OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #11

[pdx]

The reasoning they have given for using a church sounded strange, and I think you just hit the nail on the head. They can control the media this way; or they can attempt to. I wonder if this is even Constitutional?

What reasoning sounded strange to you? There aren't any other structures up at that location, other than the school. Do you want the media running in and out of this (supposedly) locked down school?

Control the media? What evidence do we have of that? We have our suspicions, but clearly the media has bought into whatever reason LE has for asking them to back off some.
(and if you think government doesn't manipulate the media, well, you should go do some sleuthing of that, altho it might be upsetting!)

Constitutional? Sorry, but where are you going with that?

They are most definitely not allowing thoughtful questions. I'm surprised they let the one in about the Horman's going to the gym; but, by their ridiculous answer, it sounds like they were attempting damage control.

WHY is this family being treated with kid gloves, being protected by the police,

Because they know something, multiple somethings, that you and I do not? Why are you so suspicious of LE's answers and characterize it as damage control?

 

[gibby207]

The job of the police liason is to coordinate communication between the family and the investigators. Nothing more. It is not their job to run interference between the public (family) and the press, or to be image consultants. If the family wants that, they need to hire a press agency and a spokesperson.

I know this because I was a victim advocate for years.

I DO wonder if they are taking this a lil' more personally as, you know, LE/LE connection with the stepdad. I dunno... just a thought...

 

[daisy7]

It sounds like he is too close to the family to me too.

I'm not sure why him being close to the family would be considered a bad thing? :waitasec:

 

[raeann]

I am thinking the child is correct about the day - I just think he referred to a parent volunteer as a sub. It was stated earlier on that the groups would be headed by a parent volunteer.

This is the logical idea, as Kyron's SM was BOTH a volunteer and a sub at the school. I have been both a volunteer and a substitute at my kids elementary school, as have quite a few of the other moms at the same school.

jmoo

 

[seeking truth]

Is that a problem? I think that is standard so I am confused as to the "too close"?? Sheriff Carona practically adopted Samantha Runnion and took her murder in the most personal way.

I see it as a problem IF the officer does not remain objective and it turns out that one of the family members is guilty. Will the officer see it? Will the investigation be unbiased?

Also, all the protecting of the family and the excuses for them will be frowned upon even more, possibly damaging the case in the future, should it turn out that some of the investigators have not looked right under their noses, their vision clouded by their compassion.(I am not in any way saying that compassion isn't a good thing, an important and essential human trait. It just needs to be tempered in a situation like this, or important clues during conversations and within the household could be missed, should there be something there that leads to answers for Kyron.)

Just my opinions.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thanks for the correction, BeanE! I'm going to post the link:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/n...d-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx?rss=1100

It is a statement from a school official. NOT LE! That was my bad!! It does confirm there were no substitutes on the grounds that day.

I have not read anything to say there were volunteers at the school that day, but it is not unreasonable to think that there were volunteers.....nor is it unreasonable to think that a second grader would assume that a classroom volunteer was a substitute, except if his actual teacher remained in the classroom all day. That didn't explain my thoughts well, let me try again.

I was Class Mom for a fourth grade class one year. When the teacher had to "step out" for a short time, such as to judge projects in a science fair, I sat with the class during her absence. The teacher never left the school grounds, I was not paid to sit with the class, and all the students knew I was a mom.......but those kids were two years more school savvy than 2nd graders!

As class mom, I also accompanied the students and teachers on occasion---to the gym to see older student's science fair projects, or on field trips. In both of those situations, I was expected to help the teacher keep a head count of students. I do believe this child when he says he saw Kyron---he has multiple witnesses to verify that Kyron was indeed at school that morning. I also believe that the child could have overheard a volunteer saying "We're missing Kyron."

While semantics may not be important, I do think if a volunteer told the teacher a child hadn't returned to the classroom, it is "possible" the teacher did not pay as much attention to her as she would have to another paid teacher----regardless, we do know that there was no actual substitue in the classroom that day, and so far, we don't know (at least I don't!) that there were unpaid volunteers in the classroom.

You must be in a small district or that may have been a few years ago because now - with the liability laws and situations such as we have right here, the teacher that would "step out" and leave you there wouldn't be teaching in this district too much longer. We even have "classifications of paras" here. A teacher's aide CANNOT be left alone with children but a teacher's assistant can.

The comment from the SAR lady - "well we know where he isn't" - but then didn't she go on to say that they may search an area up to three times? Ground, dogs, ground again, air..... So why keep going over areas where he isn't then?

 

[Emma Peel]

Why wouldn't someone let LE search their property?

1.I live in the country in another state. We have the "property rights" people here who I believe would not allow it under principle. Not all, but I bet a lot would have that reaction.

2. Govt and LE paranoids-like the people who will not fill out the census forms.

3. People who are concealing criminal activity. Drugs, burglary items, other things?

4. People who are just plain anti-social and don't care about anyone or anything but themselves.

5. They have Kyron.

6. Because their house is a mess 'cause they've been on Kyron's thread for a week. :doh:

 

[Cher352]

How do you guys keep up?

