OR - Alaska Airlines flight diverted after off-duty pilot tries "to shut the engines down" in cockpit, audio reveals

[Seattle1]

I'd be curious to know why he hadn't slept in 40 hours which isn't a typical or safe thing for humans and why, being an employed, current pilot he would take the risk of taking psilocybin which is not legal in Washington and would show up on the drug tests flight crews take randomly and regularly. His story isn't passing the smell test for me.

I'd wager my residence not sleeping for 40 hours wasn't by choice.

Emerson was a 20+ year aviation veteran which means he's from the old school where he knows taking sleep Rx or even depression Rx and reporting this to their AME is career suicide -- regardless if it's not supposed to be.

<modsnip - quoted post was not an approved source>

He'd been depressed over the death of a friend and didn't find a healthy way to deal with it. At his age, it may have been his first loss. IMO, he kept waiting to feel better which is a common mistake. Add his gender and occupation, and his problem was compounded that much more. MOO

 

[303gmf]

There is legitimate research being done into using psilocybin for treatment-refractory depression, but it's only used in carefully controlled situations. As for him claiming not to have slept for 40 hours, someone on another website said that sounded to him like he had flipped over into a manic phase.

This is insane (no pun intended).

Micro dosing is the treatment research with newly opened centers focusing on guidance and safety.

If he ate shrooms and still high 40 hours later (not believable )
He had to have eaten an extra large amount, but I’m suspecting alcohol and Ambien and some bizarre story of his night on Seattle

 

[Herat]

Mushrooms are not typically present on most ER toxicology screen panels. Most are oriented towards amphetamines, cocaine, opiates, THC and barbiturates in a 5-panel test. Some 10-panel tests may include LSD, or maybe PCP, but not usually psylocybin or mescaline. The test panel composition may change, depending on predominance of drug usage. Many panels had dropped PCP because it went out of style and the overwhelming use of meth and fentanyl was apparent.

Undoubtedly, more panels will start to include hallucinogens, but the hallucinogen group contains more chemicals and metabolites, and will require more sophisticated, and therefore, expensive, testing.

Do shrooms show up on a drug test?

Shrooms may show up on specific drug tests designed for hallucinogens, but many common drug tests do not test for these compounds. Learn more.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[gitana1]

Been wanting to say: that's an interesting photo. moo


JUST IN: Alaska Airlines pilot Joseph Emerson is now charged in FEDERAL court with interfering with a flight crew. Docs say as he lunged for the engine fire handles, he said "I'm not okay."He told police he hadn't slept in 40 hours, was depressed, and admitted to "what I did."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1716889354780704868

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Ah. Ok. That can result in a lengthy prison term. Which I think is merited.

I feel for him but to take mushrooms before a flight, knowing you’re fighting depression, and then getting into the cockpit in that condition, the public needs to be made safe from that type of thing.

 

[gitana1]

An honest answer to a simple question: 78% of pilots worry about seeking medical care because it may impact their careers. That leaves very few pilots-- about 22% that will seek treatment.

It’s a catch-22. Because I don’t think anyone with any kind of mental health issue or neurological issue should be flying passenger planes. Not if they have a history nor later develop an issue. It’s a high pressure job where the stakes are high. So what to do?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It’s a catch-22. Because I don’t think anyone with any kind of mental health issue or neurological issue should be flying passenger planes. Not if they have a history nor later develop an issue. It’s a high pressure job where the stakes are high. So what to do?

Most people with mental health issues will not be suicidal or psychotic or manic, nor will they be a danger to the people they're flying or caring for. IMO, it's not those with treated mental health issues we should fear. It's those with untreated/undisclosed mental health issues. Why we would want to perpetuate the latter is beyond me.

 

[gitana1]

Most people with mental health issues will not be suicidal or psychotic or manic, nor will they be a danger to the people they're flying or caring for. IMO, it's not those with treated mental health issues we should fear. It's those with untreated/undisclosed mental health issues. Why we would want to perpetuate the latter is beyond me.

True. But most people with mental health issues aren’t coping with a job where the stakes are that high and the pressure is that intense. Because that kind of job will exacerbate any issues.

Take the Navy Seals. Most don’t pass the rigorous training and that’s by design. Because someone has to be exceedingly stable to be able to do the job successfully.

I believe the same is true for pilots when it comes to having passengers.

