To find this thread I had to go to a closed thread, go to the last page, go to the next thread, go to the last page, which led here. There's no way to even find the thread otherwise.
GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #7
- Thread starter Cubby
- Start date
Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
- Status
To find this thread I had to go to a closed thread, go to the last page, go to the next thread, go to the last page, which led here. There's no way to even find the thread otherwise.
antiquegirl
New Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 4,263
- Reaction score
- 0
As Crocus pointed out, they didn't yet have him on the murder charges when they charged him with kidnapping. If they had the evidence to charge him with rape or sexual assault, they would have done it. They can still do it. But had they found the others deceased by that time, it may have played out differently.
Not sure how it works in the U.S., but here in Canada, if you're already charged with First Degree Murder and the prosecution has enough evidence to be assured of a conviction, lesser charges are sometimes ignored. If you're sentenced to LWOP, that means a minimum 25 years without parole and after that it's pretty iffy. Here, all sentences are served concurrently, so if you are convicted of murdering (say) 3 people, you'll get 3 sentences of LWOP, but still only serve the 25 years. It's the maximum sentence. Getting parole after those 25 years is up to a parole board to decide and often not granted. Three murders would pretty much guarantee that you're in there till you draw your last breath.
JMO
peeples
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 6,066
- Reaction score
- 39
I thought of that, but with the blood evidence I kinda think JMHO that they already knew the others were killed and they had enough to keep him locked up with the kidnapping. I still think they are protecting her, which is such a wonderful thing to do ,if in fact that's what is going on. I'm making some assumptions
Goodnight to all of the caring WS'ers on this thread ...........I pray that peace will find it's way back into the hearts and minds of all who are hurting from this tragedy.
Godspeed
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Herrmann-Maynard-Sprang Murders -OH-/
Thank you crocus for putting pictures in one place! I have not seen the first pic and am glad, she does look like a strong and brave girl! Blessings :hug:
peeples
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 6,066
- Reaction score
- 39
Reannan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 3,901
- Reaction score
- 372
Goodnight everyone. My heart aches for this family, and for Sarah. She has a rough road ahead of her and will need a lot of support. I sure hope she knows how many people really do care about her. Sure wish I could give her a hug.
mysteriew
A diamond in process
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2004
- Messages
- 23,811
- Reaction score
- 828
The only known connection between Hoffman and Maynard and her family is that Hoffman's parents live within walking distance of Maynard's mother's home.
Sarah Maynard and Family Disappeared Last Week
"At this time, whether he's connected to the family or whether he connected himself to the family… a lot of that remains to be seen," Sheriff David Barber said earlier in the week.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bodies-missing-people-found-ohio-police/story?id=12184250&page=2
Sarah Maynard and Family Disappeared Last Week
"At this time, whether he's connected to the family or whether he connected himself to the family… a lot of that remains to be seen," Sheriff David Barber said earlier in the week.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bodies-missing-people-found-ohio-police/story?id=12184250&page=2
Mish
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2008
- Messages
- 239
- Reaction score
- 4
I thought it was also stated that there was an additional connection, that being the gym that MH worked-out at, and SM also visited/worked at (at one point). ??? I KNOW I recall reading about this additional connection, but then again...:waitasec: So much tragedy...it fries my memory at times..
-Mish
Great point, especially if the appeal/parole boards are tough and there is a good amount of rehabilitative services to go along with it! Our laws seem so much more complex (convoluted?) in the US. What if a person is eighteen, takes out a few people, and still serves 25 year sentences concurrently, with the possibility of getting out at say the age 43-50? Does that happen in Canada? Maybe there is still time for that person to be miraculously rehabilitated and/or severely turned off from being in prison for 25 years so much, that the person is able to live out their life without causing harm to another human being and/or getting in anymore criminal trouble? Don't know what the statistics are on this...
Either way, so far from what has already been released to "the public" about this case, I seriously doubt mh will ever see the light of day outside a jail cell and possibly making court appearances for the rest of his life. It is very sad to me that a 30 year old would waste his life, even more tragic is that he would take another person(s) life on the way, and felt the need to do so. That is majorly f*%$-ed up to me and I wonder if mh even has a soul anymore...
antiquegirl
New Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 4,263
- Reaction score
- 0
It's too late here for me to search for the link, but a video was shown in one of the MSM stations. It was at the gym where SS (not SM) worked as a cleaner after hours. The gym employee said that MH worked out at the same gym, usually until closing time, and showed a portion of one of their security tapes with his face on it. IMHO, it's feasible that he noticed her and perhaps was even stalking her.
JMO
mysteriew
A diamond in process
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2004
- Messages
- 23,811
- Reaction score
- 828
I don't know, I just posted the quote from ABC and they didn't mention the health club in that article. I'm not contesting the health club story, I am just posting the quote.
The quote from the sheriff kinda indicates that they may not know too much about that either. It is kind of early for them to have completed a comprehensive investigation into any links between the family and Hoffman.
But being within walking distance of the Hermann's leads me to a theory. He would possibly have seen SM around the neighborhood. Maybe walking to the bus, maybe wandering the neighborhood in the summer. He could have developed a fixation on her, and maybe wanted to make her his "girlfriend."