Long time ago I followed WS when the Tacoma husband disappeared and because the WS were right about his disappearance from the beginning ( he abaddoned his family, changed his name and is now somewhere in Calif)

So I started to follow this thread again since this is a local story for me

But whenever I leave for 2-3 hours there are additonal 10 pages to go through.

So I was wondering if there is a way to weed through and just pick up most basic new info

Thanx in advance

I don't post much either but have so many threads I try to follow. One thing that works well for me is to only read every other page or other 3rd page when I am way behind because most times if it is something important it will be included in the quotes from the previous pages. This way you can skip all the chatter that tends to make these threads so long. (no offense meant)

 

[CharlestonGal]

I DO wonder if they are taking this a lil' more personally as, you know, LE/LE connection with the stepdad. I dunno... just a thought...

Gosh, I better run right out and marry a police officer before something happens to one of my family members then.

Not sniping at you, Gibby, but that's just irritating if it's true.

 

[JBean]

It's disturbing and uncomfortable. That's why there are open door laws on public meetings. It's to keep people in control honest and on the up and up. Alot of people slam the media, but the media serves a purpose as well.

Suzi can you help me here? I am so lost as to what you guys are struggling with. I am unclear as to what you are referring to. It is going right over my head.

 

[Amster]

Perhaps because the more people become obsessed with the witchhunt of the stepmom, the less attention they'll pay to other people and other events and other memories and other information that could lead to finding Kyron, and it thereby impacts the chances and speed with which Kyron can be rescued.

Time is running out. Kyron's time. They need people to think of everything and everybody and every place to try to find some lead.

Witchunt? If LE wants the focus taken off the SM because it's impeding the search for Kyron.....then it's really very simple. Don't even need a presser....just release a statement saying the SM had absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of Kyron. Until they do, I see no reason not to suspect everyone who had contact with Kyron.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I see it as a problem IF the officer does not remain objective and it turns out that one of the family members is guilty. Will the officer see it? Will the investigation be unbiased?

Also, all the protecting of the family and the excuses for them will be frowned upon even more, possibly damaging the case in the future, should it turn out that some of the investigators have not looked right under their noses, their vision clouded by their compassion.(I am not in any way saying that compassion isn't a good thing, an important and essential human trait. It just needs to be tempered in a situation like this, or important clues during conversations and within the household could be missed, should there be something there that leads to answers for Kyron.)

Just my opinions.

I couldn't agree with you more. Once objectivity is lost, sound reason goes as well. I was in the mental health/victim advocate field for over two decades and that concept is drilled into your head every day. DO NOT GET PERSONALLY OR EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED. Period. It makes you lose your objectivity and you simply cannot perform your job at 100% effectiveness.

 

[seeking truth]

How do you guys keep up?

Long time ago I followed WS when the Tacoma husband disappeared and because the WS were right about his disappearance from the beginning ( he abaddoned his family, changed his name and is now somewhere in Calif)

So I started to follow this thread again since this is a local story for me

But whenever I leave for 2-3 hours there are additonal 10 pages to go through.

So I was wondering if there is a way to weed through and just pick up most basic new info

Thanx in advance

Is there anything in particular you are wondering about, Katarina? (I realize it's hard to ask about something you aren't aware of :waitasec!

Have you watched the press conferences from Wednesday, Friday, and today?

The police are not telling the public anything, really and no "hard" questions are being allowed during press conferences.

 

[tfrohning]

Most interesting part to me...

"yes, some people have refused to let us search their property"

that just psssssssssss off. the same in Haleigh's case too.:banghead:

I than think a search warrant should be issu....they never should be a refusel
when a child is missing:furious:

 

[pdx]

Suzi can you help me here? I am so lost as to what you guys are struggling with. I am unclear as to what you are referring to. It is going right over my head.

I want to hitchike off that thought too..

The idea that the media is working under any guidelines from LE or the family is disturbing.

The media can dig all they want.. they ARE asking the questions we all have, but the information isn't public record. LE doesn't have to tell you or me or the media ANYthing.
And LE has made that clear. They will release information when they decide it will be beneficial (their word) to the case.

There isn't anything for the media to do but what we are doing.. snoop people's information, speculate etc. For some reason, criticism and speculation about the family has been suppressed, but that could easily be a corporate decision from the media itself. A bit of backlash against the ghoulish behavior that has become 'normal'.

They/LE don't owe us anything. They don't even have to tell us the truth, and the Supreme Court has said so (now please don't make me go dig up that link, cause that's in a whole other place! )

 

[JBean]

Police should always be professional and courteous when dealing with the public. But their job is to remain objective, maintain law and order, and investigate crimes. They are not social workers or victim advocates, nor should they try to be. There job is to INVESTIGATE, not sit around and pat people on the shoulder saying "there-there, honey" and protect them from legitimate questions from the press.

LOL at a press conference? these people are not obligated to answer any questions from anyone. They are probably doing it an the urging of those in the know that are telling them to put themselves out there for Kyron. A press conference is not a deposition or a trial or required.
I have seen so many PC's where the police take the murder or crime very personally and seriously and protect the families from the media at all costs. I cannot imagine why any of us would think it necessary or expected for these people to lay themselves out there for public scrutiny.

