OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

[joe jones]

It's the defense attorney's job to ruffle feathers. It would be very helpful to hear what is said and the questions that are asked, but we are left with what reporters tweet. I am not saying he didn't tell 2 different versions, but again defense is trying to trip him up. If he misspoke or if he just plain told 2 different versions, then on re direct she can attempt to clarify and clear it up.

If he lied then he has no deal. I don't know why he would sit in court and knowingly lie when his deal hinges on him testifying. If anything to me him lying is an attempt to get his brother off the hook totally. He certainly isn't trying to save himself by lying. He has also said he wished his brother could go home and his brother was against the plan. If he's playing a game it's not one that is pinning it on George so it isn't really making George look good if we can't believe anything Jake says. If anything it might make the jury think Jake is lying to protect George by minimizing his role.

but he's not minimizing GW role, as GW being present at the crime scene makes him as guilty as JW, and JW knew that when he did his proffer, so every time he says GW did this or BW did that, he is making his brother and father just as culpable as if they shot all 8,

 

[PrairieWind]

Did you ever wonder why Jake said mom and dad asked him if he wanted to talk about what happened?

If George was at the scene why didn't mom and dad ask him if he wanted to talk about it?

Then dad asks Jake if he regrets what happened?

If George was at the scene why doesn't dad ask George if he regrets what happened?

Something to think about.

JMO

How do we know they didn't ask George those things?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hey Raisin. Cheer up a little. For me

I have customers that belch in front of me all the time. A couple I am sure can not help it. Others do say 'excuse me' tho.
Now the laughing is horrid... but don't some people laugh when really nervous? Very unfortunate.

As far as GW and BW being at/shooting others it doesn't really matter as long as they can be put at CRs... which in my opinion they do. The evidence at least at that crime scene fits pretty good IMO.

Anyway... can't stand to see you riled up so.

@dgfred

It's Raize.

Believe me I am not riled up at all. I have been laughing so hard tears come to my eyes every time I think about Jake laughing and belching all the way. Sounds like Santa Claus.

JMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It's the defense attorney's job to ruffle feathers. It would be very helpful to hear what is said and the questions that are asked, but we are left with what reporters tweet. I am not saying he didn't tell 2 different versions, but again defense is trying to trip him up. If he misspoke or if he just plain told 2 different versions, then on re direct she can attempt to clarify and clear it up.

If he lied then he has no deal. I don't know why he would sit in court and knowingly lie when his deal hinges on him testifying. If anything to me him lying is an attempt to get his brother off the hook totally. He certainly isn't trying to save himself by lying. He has also said he wished his brother could go home and his brother was against the plan. If he's playing a game it's not one that is pinning it on George so it isn't really making George look good if we can't believe anything Jake says. If anything it might make the jury think Jake is lying to protect George by minimizing his role.

If I were on the jury, I'd be struggling. If George was against the plan, as Jake said, I'd so want to hear George say that. I know he has the right not to testify, and that jurors are not to allow his decision to play a part in determining his guilt or innocence, but I think if he wants a snowball's chance, he better testify. MOO

 

[altojack]

Talks about Jake laughing and belching....

Sickened to hear of his response. No other words!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

they only needed 1 gun at a time, fire at CRsr by making a noise outside so he came to door, put that gun down go inside with the Glock kill CRsr and GR, kill DR HR CRjr FR HG with Colt, go to KR kill him with Glock,

I could see one person being able to do it, not sure if one did but it's possible, I question everything, it is the state that argues that the murdering began after that phone call from Crsr to BW phone, that comes from JW, timing could be completely different the phone call to BW phone could have nothing to do with a ruse to find BW phone, could just be a call from one friend to another

I take nothing as being proven until it is,

As OP (can't remember who so cannot give credit) pointed out on here there is a lot of empty time missing.

JMO

 

[rescuemom]

But that would be: JW drives up at CRs, jumps out loaded down, fires the rifle at CR wounding him only, somehow rushes in to both shoot CR and another in the head several times... all without being fired on himself.

Receipt for 2 pair of murder shoes. 3 ski mask. Several silencers. Truck fixed to hide several people if needed. There is more I am missing.

CRsr is standing at the door calling BWs phone. GR is in the house in a recliner. George freezes. JW shoots, BW gets out of the way while JW shoots CRsr in the arm. All 3 rush the house. They all shoot inside the house. This was the first house, it happened quick. JW goes to get the recorder, BW and GW move the bodies. How does any of the 3 know who shot who? Especially if they didn't talk about it after!!RIGHT!!! They murdered 2 men. GW probly chickened out at the other places but JW is not convincing me that GW did not shoot a gun. Maybe he didn't fire the kill shot but he was there, he conspired, shot off his mouth, he bought items, he hid items, got tattoos, he is guilty !!!

