OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[Betty P]

Because until they are charged with a crime, they are free to go anywhere they want. Even naming them as suspects would not have been enough to keep them from leaving Ohio. But if you noticed, LE making their leaving so public, announcing a "laser focus" on them, all but assured that LE in the Kenai and AK would be watching them very closely. I assume so they couldn't disappear and would be available for that time when they are charged.

I think Reader and DeWine know exactly who killed the R's and why. They just don't have the evidence for an arrest. So far the only hint that we have got was the raid on W property, "laser focus", and the arrest of JM. LE seemed pretty certain, at least certain enough to get a warrant, that the truck JM was driving had been used in the crime of capital murder. I would just like to know if the W's or a friend of theirs sold JM that truck.

Reader, Junk, DeWine and BCI have had nearly 2 yrs to investigate and gather whatever evidence they need to make arrests. Killing 8 people in 4 different crime scenes is bound to leave something to work with. Locking up all of that evidence and refusing to divulge any details, even the most insignificant, has hampered their investigation. So has threatening the local public and dragging their feet on offering a reward. Stick a fork in them, they're done. If they haven't "solved" it by now, they're not going to.

Time to let someone else take over the case and investigate, preferably the FBI, DEA, US Marshals, etc.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm also agreeing with rsd, family was involved somehow. Right now, pretty much all we know points to the W's. They have criminal background in their past, some for theft. They were truck drivers also. I believe at some time that CRsr and BW were best friends as AW indicated. How else could it not have been a "big deal" for CRsr and DR that their underage daughter dated, and had a baby with their son? (that we know of). And if they were best friends and had a criminal background (W's), they would know some of and probably particaipated in some of the same activities. Wow! imagine going through a custody battle with each other and knowing all the all the secrets of each other! How do you fight that? Knowing if it comes down to war, all the secrets could be revealed and jail time could be in the mix. IMO, both families were trying to avoid that.
This happened soon after DR and HMR moved into a new place without any drugs growing around the new property. Brand new place with seperate bedrooms for the child and new baby.(some states require this for children). And IMO, they waited for the new baby to be born, to make sure if it was a W or not. If the child was a W, then the same parent would get custody of the baby to. Then the grandparents, parents and grandchildren could all move to Alaska together and live happily ever after.
We all know the ones who in the media have been identified as the people who had had plans to spend the night with some of the victims. But what if some others did spend the night and could have let the killers into some of the homes? Remember, there was no evidence of break ins at any of the properties.

And this site is having problems, I didn't change the font and can't get it to change.

BBM
Now this makes even more sense, amauet1. I've never thought that either family were big time criminals or drug lords, but, even if they are both small timers, the mud slinging in court would have been something else! If the Ws had a bit more mud on them, because now HMR was in a home with her Momma, so what did it matter if they brought up CR1's weed grows? What to do then? They had nothing on HMR or DR, then. They'd moved off of 4077, and no one was after FR's baby. Nothing was found at DR's place. I was leery of pointing at the Ws early on, and have enjoyed playing Devil's Advocate, but it doesn't look good for the Ws, at this stage in the game. The one thing that has nagged at me, and it's a very small thing, re; the Ws, is that JW darkened his hair color and let it grow out a bit, right at this time. That's always struck me as odd in a fella whose never seemed to do that sort of thing before.

 

[rsd1200]

If this is the case, why did LE allow the Ws to leave the state? By naming them as possible suspects they should have been able to keep them in Ohio. Did they pull off the perfect crime?

Just like family, their dna was probably all over those trailers, prior to the murders. The firearms they might have used, if they in fact, are the ones, are probably common to the area, as are the ammo they used. Remember when they were asking for anyone to come forward who may have purchased anything from the Ws? Possibly a firearm? I think those firearms are long gone. They may know, or highly suspect, but they don't have enough to drive the final nails into the coffin.

 

[rsd1200]

Why did that happen AFTER they moved and not before? Was that a fishing expedition to see if someone would talk? Did they eliminate them as suspects after that "laser focus" and searches? They didn't name them as possible suspects or arrest anyone. LE has never said that anyone is not a possible suspect. Does that mean they have no idea who could have done this? Nothing about the investigation of this case is even close to normal operating procedure. Everyone should be concerned about that. They seem to think that eventually someone will come to them and tell them what happened instead of them finding out what happened. So far it looks like they are covering up something or just plain inept... And the man in charge wants to be governor....

Whoever did it, was very, very, careful. I think that they did make mistakes though. If it were the Ws, and I'm not 100% that it was, they'd have all of the means to carry it out, and one, along with possibly two, valid reasons to carry it out. People can convince themselves of doing right, even if it's very wrong, as long as it's "for the children".

