me tell ya sumthin, BW, cursing doesnt make you believable. He also had a personal vendetta against Chris. I don't believe it was over dope, money or anything else. It was about Chris embarrassing him and he was fed up with it. He couldnt fight him man to man and win, so he shot him 9 times. JMO

GWIV, if you are really GOD fearing and all, as you only wanna read your bible and be left alone in jail, then you need to repent and confess your role in the murders. Either way, you are done. It isn't a matter of if but when. LWOP as an admitted murderer is more favorable than LWOP as a convicted murderer, in the eyes of you saviour. IMO I will say, so far, you are the weakling to your younger brother, at least mentally. You allowed your manipulative mother and mammas favorite boy JW, talk you into a LWOP sentence. Did she succeed in doing so while she scratched an itch late at night, as your wife had to leave you two alone, in your bed? Disgusting!! IMO

As previously noted. These are my opinions to-date. I reserve to right to change my opinions as evidence is produced. GW4 is done!!

Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development.[1] It differs from pedophilia (the primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children), and from ephebophilia (the primary sexual interest in later adolescents, typically ages 15–19). - Hebephilia - Wikipedia

 

[CIA Team Member]

So, I relistened to what the reporter said and I think he is referring to the Ohio Fourth District Court of Appeals decsion striking down parts of Judge Deering's media order. It reportedly says, in part:

"Should Judge Deering or the prosecutors wish to restrict the media’s recording access in the future, the trial court must hold a hearing and make findings on the record in accordance with the factors enumerated above."

Since it's unpublished, we are missing context, but I would not be shocked if it isn't Judge Deering and, not the reporter, who gets the slap on the hand.

The arguments by Judge Deering, the prosecution and the defense on media access have been sophomoric and have lacked rigor. It's about the First Amendment and the public's right to know but it's also about the Sixith Amendment right of the defendant to have a public trial where the officers of the court are transparent and held to account for their behaviors by the public in protection of the rights of the defendant.

The authors of the Sixth Amendment put the words public trial right after speedy trial and before an impartial jury. A public trial is one of eight key elements of a fair trial. Last on the list is a lawyer. It tells you something about the importance the authors put on a speedy and public trial, which makes sense given the secret Kangroo Courts of England at the time (and many other places now).


“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”

Guardian wins lawsuit against Pike Co. Judge in Wagner trial - Scioto Valley Guardian

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio — In a ruling issued Tuesday morning, the local appellant court issued a finding in favor of the Guardian and other media outlets, striking down archaic rules set by the judge overseeing Ohio’s worst homicide trial. In a unanimous vote announced before 11 a.m., the justices of...

sciotovalleyguardian.com

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-6/#:~:text=In%20all%20criminal%20prosecutions%2C%20the,of%20the%20accusation%3B%20to%20be

IMO, "public" trial needs to catch up to today's standards: We now have internet and "the public" at large should be considered in today's terms. Citizens who want to view via in-person OR online should be acceptable. Why should those of unable to attend trials be excluded?

My useless 2 cents.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I keep coming back to the fact that they arrested him without Angela's and Jake's testimony.

I agree.

 

[LMDlong]

Here is the Court of Appeals full decision on the matter-

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

It only pertains to exhibits, not witness testimony. Judge Deering cannot allow the witness testimony to be broadcast if the witness opts out, that right falls under Ohio Supreme Court Rule 12 Conditions for Broadcasting and Photographing Court Proceedings (page 201) here-

https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/docs/LegalResources/Rules/superintendence/Superintendence.pdf

<modsnip - namecalling is not permitted>

Thank you for posting the links the documents.

 

[sunshineray]

My Opinions Only. I reserve the right to change them at any moment.

Observation having no bearing on the trial outcome: There have been 2 versions on why AW left the AF.

1. She was released due to a hardship and her father needing help. Under certain circumstances the AF would release individuals from their contracts, if hardship is verifiable, perhaps, thru Red Cross.

2. I dont recall the witness but another claimed she was released due to an assault committed on her. A rape or something similar could result in a discharge but a fist fight not so much. Anyway, either she lied, again, or rumors are flying. Not important either way.