If LE does suspect them then we need to follow their lead for now.

JMHO

 

[CharlestonGal]

Witchunt? If LE wants the focus taken off the SM because it's impeding the search for Kyron.....then it's really very simple. Don't even need a presser....just release a statement saying the SM had absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of Kyron. Until they do, I see no reason not to suspect everyone who had contact with Kyron.

That does seem the most effective solution. A simple statement that all family members have been cleared in any involvement in the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Would take 5 seconds. End of problem.

 

[nomoresorrow]

1)*Published June 04, 2010;

According to Matt Shelby, spokesman for Portland Public Schools:
He was last seen about 9 a.m. Kyron, who was with his stepmother at the fair that morning, never checked back in with his teacher afterward, Shelby said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/police_looking_for_missing_por.html

2)*Published June 05, 2010;

Instead of taking the bus near his home off Cornelius Pass Road as usual, he hopped into the car with his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, who drove him to Skyline Elementary School. They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

3)*Published Jun 5, 2010;

Friday morning when Kyron's step mom says she last saw the boy after taking him through a science fair at school and sent him off to class. His teachers say he never checked in.

http://www.katu.com/news/95702034.html

4)*Published June 07 2010;

Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his stepmother and thought the two left school together.

http://arklatexhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=109355

5)*Published June 07, 2010;

"We definitely got a late start here," sheriff's spokeswoman Lt. Mary Lindstrand said Saturday. "The family didn't know that he wasn't at school, his teacher didn't see him, so we are feeling like we are behind the eight-ball here."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20391927,00.html


I'm sorry but, in my personal opinion, the school (teachers and administration) were trying to cover their butts from day one and, to be honest, I'm not so sure that Kyron's little classmate is "getting his days mixed up." (Refer to #4 above) I think the school was trying to distance themselves from Kyron and their responsibility for his safety that morning/day while at the same time trying to keep up a favorable public appearance. The problem is that by doing so, they've in essence cast a disparaging light upon the SM. I suppose if it means saving one's job and/or $$$ in a lawsuit, perhaps they can live with it just fine. My biggest issue with it - IF THIS IS THE CASE - is that it creates serious problems with/in an investigation and primarily the search for Kyron! If I'm correct I do hope they realize that in the short term it may save someone's job but the truth will inevitably come out. When it does, not only will someone(s) lose their job(s) but they will lose any and all care and respect that anyone within their community ever had for them. JMHO ~

 

[MsFacetious]

6. Because their house is a mess 'cause they've been on Kyron's thread for a week. :doh:

I just have to hope and pray no kids ever go missing in my area. I could never and would never deny LE entry to search my house... but it would take them hours.

3800 square feet... 3 rooms are only storage with the big bins that are all big enough to hold a kid. We have an attic and 2 separate crawl spaces. Then, we are on an acre of property that has a garage, horse pasture, a well and a 3,000 square foot, 2 story work shop. There are 12 vehicles on our property that may or may not run. In addition to 4 trailers.

Wow, it really would take them hours. I so need to move.... :waitasec:

I also don't think they can get a warrant to search someone's property just because they say no. They have to have reason to believe he is there.

 

[TripleA]

Since there seems to be no new info, I will share my experience from my daughter's school "carnival" day yesterday. I was extra observant given Kyron's disappearance from school.

Adults walked in and out of the school freely from all doors. Some signed in, as I did, but most just came and went as they pleased. My daughter's 1st grade teacher gave me responsibility for four children, including my own. I know these kids only by first name, and they know me only as "A's Mom". I took these kids all over the back grounds of the school. I could have easily put them in my truck and left and noone would have noticed for hours. I even signed my daughter out for 3 o'clock at 1 o'clock in the afternoon. Around 2pm I saw a little boy fall by the water hose and hit his hip on the pavement. A teacher who was running the hose told him to go to the nurse with his "buddy". The boys had to be 5yo and seemed scared/injured/nervous/uncertain so I offered to take them inside. She never asked me my name, who I was, or anything, just let me take them. I walked the boys, along with my four charges, to the nurse's office and explained what happened. I could have stolen those boys along with the four I already had, but instead, since I am not some crazed lunatic, I left and took my four back outside to play. Most of the kids were unsupervised by any adult specifically. They just ran around from station to station as they pleased. School is K-3 but there were many older siblings at the event as well.

Had I not been there, my 7yo daughter would have been supervised by a stranger. If she had been injured, she would have been taken to the nurse by a stranger. If that stranger wanted to steal her, she/he could have without anyone even wondering where she went. Actually at one point I walked by a classroom where a baby in a stroller was outside in the hall completely unsupervised. I could have stolen her too if I wanted. My truck only seats eight though, so that would have been my limit for the day.

Needless to say, I was appalled by the scenario, completely appalled! I am a hover-mother, so I am at almost every event. After yesterday, I most definitely will be at every event until she is at least 30yo.