 

[rsd1200]

Reader, Junk, DeWine and BCI have had nearly 2 yrs to investigate and gather whatever evidence they need to make arrests. Killing 8 people in 4 different crime scenes is bound to leave something to work with. Locking up all of that evidence and refusing to divulge any details, even the most insignificant, has hampered their investigation. So has threatening the local public and dragging their feet on offering a reward. Stick a fork in them, they're done. If they haven't "solved" it by now, they're not going to.

Time to let someone else take over the case and investigate, preferably the FBI, DEA, US Marshals, etc.

I saw one here drag on for 5-7 years and all they had was a smidge of dna on a piece of cloth. Billboards, hotlines, thousands in reward money, and nothing. Until the perpetrators left some dna at another location, and it was entered into the banks, nothing. There were even living witness in the home but they were young, like the victims (and the murderers were young, too), and apparently were so frightened that they were of little help at all. Like you, though, I'd love to see them bring in the FBI, and/or others. I really think that they could be of some assistance in this, and, I think they could use the help. This doesn't happen all the time, it is a unique case.

 

[Dudly]

Reader, Junk, DeWine and BCI have had nearly 2 yrs to investigate and gather whatever evidence they need to make arrests. Killing 8 people in 4 different crime scenes is bound to leave something to work with. Locking up all of that evidence and refusing to divulge any details, even the most insignificant, has hampered their investigation. So has threatening the local public and dragging their feet on offering a reward. Stick a fork in them, they're done. If they haven't "solved" it by now, they're not going to.

Time to let someone else take over the case and investigate, preferably the FBI, DEA, US Marshals, etc.

DeWine don't seem to want anyone else involved. Why?

 

[Dudly]

I saw one here drag on for 5-7 years and all they had was a smidge of dna on a piece of cloth. Billboards, hotlines, thousands in reward money, and nothing. Until the perpetrators left some dna at another location, and it was entered into the banks, nothing. There were even living witness in the home but they were young, like the victims (and the murderers were young, too), and apparently were so frightened that they were of little help at all. Like you, though, I'd love to see them bring in the FBI, and/or others. I really think that they could be of some assistance in this, and, I think they could use the help. This doesn't happen all the time, it is a unique case.

Why won't DeWine or Reader do that?

 

[rsd1200]

Why won't DeWine or Reader do that?

It is possible, that they do have some evidence, and they want all the glory when they finally break it, and they think they'll break it, before the elections. That's not unheard of in LE. You should see the posturing and boasting when they bust someone with five pot plants and $500.00, in these small communities. They put it on FB, and whoever does the write up must lift it from crime novels and replace pounds with ounces, but use the same descriptors for the "bad" guys. :facepalm: You'd think it was 100 pounds of Fentanyl or Meth, and $10k, in cash, and some Uzis. I think they want full credit, when it goes down. That's just my take.

 

[Hatfield]

Why won't DeWine or Reader do that?

JMO
One of my very early theories involved someone that knew about the post office delivery of the MJ shipments and could have been protecting the post office shipments.

I dont have the link handy to the news about the post office bust. One thing I remember reading about it was they did not announce who they arrested because that person was obviously being used to try to get to the big fish. Thats what the news article said anyway.

Shortly after that PO bust then the murders happened.
As far as I know, nobody has ever been charged in that post office MJ bust. The case just quietly went away after the murders unless I missed some followup about it.

I have to wonder if the murders involved silencing some people who may have been used to testify against others with that post office bust. The PO bust may have threatened to bring down everyone in the operation.

If their network of people involved some higher ups then it could be one reason no outside FBI involvement would be asked for. It could also explain why so many were killed. Eliminating their whole operation would ensure that those at the top remain untouched.

All just speculation of course.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
Now this makes even more sense, amauet1. I've never thought that either family were big time criminals or drug lords, but, even if they are both small timers, the mud slinging in court would have been something else! If the Ws had a bit more mud on them, because now HMR was in a home with her Momma, so what did it matter if they brought up CR1's weed grows? What to do then? They had nothing on HMR or DR, then. They'd moved off of 4077, and no one was after FR's baby. Nothing was found at DR's place. I was leery of pointing at the Ws early on, and have enjoyed playing Devil's Advocate, but it doesn't look good for the Ws, at this stage in the game. The one thing that has nagged at me, and it's a very small thing, re; the Ws, is that JW darkened his hair color and let it grow out a bit, right at this time. That's always struck me as odd in a fella whose never seemed to do that sort of thing before.

When this crime was first committed we all on here discussed at length whether that move 30 days prior had anything to do with it. It just seemed like too much to just be a coincidence. We really couldn't come up with a viable reason that it would. But hindsight is 20/20 and knowing what we do now, it is very possible that move by DR was the trigger that set everything in motion.

I have a feeling that AW was very used to getting what she wanted, and she wanted to move to AK and take both her grandchildren with her. The mother of the other grandchild signed over her parental rights, perhaps because she was threatened by the W's or simply did not have the money or the support from her family to fight them.