I thought CN was believable, entertaining and a straight shooter. I couldn't help but notice Parker didn't have the guts to crowd CNs personal space like he did to intimidate women witnesses. I hope the jury takes note and doesnt cut the defense any slack in deliberation. And before anyone says it, I know they aren't supposed to be swayed by courtroom antics. However, the jury are human and it is fantasy to believe it doesn't matter. IMO

As previously mentioned, JW is a run-of-the-mill pedophile. IMO Personally, I feel all pedophiles in prison should have to wear a different colored uniform, pink/baby blue, etc... to distinquish peds from the rest of the thieves, murderers and rapists. The question is, was he abused sexually as a child by BW, AW or another family member? IMO

Like many others I do believe AW was a con artist, manipulator and just an overall evil person. I also believe she unloaded on DR just as I believe GW4 murdered GR. The hatred AW had against DR was there and so was the overkill. I think the W4s entire story was pre conceived for when they got arrested. This was how it was going to play out. The 3 stooges knew they didn't stand a chance of getting off but if we can get mommy off then at least she can see the grandkids. IMO. AW is so self serving she caused her mother to lose a 50 acre farm, and her dream home, to afford an attorney. She lied and manipulated her own mother into thinking her (AW)life was at risk if she didn't help. BALONEY!!!

BW is the poster child for a dumb as a box of rocks sterotype. Let me tell ya sumthin, BW, cursing doesnt make you believable. He also had a personal vendetta against Chris. I don't believe it was over dope, money or anything else. It was about Chris embarrassing him and he was fed up with it. He couldnt fight him man to man and win, so he shot him 9 times. JMO

GWIV, if you are really GOD fearing and all, as you only wanna read your bible and be left alone in jail, then you need to repent and confess your role in the murders. Either way, you are done. It isn't a matter of if but when. LWOP as an admitted murderer is more favorable than LWOP as a convicted murderer, in the eyes of you saviour. IMO I will say, so far, you are the weakling to your younger brother, at least mentally. You allowed your manipulative mother and mammas favorite boy JW, talk you into a LWOP sentence. Did she succeed in doing so while she scratched an itch late at night, as your wife had to leave you two alone, in your bed? Disgusting!! IMO

As previously noted. These are my opinions to-date. I reserve to right to change my opinions as evidence is produced. GW4 is done!!

I saw a similarity between BW and AW in their audios. BW with the...lemme tell you sumthin...and AW with the...here's the thing...or the let me tell you one thing.

 

[rsd1200]

gizmobtj said:
I keep coming back to the fact that they arrested him without Angela's and Jake's testimony.

Not that much evidence is really required to arrest someone. LE simply has to have reasonable or probable cause. It is not a standard of proof. The Grand Jury will usually indict a ham sandwich as the old saying goes. So it's left up to the prosecution to prove the case set before them.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

So the world can see how the Wagners got so many vehicles, gun and big boy toy, they where a crime family, but how did they fly under the police radar? JMO

 

[rebelchild]

AC has a bit of trouble framing her questions. Many of the objections were back to back of the same objection, due to this reason. At one point her co-counsel was looking a bit concerned and as if he was sending a question telepathically.

It's just strange to me that they make an objection without stating a reason and the judge either asks them for the basis of their objection .. or the judge makes one up for them. I've seen it over and over since this trial began. It's definitely hard to hear sometimes so you are probably right that the objections that are back to back are for the same reason. I just personally think if the lawyers can't state the reason for their objection or state the wrong reason, then that objection should be denied. IMO the judge shouldn't have to make a case for them.

 

[sunshineray]

So, I relistened to what the reporter said and I think he is referring to the Ohio Fourth District Court of Appeals decsion striking down parts of Judge Deering's media order. It reportedly says, in part:

"Should Judge Deering or the prosecutors wish to restrict the media’s recording access in the future, the trial court must hold a hearing and make findings on the record in accordance with the factors enumerated above."

Since it's unpublished, we are missing context, but I would not be shocked if it isn't Judge Deering and, not the reporter, who gets the slap on the hand.

