OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #12

[winterrose]

I think they have a clue... everything seems to be moving north from the school toward Sauvie Island.

Women usually dump in water, don't they?

Statistics would say that someone close to the child did this, and if a woman, the child would be found in the water. I think men more frequently discard wherever is convenient.

Sick to think about, isn't it?

I have been thinking about this and they're looking at that railroad track for clues,if they are.I wonder if water is right there around those tracks.I need to look at pic again.For some reason they've really focused on that Island.It's freaking me out.

 

[gibby207]

I think they have a clue... everything seems to be moving north from the school toward Sauvie Island.

Women usually dump in water, don't they?

Statistics would say that someone close to the child did this, and if a woman, the child would be found in the water. I think men more frequently discard wherever is convenient.

Sick to think about, isn't it?

Yeah, that's an easy place because imagine from the I-5 bridge into WA, or Astoria bridge! NOT GOOD CHOICES! lol My guess, it was the closest spot to a river. We are chock full of water out here, could be ocean too!!

I heard that too on other cases on WS, the women/water/womb thing. I have always thought water out here would be a good place to dump a body. (Yeah, I sound sick now.... lol) IN FACT! At the Portland International Raceway, there's this lil pond that NO ONE goes to, and I was there last year and said, "This would be a good place to dump a body." I was a member of WS at the time so I didn't think it was a weird thing to say, but others were taken aback, let's say. Sometimes when you sleuth too much it goes into daily lives, and it clouds your empathy a lil maybe (you know what I mean, logical thinking) and makes you say weird comments. I hope nobody ever has to have computer forensics on my puter... lol Damn WS and their sleuthin' ways...

 

[human]

Teenie-your story is horrifying!!!!!!! I cannot believe that so many people would be so incompetent.

As I said before, everyday I was a teacher, I lived in terror that something would happen to one of my students for any number of reasons.

But honestly, some of my fellow educators do not take safety as seriously as I do. Because of this, I have had some very firm discussions with some educators.

But there needs to be a national safety policy I feel, that is demanded of educators every year.

Every teacher gets it every year.

We get mandated reporting every year and body fluids every year. We get CPR and First Aid as well, but I think it's every other year.

But this is my school district.

Safety should be a US law such as No Child Left Behind or PL 94-142, the education of special needs children.

I have to get on the horn with my legislators here. I hope others do as well.

 

[winterrose]

Oh,that must be water next to those tracks,the wire fence right there and the searcher looking inside the track.I wonder if something was found there.

 

[Auramyst]

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I keep going back to Day One and trying to flowchart this bugger, and recall one of the very first things I heard on the news, which is about the "science fair" going on and that the school could not use their normal security measures of signing people in and out because so many people were coming and going.

Screams crime of opportunity as that was most definitely not business as usual for a school. Maybe somebody who lives in that general area, or somebody from outside (or very recently moved there) who had been scoping the neighborhood, which might explain why LE is now asking for video from any business in that fairly large area, and starting with the day BEFORE Kyron went missing.

Perhaps to look for vehicles that were doing something out of the norm, like slowly dramatically or stopping near parks, playgrounds, schools or any place children are likely to frequent. Or to "follow" delivery route drivers to see who might be coming and going past Skyline Elementary around that time on a weekday morning. Perhaps to look for the mysterious white vehicle which neighbors claim they saw twice just previous to Kyron's disappearance.

Or it was somebody inside that school, whether an employee or an older student or students who could have lured Kyron away. If the latter is the case, I don't believe he will be found very far from the school. But if an outside person took him, he could be anywhere.

From the get go, his parents were all clear he is not the type to wander off, yet LE and SAR are beating the bushes primarily between the school and his home because they still have to treat that as a possibility lacking any clear evidence (eyewitness or video sighting) of an abduction.

That is also why the FBI has Kyron at least temporarily top and center on the jumping off "most wanted" page. If LE believes there is a chance he wandered off, time is VERY clearly of the essence for him, and running out quickly, unlike the other missing kids/adults whose circumstances are different. Not every one can have the top spot at the same time. They "might" be able to successfully recover this one.

If his LE stepdad has used his knowledge of the inner workings to keep this in the media and LE all over this, I surely cannot blame him. If I had a missing child and were in his shoes, I would make use of every avenue available to me and NOT take "no" for an answer.

I was in Portland Wed-Fri and I have to say I was duly impressed with the level of media coverage and just how many people and agencies were there out searching in some pretty miserable conditions, and had been at that search already for several days. Bless their souls, I hope they are successful and find Kyron, but I fear he did not come to a good end, and if taken away in a vehicle, won't likely be found within a dozen miles of the school unless it was by someone very, VERY comfortable with that area.