But the bottom line is it is their duty to seek treatment even if that means they will lose their jobs. Because they should not be working the job anymore. Get disability and move on to something else. Like teaching flight school.

 

[UnderSea]

It’s a catch-22. Because I don’t think anyone with any kind of mental health issue or neurological issue should be flying passenger planes. Not if they have a history nor later develop an issue. It’s a high pressure job where the stakes are high. So what to do?

The pilot I know is familiar with other careful, competent pilots who go through a rough patch of anxiety or situational depression, for example, when a child is sick or a loved one is dying and feel they cannot go to a therapist to help them work through these not unusual situations. This is not people who are bipolar or suffering major depression or out of touch with reality or using drugs, but people going through the unavoidable stresses of life in combination with a very stressful job. Of course pilots with mental or physical illness that endangers the lives onboard should not be flying, but those who need help for dips into situational illness should not risk losing their jobs in order to get help. Or have to pay for therapists out of pocket rather than use insurance in order to maintain their privacy. Perhaps a working solution would be airline-approved regular visits to promote mental health and to assist pilots who hit those speed bumps that appear in life. To normalize the need for support from time to time, rather than penalize people for it.

None of this has much to do with the pilot who committed these crimes, of course. Taking mushrooms for any reason, including self treating depression, or possibly working after not sleeping for two days is more than adequate reason to be grounded.

 

[ConundrumPonderer]

I never foresaw reading a thread here on WS and imagining DB Cooper (Dan, to be WS accurate) standing watching this saying “Dude, WTH?”.
Uh, MOO just for the record!
Edit for bad grammar in my own joke!

 

[Marysmith]

Most people with mental health issues will not be suicidal or psychotic or manic, nor will they be a danger to the people they're flying or caring for. IMO, it's not those with treated mental health issues we should fear. It's those with untreated/undisclosed mental health issues. Why we would want to perpetuate the latter is beyond me.

Absolutely!! Well said.
Mental health is a continuum - for *every* human.
That being said he deserves to be charged criminally for this 100%. This is way beyond feeling down.

 

[LadyL]

Yeah, the language in the AA doesn't make the bolded any clearer.

The AA states: "EMERSON denied taking any medication, but he stated that approximately six months ago he became depressed. The officer and EMERSON talked about the use of psychedelic mushrooms and EMERSON said it was his first-time taking mushrooms."

"It was his first time" when? Five minutes before the flight? Six months ago when he became depressed? It kinda matters in this situation.

it was mentioned that he took mushrooms 48 hours before the flight:

Pleasant Hill pilot charged with attempted murder used mushrooms, admitted to nervous breakdown

In court documents also filed Tuesday by the Multnomah County District Attorney in Oregon, Emerson clarified that he had also taken psychedelic mushrooms for the first time 48 hours before boarding the plane. The effects of mushrooms wear off in roughly 24 hours, experts say.

 

[gitana1]

The pilot I know is familiar with other careful, competent pilots who go through a rough patch of anxiety or situational depression, for example, when a child is sick or a loved one is dying and feel they cannot go to a therapist to help them work through these not unusual situations. This is not people who are bipolar or suffering major depression or out of touch with reality or using drugs, but people going through the unavoidable stresses of life in combination with a very stressful job. Of course pilots with mental or physical illness that endangers the lives onboard should not be flying, but those who need help for dips into situational illness should not risk losing their jobs in order to get help. Or have to pay for therapists out of pocket rather than use insurance in order to maintain their privacy. Perhaps a working solution would be airline-approved regular visits to promote mental health and to assist pilots who hit those speed bumps that appear in life. To normalize the need for support from time to time, rather than penalize people for it.

None of this has much to do with the pilot who committed these crimes, of course. Taking mushrooms for any reason, including self treating depression, or possibly working after not sleeping for two days is more than adequate reason to be grounded.

Yeah. That makes sense. All of your post.

 

[Breezie]

Off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot accused of trying to shut engines had "soul-chilling" look, passenger says

Veteran pilot Joseph Emerson, 44, was charged with more than 80 counts of attempted murder after, authorities said, he tried to cut the plane's engines during the flight.

www.nbcnews.com

The psychoactive experience associated with the psychedelic mushrooms is said to normally last four to six hours, sometimes eight, but it often depends on dosage, according to experts.