When/IF he tried to kidnap her and if her mother and brother tried to prevent him, that could be the reason for their deaths. Same with the friend. Since the murders he could have been trying to calm SM and work himself into a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with her. I know that sounds crazy, but it has happened before that perps have wanted females before and convinced themselves that they could convince the female (no matter what happened or what they had to do to get her.) They convince themselves that if the woman/girl could just have time/proximity they would fall in love with him.
Ghostwheel
Pyrrhonist
They might not have charged him with rape and assault because kidnapping, depending on the circumstances, carries a greater sentence. Why bring either into the picture and possibly cause the poor girl more grief, if they don't need it? If it was kidnapping with special circumstances (and with that much blood they assumed murder, which is a special circumstance), he could get the death penalty. If he gets three consecutive life terms for the three murders, he's never getting out.
My guess is that they will not bring up anything to cause the daughter more grief unless they have to.
mysteriew
A diamond in process
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2004
- Messages
- 23,811
- Reaction score
- 828
DA's will almost always file for sex crimes if they have the evidence to prosecute. Even if there are are other crimes being charged. One reason is because it is considered to be a major crime, but also because it can be seen as a motive for another major crime. For instance a kidnapping and rape, the rape can be seen as a motive for the kidnapping. In a murder, the rape could be the motive for the murder because the perp might not want to get told on. A rape could strenghten a kidnapping or other major crime case. Also rape is a very emotional crime, not just for the victim, but also for the jury.
So even though a DA might leave off lesser crimes from a charging document, they will almost always file the rape.
In this case, they had three other missing people, and evidently didn't have enough evidence to charge him with those. But they definately wanted to keep him in jail and not out on bail. So they wouldn't have refused to file any major crimes on him and take a chance on him getting a low bail.
crocus
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2005
- Messages
- 2,425
- Reaction score
- 5
Could not get the images of today out of my mind.........still awake.
Sungirl - thank you for your thanks! But - it's not me, but my very dear friend Amandareckonwith who compiles these cases in photobucket. She is one very caring, dedicated person who gathers everything she can from a given case to have it available in one site. Such a great service - especially when looking for past articles, photos or videos.
I have a feeling he may have been "rebuffed" by one of the two moms in the past. Maybe mh had crossed paths with either one of them at some point, or a few points, in the past few years since he got out of prison and moved back to Ohio. One of the WS posters in the beginning had a really good question about mh keeping in touch with people he may have had contact with while in jail (not family, I took that to mean), can't remember who it was to pull it forward, but it was a great question! Perhaps mh actually met Stephanie if they were both at the Knox Career Center, or through the connection with both of them having been there at one time. Or, he could have met either one of them through working out and/or going to a tanning salon. He doesn't strike me as the type to go to a tanning salon, although tanning and working out can, and do, go together often.
Not sure how it is in Ohio in a small town like those in Knox County, but if it's like the small town I live in people do get to know each other over time, and it is hard to keep anything under wraps for long, it seems everyone knows your business, even if you don't want them to. In the west folks are generally more open and the Amish influence in that part of the country seems to be more reticent to sharing things - no value judgment intended, merely a difference in modern, country life. Is that an oxymoron?
Maybe we are back to the coveting and wanting to control factor. We know mh has big issues in wanting to control...what...everything he can? What if mh had watched this family for awhile and felt like he had better solutions than what he was "seeing" happen to them? Faced with his own life falling apart and seeing an opportune moment (Tina and fiancee/bf going through breaking up, family ) i.e. changes happening (leaves, fall, preteen girl) he had thought he had a better plan to solve everything? It was the wrong plan of course. Just trying to understand... I
SmoothOperator
Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that ther
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2010
- Messages
- 5,591
- Reaction score
- 76
I had just a couple questions... Does anyone have any idea what possibly led LE to the HOffman home on Sunday morning where they located SM bound and gagged in the basement?...With them saying there really is no identifying or obvious link to Hoffman and this family..well, I just wonder then what would led them there??
And even more suspicious they state in the article that tho they were hoping to find more than they did{i.e. hoping all 4 missing were there in that home} but were led to believe that it would be SM that they only found in the home..which as we know is exactly how things played out..How, what, when, who was what gave LE this info? Especially someone that would know that most likely it would be 13yr old SM that would be found in the Hoffman home???
here's article and link..
~snip
“We were hopeful that we would find more than one” of the missing people in Hoffman’s house, Barber said. “Our information was definite that it was most likely that Sarah was going to be in that house.” ~end snip
http://usspost.com/sarah-maynard-22457/
Then another issue that I am baffled and confused by is that the very day they were last seen&kids last attended school it was upon Hermann not showing for work{that day}@DQ she was reported missing and in LE going to the Hermann home{where mom, Kody&Sarah lived& at time of kidnapping fam friend Sprang was at that home as well} they saw that there was blood splatter throughout the residence along with finding Hermann's{the mom and homeowner} truck parked still in the driveway..
Then the truck of Tina Hermann's that was parked in the drive way of her home when LE arrived at the home to investigate and found the family missing and blood splatter..