 

[Cool Cats]

All interesting arguments.

Does George have an alibi for that night?

That he stayed home.
No proof, just shows his phone was there.

Also, from Bond Hearing, George places himself in his bed that night saying he could see from his room if someone had left that night. And testimony says Jake, unusual for him, got up earlier than George the next morning, again placing George in his own bed.

The defense said George didn't go along that night. There has never been any mention of George being anywhere other than at home. Scheiderer said that they knew George's phone was at Peterson Rd that night, but they could not tell if George was there with his phone.

All 4 phones were shown to be at Peterson Rd. that night including Billy's. First time in 2016 all 4 phones were together.

So my personal overall impression is the Wagner's alibi is they stayed home that night but there is no proof they did.

 

[Myland]

JW says he handed BW his gun to hold, and BW then shot two bullets into FR, and we only know 3 guns were used that could mean one killer 3 guns, 2 killers 3 guns, or 3 killers 3 guns, I was of the view JW killed 5 BW 3, but after learning JW has suddenly remembered in July of this year BW shot 2 bullets into FR I doubt JW story that BW shot anybody,

the July remembering was when the prosecution visited JW in jail, IMO they possibly asked him to think very hard about him seeing BW shoot at one of the victims, as JW did not according to him see BW shoot either CRSR GR or KR, and they have not a smidgen of evidence against BW placing him at the crime scenes, so how convenient JW suddenly remembers over a year after his proffer oops forgot to tell you Dad shot FR twice

Jmo here’s my problem with that: we know how Billy felt about those boys and those boys had some harsh words about him. Now he claims he wanted to save his family, but without getting anything in return he volunteered new information? To me that is probably a lie and makes me wonder what other big lies he is capable of. Why lie when when not needed? Jmo

 

[Pru2U]

GW does not have to prove or disprove anything, the onus is on the state to provide enough evidence to get to BARD so that a jury can convict him, if the state doesn't get to BARD then he is acquitted,

no defendant has to provide a defense, they do so because they are trying to show the state cannot prove its case,

but if GW and his attorneys sat at the table and never said a word the onus would still be on the state,

I do understand that, however, if GW had a solid alibi, he wouldn’t be sitting at the defense table to begin with.

GW is not sitting in that chair because the prosecution doesn’t have enough evidence against him. He’s in that chair because he was there that night.

 

[Pru2U]

That he stayed home.
No proof, just shows his phone was there.

Also, from Bond Hearing, George places himself in his bed that night saying he could see from his room if someone had left that night. And testimony says Jake, unusual for him, got up earlier than George the next morning, again placing George in his own bed.

The defense said George didn't go along that night. There has never been any mention of George being anywhere other than at home. I don't remember if the defense came right out and specifically said George stayed home that night, but I think this is what they imply.

All 4 phones were shown to be at Peterson Rd. that night including Billy's. First time in 2016 all 4 phones were together.

So my personal overall impression is the Wagner's alibi is they stayed home that night but there is no proof they did.

Scheiderer said that they knew George's phone was at Peterson Rd that night, but that didn't prove George was with his phone that night.

It hasn’t happened yet but I have a pretty strong feeling Angela is going to testify she was home and GW wasn’t there with her.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It seems to me that Jake still feels the outcome was the only option. So his testimony seems cold because he might still think what he did he had to do to protect Sophia. He feels sorry he ended their lives maybe.. but he thinks the motive was just. His parents still have a hold on him. He wanted to see them one last time. He loves his mother. He wants George to be able to go home. Man, it's like he owned up to what he did in a matter of fact way and that sounds cold as ice, but I don't think he's lying. I think he has either completetly put what he did in a box so he is able to talk about it.

I really don't see him lying to say George was there if he wasn't.

I think dealing with his parents and with what he's done will have to be a process for him. He simply doesn't have the tools to deal with it all at once. I don't see Jake as evil; although, he most certainly committed evil acts.

I think he's relating his reasons as honestly as he can. I'm sure he felt, at the time, his reasons were just. He may still, as you said. Put another way, what father wouldn't move heaven and earth to protect a tender age child from being raped? I believe that HR's response might have been blunted, when compared to his. This could have been due to many reasons, not the least of which could have been that she genuinely didn't think there was a risk. What parent wouldn't be terrified at the thought? So, he takes his concerns home, where Mom fans the flames to manipulate him and to get what she wants and Dad, very matter-of-factly, states who will need to be killed. There were no cooler heads to help reassure him or guide him as he sought to co-parent. I think Angela and Billy took every opportunity to manipulate both sons. AMOO

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

Jake testified that they left Peterson Rd to commit the murders around 9PM and returned home after completing the murders around 430AM. From his testimonies when he lays out the crimes it doesn't sound like it took anywhere close to 7 1/2 hours. I wonder if they took long pauses in between each home?