But HR was a whole different ball game. She had strong support from her family. And it looked like CR1 and DR were doing pretty well for themselves financially, so I am thinking the W's first asked and when HR refused and even took steps to make a good case in court for her keeping custody, that triggered a rage in AW and JW. Since, AW and AM are related I am thinking AW told AM that little Sw was being abused/molested or some such to enlist her help. I am not real sure at this time how much JM was involved, since AM had access to his cell phone to make the text to JW that night, but I do know it has been reported that DR and AM did not get along.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

JMO
One of my very early theories involved someone that knew about the post office delivery of the MJ shipments and could have been protecting the post office shipments.

I dont have the link handy to the news about the post office bust. One thing I remember reading about it was they did not announce who they arrested because that person was obviously being used to try to get to the big fish. Thats what the news article said anyway.

Shortly after that PO bust then the murders happened.
As far as I know, nobody has ever been charged in that post office MJ bust. The case just quietly went away after the murders unless I missed some followup about it.

I have to wonder if the murders involved silencing some people who may have been used to testify against others with that post office bust. The PO bust may have threatened to bring down everyone in the operation.

If their network of people involved some higher ups then it could be one reason no outside FBI involvement would be asked for. It could also explain why so many were killed. Eliminating their whole operation would ensure that those at the top remain untouched.

All just speculation of course.

BBM

Junk dismissed the charges against both of the suspects saying there was not enough evidence. Both suspects were young and iirc one was the son of the funeral home owner and the other the son of a car lot owner. I don't recall their names right now but I remember reading in MSM that Junk dismissed the charges against them.

 

[amauet1]

Rsd, the reason I thought about the "war" in a custody battle is I went through one myself. As I've said before, this family reminds me of my family back in the day. The custody battle got very nasty and took years to get my child back. Emotions run very high and it is very hard to keep calm when you know your child is in danger. Lawyers are not cheap either when your a single parent starting all over in life. Going to court every time you turn around and dealing with the worry of your child can become overwhelming! There were times I thought of just getting in a car and running away with my child. So I can understand what some people go through. Desperate people do desperate things. Killing someone never entered my mind, but I'm not a killer.

 

[Hatfield]

BBM

Junk dismissed the charges against both of the suspects saying there was not enough evidence. Both suspects were young and iirc one was the son of the funeral home owner and the other the son of a car lot owner. I don't recall their names right now but I remember reading in MSM that Junk dismissed the charges against them.

Thanks for the update on this. It sounds like it was totally unrelated then to the victims.

I wondered about the post office bust because when making shatter it takes large quantities of MJ to make it and I am pretty sure they could not grow enough to supply a shatter making operation so when hearing of the bust at the post office I had wondered if they were purchasing MJ from somewhere else just to make shatter out of it.

Unless there is some tie to the people involved with the post office bust and the victims then it sounds like it is unrelated and that theory can be crossed out.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

Junk dismissed the charges against both of the suspects saying there was not enough evidence. Both suspects were young and iirc one was the son of the funeral home owner and the other the son of a car lot owner. I don't recall their names right now but I remember reading in MSM that Junk dismissed the charges against them.

I remember that now. Happens more often than folks would think...charges disappear, or certain folks are found not guilty, when it wouldn't have happened for others in the same situation.

 

[rsd1200]

When this crime was first committed we all on here discussed at length whether that move 30 days prior had anything to do with it. It just seemed like too much to just be a coincidence. We really couldn't come up with a viable reason that it would. But hindsight is 20/20 and knowing what we do now, it is very possible that move by DR was the trigger that set everything in motion.

I have a feeling that AW was very used to getting what she wanted, and she wanted to move to AK and take both her grandchildren with her. The mother of the other grandchild signed over her parental rights, perhaps because she was threatened by the W's or simply did not have the money or the support from her family to fight them.

But HR was a whole different ball game. She had strong support from her family. And it looked like CR1 and DR were doing pretty well for themselves financially, so I am thinking the W's first asked and when HR refused and even took steps to make a good case in court for her keeping custody, that triggered a rage in AW and JW. Since, AW and AM are related I am thinking AW told AM that little Sw was being abused/molested or some such to enlist her help. I am not real sure at this time how much JM was involved, since AM had access to his cell phone to make the text to JW that night, but I do know it has been reported that DR and AM did not get along.

JMO

Rsd, the reason I thought about the "war" in a custody battle is I went through one myself. As I've said before, this family reminds me of my family back in the day. The custody battle got very nasty and took years to get my child back. Emotions run very high and it is very hard to keep calm when you know your child is in danger. Lawyers are not cheap either when your a single parent starting all over in life. Going to court every time you turn around and dealing with the worry of your child can become overwhelming! There were times I thought of just getting in a car and running away with my child. So I can understand what some people go through. Desperate people do desperate things. Killing someone never entered my mind, but I'm not a killer.