A psychedelic drug researcher, Dr. Charles Grob, the director of child and adolescent psychiatry at Harbor–UCLA Medical Center, said it was possible the effects of psilocybin could last for days after ingestion under certain conditions.

"I wouldn't doubt that psilocybin mushrooms could have had residual effects even 48 hours after ingestion, especially if he took a large dose and was without any effective supervision, preparation, oversight or follow-up integration," Grob said.

 

[Marysmith]

it was mentioned that he took mushrooms 48 hours before the flight:

Pleasant Hill pilot charged with attempted murder used mushrooms, admitted to nervous breakdown

In court documents also filed Tuesday by the Multnomah County District Attorney in Oregon, Emerson clarified that he had also taken psychedelic mushrooms for the first time 48 hours before boarding the plane. The effects of mushrooms wear off in roughly 24 hours, experts say.

Yeah I don’t believe the 48 hours either. It makes no sense. And when did he last fly and work? I assume it was recently as he doesn’t live in Seattle.

 

[LadyL]

I think he was still under the influence. On top of not sleeping.


In some individuals, changes in sensory perception and thought patterns can last for several days.

The effects of psilocybin are generally similar to those of LSD. They include altered perception of time and space and intense changes in mood and feeling.

Other possible effects of psilocybin include:

• euphoria
• peacefulness
• spiritual awakening
• derealization, or the feeling that surroundings are not real
• depersonalization, or a dream-like sense of being disengaged from surroundings
• distorted thinking
• visual alteration and distortion, such as seeing halos of light and vivid colors
• dilated pupils
• dizziness
• drowsiness and yawning
• impaired concentration
• muscle weakness
• lack of coordination
• unusual body sensations
• nausea and vomiting
• paranoia
• confusion
• frightening hallucinations

Psilocybin and magic mushrooms

Psilocybin is a hallucinogenic substance in certain types of mushrooms, commonly referred to as 'magic mushrooms.' Learn more about psilocybin here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[LadyL]

Yeah I don’t believe the 48 hours either. It makes no sense. And when did he last fly and work? I assume it was recently as he doesn’t live in Seattle.

I don't follow
why does it make no sense to you?

 

[iamshadow21]

I think he was still under the influence. On top of not sleeping.


In some individuals, changes in sensory perception and thought patterns can last for several days.

The effects of psilocybin are generally similar to those of LSD. They include altered perception of time and space and intense changes in mood and feeling.

Other possible effects of psilocybin include:

• euphoria
• peacefulness
• spiritual awakening
• derealization, or the feeling that surroundings are not real
• depersonalization, or a dream-like sense of being disengaged from surroundings
• distorted thinking
• visual alteration and distortion, such as seeing halos of light and vivid colors
• dilated pupils
• dizziness
• drowsiness and yawning
• impaired concentration
• muscle weakness
• lack of coordination
• unusual body sensations
• nausea and vomiting
• paranoia
• confusion
• frightening hallucinations

Psilocybin and magic mushrooms

Psilocybin is a hallucinogenic substance in certain types of mushrooms, commonly referred to as 'magic mushrooms.' Learn more about psilocybin here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

I'm not saying his claims of being intoxicated are legit, but the things he was saying smack of classic derealisation. I say that not as someone who has ever taken illicit drugs, but as someone with a dissociative disorder who has also had a longrunning negative reaction to an SNRI twenty years ago which dialled up the derealisation I experienced to eleven.

The whole wanting to wake up from a dream thing.

But also, the making efforts to down the plane, combined with the relatively easy takedown by the pilots and flight attendants, and him asking to be put in handcuffs. It's weird, and makes me think there is going to be a competency assessment at the very least.

MOO

 

[Marysmith]

I don't follow
why does it make no sense to you?

IMO there is much more of a cause than just taking shrooms 48 hours prior.
Again when did he last work?, etc..

 

[LadyL]

IMO there is much more of a cause than just taking shrooms 48 hours prior.
Again when did he last work?, etc..

such as? I'm really not sure what you're getting at
not sleeping, mushrooms, and a possible underlying mental illness are plenty of cause IMO
I don't know when he worked last - are you implying that has something to do with his breakdown?

 

[Seattle1]

Off-duty pilot tries to shut engines off during flight, how serious was it?​

Oct 24, 2023 #nyc #crime #travel
Eyewitness News John DelGiorno talks about how serious the situation was.