This truck belonging to Hermann that was seen by LE in the Hermann residence driveway was found parked and abandoned on the college parking lot{a few miles from the Hermann residence where it was seen by LE on Weds}
So WTH? WHo , why, and when did the moving of this truck? Hoffman returned to the scene of where he more than likely murdered the trio and kidnapped SM and for what reason would he have taken the truck and parked it a few miles from the home on a college campus... I am really confused..and no one saw this guy do this? was the home not marked off as a crime scene with it secured? How was he to have gotten in to retrieve the truck keys and left in the truck unnoticed?..And why???
And even more suspicious they state in the article that tho they were hoping to find more than they did{i.e. hoping all 4 missing were there in that home} but were led to believe that it would be SM that they only found in the home..which as we know is exactly how things played out..How, what, when, who was what gave LE this info? Especially someone that would know that most likely it would be 13yr old SM that would be found in the Hoffman home???
here's article and link..
~snip
“We were hopeful that we would find more than one” of the missing people in Hoffman’s house, Barber said. “Our information was definite that it was most likely that Sarah was going to be in that house.” ~end snip
http://usspost.com/sarah-maynard-22457/
Then another issue that I am baffled and confused by is that the very day they were last seen&kids last attended school it was upon Hermann not showing for work{that day}@DQ she was reported missing and in LE going to the Hermann home{where mom, Kody&Sarah lived& at time of kidnapping fam friend Sprang was at that home as well} they saw that there was blood splatter throughout the residence along with finding Hermann's{the mom and homeowner} truck parked still in the driveway..
Then the truck of Tina Hermann's that was parked in the drive way of her home when LE arrived at the home to investigate and found the family missing and blood splatter..
This truck belonging to Hermann that was seen by LE in the Hermann residence driveway was found parked and abandoned on the college parking lot{a few miles from the Hermann residence where it was seen by LE on Weds}
So WTH? WHo , why, and when did the moving of this truck? Hoffman returned to the scene of where he more than likely murdered the trio and kidnapped SM and for what reason would he have taken the truck and parked it a few miles from the home on a college campus... I am really confused..and no one saw this guy do this? was the home not marked off as a crime scene with it secured? How was he to have gotten in to retrieve the truck keys and left in the truck unnoticed?..And why???
ThoughtFox
Expecting the Unexpected
And okay, I admit I've been out of the loop and away from TV and the Internet for quite a few hours (I went to see the midnight showing of Harry Potter tonight) but I've been reading posts for thirty minutes, both beginnings and endings of threads, and no one has posted a link to the basic news story of what happened to these people.
So for anyone else who is as lost as I am . . .
Ohio Family Kidnapping Ends with Grisly Discovery
Bodies of Three Missing Ohioans Found Stuffed in a Hollow Tree
If it’s true or the outcome is that LE had to make a deal with MH (DP off the table) for MH to reveal the location of the bodies
He will still be in prison for life - no parole.
While this sounds to good for him and it is, most prisons that have DP wings, DP inmates are usually treated better than general population. At least they are here. They are allowed privileges that other inmates do not get. Also they are allowed years and years of appeals. Our last DP case had been in our prison for 27 years!!! That is 27 years of better treatment than general population. The DP’s are kept isolated and secure, away from GP.. And it costs the State a fortune to house them.
If he goes to General Population as a lifer, with this crime….. Remember Jeffery Dahmer (and others) killed in prison by another inmate. There will be someone in GP that will likely take him out. He will live in fear, and be shunned, and abused, by other inmates, making his life (or what’s left of it) living he!!.
Worst case scenario, is that he would be allowed to go to a mental ward but, insanity pleas are the most difficult to get. And he was able to maintain, somewhat of a normal life, so I don’t think it could go there, he can not be proved mentally incompetent..
His first conviction of arson, and no telling what all else is in his past, all the way from a juvenal record, will be doing him no favors either.
It will be one very difficult time for him being shoved into a block of raucous cons. They’ll fix him up!
He will still be in prison for life - no parole.
While this sounds to good for him and it is, most prisons that have DP wings, DP inmates are usually treated better than general population. At least they are here. They are allowed privileges that other inmates do not get. Also they are allowed years and years of appeals. Our last DP case had been in our prison for 27 years!!! That is 27 years of better treatment than general population. The DP’s are kept isolated and secure, away from GP.. And it costs the State a fortune to house them.
If he goes to General Population as a lifer, with this crime….. Remember Jeffery Dahmer (and others) killed in prison by another inmate. There will be someone in GP that will likely take him out. He will live in fear, and be shunned, and abused, by other inmates, making his life (or what’s left of it) living he!!.
Worst case scenario, is that he would be allowed to go to a mental ward but, insanity pleas are the most difficult to get. And he was able to maintain, somewhat of a normal life, so I don’t think it could go there, he can not be proved mentally incompetent..
His first conviction of arson, and no telling what all else is in his past, all the way from a juvenal record, will be doing him no favors either.
It will be one very difficult time for him being shoved into a block of raucous cons. They’ll fix him up!
- Status