BBM

I agree with all of this. I think, that one thing that has made me look more at the Ws, is being over in the little Mariah Woods case. That case, like all kid cases, is heartbreaking. However, there are two kids left, that I worry about having some sort of life, and I'm not sure anyone in the family is capable of caring for them at the current point in time. It's bothered me and I'm just an onlooker. I went to my little grandchild's Christmas play last night, came home, thought about the Woods kids, and cried (and I don't cry, it just, happened...).

I thought about my child having to go to court to get supervised visitation set, for my grandchild's other parent. Had there not been funds from us, to hire a lawyer, it could have drug on forever, and it's possible the child could have been alone with the other parent when they ultimately took their own life. The other parent was not a horrible person. Troubled? Yes. People like my child, and Mariah's father, don't normally commit murder, over custody, because they know, for one, they'd not get away with it, so,# two, who'd be there for their child, afterwards? So, you don't see it often. It's usually familicide, if I can't have them, no one can have them, and then the parent offs themselves, too.

Although he'd made some very poor choices, that had left some negative impacts on our kids, I didn't kill my ex, either, his own habits did that (Not that I'm a perfect parent, because I am not. I don't think they exist.).

However, if AW spun a tale of S, potentially being abused by CR1 (As in, you know his Daddy did the same! That bloodline is tainted! for instance.), to rope them into helping, and combine that with possible jealousies that were already simmering under the surface? It could be possible. I think AW could be a vindictive person, and I'm not so sure the relationship between AM, and DR, was all that copacetic.

I'm still hesitant to point fingers at the Ws, as an absolute, though. Just been thinking about all the different family situations in these WS cases, and kids, and court, and custody,and high emotions, in my own family.

Here's one story, about a custody related murder, that I dug up. Has anyone else run across any?
http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Re...d-man-to-gain-custody-of-child-440986583.html

 

[Betty P]

BBM

Junk dismissed the charges against both of the suspects saying there was not enough evidence. Both suspects were young and iirc one was the son of the funeral home owner and the other the son of a car lot owner. I don't recall their names right now but I remember reading in MSM that Junk dismissed the charges against them.

But there was plenty of evidence: the big box of MJ shipped from California and the shatter lab at their home. I can guarantee that in the area where I live, men busted with that much evidence would have been arrested and charged. That sounds very much like a cover up of some sort. Apparently, that's just business as usual in Pike County. It raises some real red flags, especially when others in the area are busted, ticketed or jailed for much more minor offenses - like driving without a seat belt.

In fact, wouldn't shipping pot via US Mail be a federal offense?

 

[Jennifer17]

I have always thought that JW was a really controlling type. When HR had the second baby and told him he was not the father, he went to the hospital (maybe he took S to see the new baby) but he took off the baby's sock to check that her toes did not carry the family trait. I was gobsmacked at that. How dare he remove a baby's sock, that wasn't his baby. I think that a paternity test was done at his instigation. I would have refused that.

 

[Betty P]

I have always thought that JW was a really controlling type. When HR had the second baby and told him he was not the father, he went to the hospital (maybe he took S to see the new baby) but he took off the baby's sock to check that her toes did not carry the family trait. I was gobsmacked at that. How dare he remove a baby's sock, that wasn't his baby. I think that a paternity test was done at his instigation. I would have refused that.

So if the W's were involved in the murders in some way, why didn't Ohio BCI and PCSO investigate them sooner? Why haven't they been arrested? If they were the ones who killed all 8 people (and I don't believe they were) they would have left some evidence. Maybe they did. We don't know, we only have Reader & DeWine's word.

 

[Jennifer17]

So if the W's were involved in the murders in some way, why didn't Ohio BCI and PCSO investigate them sooner? Why haven't they been arrested? If they were the ones who killed all 8 people (and I don't believe they were) they would have left some evidence. Maybe they did. We don't know, we only have Reader & DeWine's word.

I don't know how they did it, but I do think that they were involved. They had a very good motive.MOO.

 

[rsd1200]

But there was plenty of evidence: the big box of MJ shipped from California and the shatter lab at their home. I can guarantee that in the area where I live, men busted with that much evidence would have been arrested and charged. That sounds very much like a cover up of some sort. Apparently, that's just business as usual in Pike County. It raises some real red flags, especially when others in the area are busted, ticketed or jailed for much more minor offenses - like driving without a seat belt.

In fact, wouldn't shipping pot via US Mail be a federal offense?

If the families of the two had money, or were well respected, then I could see them getting off. A friend of mine, was shot, in broad daylight, in front of witness, was not the aggressor, and, to top it off, was unarmed, and nearly died, yet the other fella, a man of means, walked scott free. I don't even think the other guy spent a night in jail! The guy walked right up to him and shot him, in front of God and everybody.