The arguments by Judge Deering, the prosecution and the defense on media access have been sophomoric and have lacked rigor. It's about the First Amendment and the public's right to know but it's also about the Sixith Amendment right of the defendant to have a public trial where the officers of the court are transparent and held to account for their behaviors by the public in protection of the rights of the defendant.

The authors of the Sixth Amendment put the words public trial right after speedy trial and before an impartial jury. A public trial is one of eight key elements of a fair trial. Last on the list is a lawyer. It tells you something about the importance the authors put on a speedy and public trial, which makes sense given the secret Kangroo Courts of England at the time (and many other places now).


“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”

Guardian wins lawsuit against Pike Co. Judge in Wagner trial - Scioto Valley Guardian

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio — In a ruling issued Tuesday morning, the local appellant court issued a finding in favor of the Guardian and other media outlets, striking down archaic rules set by the judge overseeing Ohio’s worst homicide trial. In a unanimous vote announced before 11 a.m., the justices of...

sciotovalleyguardian.com

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-6/#:~:text=In%20all%20criminal%20prosecutions%2C%20the,of%20the%20accusation%3B%20to%20be

So the Ohio Fourth District Court of Appeals decision on this matter is unpublished to date?

 

[gizmobtj]

IMO, "public" trial needs to catch up to today's standards: We now have internet and "the public" at large should be considered in today's terms. Citizens who want to view via in-person OR online should be acceptable. Why should those of unable to attend trials be excluded?

My useless 2 cents.

I actually think you are not alone on that. A lot of courts have said the "public" should not be limited by the capacity of the courtroom

 

[gizmobtj]

Not that much evidence is really required to arrest someone. LE simply has to have reasonable or probable cause. It is not a standard of proof. The Grand Jury will usually indict a ham sandwich as the old saying goes. So it's left up to the prosecution to prove the case set before them.

True but most prosecutors are going to arrest someone for a high profile murder -- a with no statue of limitations -- unless they have more than probable cause

 

[gizmobtj]

So the Ohio Fourth District Court of Appeals decision on this matter is unpublished to date?

It looks like someone found a copy from Law & Crime, a party to the suit, on document cloud, but the Court had not published it yet. Here's the link:

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Does any of you Sleuthers know if the judge could have something done over the defense attorney that keeps calling objections to everything the prosecution says without anything to back up the objections other than just to discourage the prosecution attorneys while trying to present their case, seems to me that defense attorney could be disbarred for such action, JMO

 

[rescuemom]

I can understand that innocent people who are drug in to criminal cases to become witnesses through no fault of their own have the right to opt out of audio or video that could expose or endanger them but with JW and AW pleading guilty to multiple charges, I can't understand how they can be considered mere 'witnesses' so that they now have the right or choice to opt of this public trial.

 

[rescuemom]

Does any of you Sleuthers know if the judge could have something done over the defense attorney that keeps calling objections to everything the prosecution says without anything to back up the objections other than just to discourage the prosecution attorneys while trying to present their case, seems to me that defense attorney could be disbarred for such action, JMO

I don't think Judge Deering has been consistent in his ruling or that he wants to 'pi$$' off anyone. I don't know his history. I still believe that early on it was said that a special judge would hear theses cases. JMO

 

[ColMustard]

I actually think you are not alone on that. A lot of courts have said the "public" should not be limited by the capacity of the courtroom

Judge Deering said that himself, either yesterday or Thursday.

Pretty sure it was yesterday morning.

 

[Cool Cats]

Search warrant testimony in George Wagner's trial reveals array of guns with no direct tie to homicides

Prosecutors claim knowledge of weapons will help jurors piece together complex murder case

www.wlwt.com

Creepy skeleton guns. Agent calls them grim reaper guns. Before the jury was seated Tuesday morning, Parker objected to letting the jury see the firearms in question, arguing they have nothing to do with the charges against George Wagner.

But the judge sided with prosecutors who claimed the testimony will help jurors better understand the state of Ohio's case against the 31-year-old.

BCI agents found about two dozen firearms in a house on the ranch, including two pistols with grips featuring eerie imagery.

"I would call that image the grim reaper," BCI Special Agent Perry Roeser said.