 

[Myland]

But that would be: JW drives up at CRs, jumps out loaded down, fires the rifle at CR wounding him only, somehow rushes in to both shoot CR and another in the head several times... all without being fired on himself.

Receipt for 2 pair of murder shoes. 3 ski mask. Several silencers. Truck fixed to hide several people if needed. There is more I am missing.

Jmo I don’t buy the ski masks part. Jake burns all clothing but saves the ski masks that could have blood on them. Can’t buy that one. Jmo

 

[joe jones]

I do understand that, however, if GW had a solid alibi, he wouldn’t be sitting at the defense table to begin with.

GW is not sitting in that chair because the prosecution doesn’t have enough evidence against him. He’s in that chair because he was there that night.

and how fortunate is the justice system that it actually makes the prosecution prove its case, they can't just point at GW and say he is guilty because he is charged, innocent until proven guilty I think is the statement,

Many innocent men have been charged with heinous crimes, many convicted, for the most part the system works, and it works because the government are made to prove their cases,

David Camm is a prime example of what happens when a prosecutor goes off piste, it took him 3 trials to prove his innocence, and he would still be in prison if his defense team did not fight, and then fight some more, and then continue fighting all the while he was in prison convicted of murdering his wife and children,

The justice system only works IMO if every defendant is provided the best defense possible

 

[justtrish]

but he's not minimizing GW role, as GW being present at the crime scene makes him as guilty as JW, and JW knew that when he did his proffer, so every time he says GW did this or BW did that, he is making his brother and father just as culpable as if they shot all 8,

I still think in his mind he is minimizing it. He came forward to his attorney after his grandmother admitted she lied. He said then he didn't want to rat out his family, he intended to go to trial. I still don't think he wants to be testifying against his brother. He said he loves him, wishes he could go home. He knows he participated and that makes him involved, but that doesn't mean he wants to say things that make George's role seem worse. (we know it doesn't matter what role he had, if he had any role, he's guilty)

We won't really know the real reason George was there. That is only known by George. Was he going along to protect Jake? Does Jake perceive that the only reason George went was to protect him? Jake says he felt burdened and lied to his dad about how he was dealing with it all. Again only Jake knows if that is true. If it is, it seems to be he knows they are in this situation because of him, because his ex wouldn't protect his daughter and give her to him. Seems unthinkable to most of us, but that was his motivation and the reason his family rallied around and came up with this plan. He feels responsible so he wants to be the bad guy in every story. He is not sure who moved bodies, George froze up and didn't shoot, George was a lookout, George didn't want to do this, George said it wasn't a good idea, etc. He is trying to minimize George's role and that doesn't mean George will get off, but I think it allows Jake to sit up there and talk about it. Angela is an angel, he loves his family... etc

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Beth said that George would go with Chris N while "scrapping" whatever that is. But she said George would complain Chris was cheating him out of money when the items were sold or work done. I think that is what put the rift between Chris and George a month ago.

JMO

Scrapping, when done legally, is collecting discarded metal items and/ or doing haul away work for private citizens and/or businesses and keeping the metal items. Once you get a truck bed full, you turn it in to your local scrap yard and receive cash. Different metals are paid out at different rates, however. So it can be tricky when divvying up the money, unless all parties just agree to split the money equally. In my experience, scrapping is okay for a brief time, say if you are a little short on your mortgage one month or need to keep the lights on. It's also okay long-term if you've got another source of income. But it's a lot of work for little money, unless you just happen to find a cache of copper that someone is throwing away. (Never happened to me.) AMOO/MEO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

and how fortunate is the justice system that it actually makes the prosecution prove its case, they can't just point at GW and say he is guilty because he is charged, innocent until proven guilty I think is the statement,

Many innocent men have been charged with heinous crimes, many convicted, for the most part the system works, and it works because the government are made to prove their cases,

David Camm is a prime example of what happens when a prosecutor goes off piste, it took him 3 trials to prove his innocence, and he would still be in prison if his defense team did not fight, and then fight some more, and then continue fighting all the while he was in prison convicted of murdering his wife and children,

The justice system only works IMO if every defendant is provided the best defense possible

Excellent post!!

 

[Cool Cats]

Did you ever wonder why Jake said mom and dad asked him if he wanted to talk about what happened?

If George was at the scene why didn't mom and dad ask him if he wanted to talk about it?

Then dad asks Jake if he regrets what happened?

If George was at the scene why doesn't dad ask George if he regrets what happened?

Something to think about.

JMO

Maybe George was asked similar things but of course George isn't going on the stand to say this.

 

[Myland]

Jmo the deal the state made with Jake was to repeat the last story he told. It was not tell the truth, they don’t know for certain what the truth is. They want him to repeat a story. Just because he is repeating a story does not make it the truth. Jmo