If the unthinkable has happened, I really hope the perp is sweating bullets about now watching a large and concerted professional search effort.

All that said, there is still a chance that because of bullying or some other "force" he left the school under his own steam and fairly quickly found himself a very lost, alone and scared little boy in what is very dense forestation/brush, and not far at all from the school.

At this juncture, I can't see any of his family being involved. Four very wrecked parents, perhaps with some unique dynamics going on amongst them, but I see nothing thus far that suggests there is a killer there, and appearances from LE that they do not believe so either.

Why they refuse to say who last saw Kyron is the thing that continues to bother me and make little sense, but I surmise it was perhaps a juvenile, and/or they felt they needed to protect this person from likely harassment. Otherwise they would have no reason to be "searching" for a live Kyron rather than "recovering" him if they believed the person who last saw him has brought him to harm.

My :twocents:

I agree completely with your thorough summary...

 

[gwenabob]

Curious... how do they move special needs children up and down stairs, or do they not do inclusion?

I guess children with special needs--classes can be moved downstairs or rearranged for that.

We're fortunate here to have mostly one-storey schools.

Good question--I am not sure. Some of the schools are one level, and the few newer ones we have do have elevators--like Forest Park. I bet they group the special needs kids at schools that can accommodate them. I attended Madison High School in NE Portland, and it was built in the late 50s and had a freight elevator. We had a disproportionate number of students in wheelchairs because of it. They just put them on the freight elevator and it worked fine.

 

[scandi]

BBM
The profile may show how the perp would act if a tale was told about him/her, however concentrating on those heavy woods and brush has been expended to areas much farther away. So, what does that tell us? lol

You live near the area scandi - don't you? What can you tell us about the area being searched called...Suave? TIA moo

Hi ya Eyes :blowkiss:

I think the profile tells them that the perp who would take Kyron {and in the way he was taken} would probably take him to a secret place in the woods that is his comfort zone and do his thing there and also leave him there in that surrounding. It is the only reason I can fathom all this concentration in the large fielded areas that border those tall forests close to the school.

Now the fact they have spread out in their ground searches tells me tips have come in from those areas. IMO

About Sauvies Island either LE thinks it could be a natural escape area from the school as it is aways away but quite close by the road and bridge over to it, OR they have someone they are looking at with connections there ~ maybe live there.

Otherwise it is beyond me. Sauvies Island is a dead end drop off point. I don't know the other ways to get on or off it - there might not be - I will go look


ETA: I remember picking strawberries all day long one summer with my 4 sisters and mom. We slaved away, were covered with juice and had eaten our fill. Driving back home we stopped at a traffic light and about fainted when we saw a lady walk across the street in a full skirt covered with bright red strawberries. OMG, We shreiked and laughed so hard at the irony of it, and still talk about it to this day! Sorry for the O/T but it does kind of give you an idea for the island. Ya Ya xox

 

[pufnstuf]

Good question--I am not sure. Some of the schools are one level, and the few newer ones we have do have elevators--like Forest Park. I bet they group the special needs kids at schools that can accommodate them. I attended Madison High School in NE Portland, and it was built in the late 50s and had a freight elevator. We had a disproportionate number of students in wheelchairs because of it. They just put them on the freight elevator and it worked fine.

That makes sense... putting children in schools that can accommodate them.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Cubby]

Hi all, I am a newbie here as well but have become so engrossed in the disappearance of Kyron. It breaks my heart to read not only about this sweet little boy, but so many sweet, innocent, babies becoming victim to tragedy. i have a lot of questions, (as I think we all do as evident by the many many posts and threads) but mostly I am here because I can relate to having my 7 year old son disappear from school. I wanted to share with all of you what happened with my kiddo because things happen so easily and quickly sometimes it is frightening. I apologize for the long post but I feel like I really need to share our story. If nothing else, for awareness.

Last September, on a Friday afternoon, I received a call at work from my husband. It was 4:30 and my youngest son who I'll refer to as "R" (age 7 - second grade) did not come home on the bus. The bus is always at our house by 4:10. Ironically, it was the first time, EVER, my oldest son rode a different bus home with a friend and was not on the bus with my youngest. It's 4:30 and my little one didn't make it home. FWIW the busses here stop at every driveway. So, I immediately called the school - praying someone would answer b/c technically school is over at 4:00 and it was a Friday afternoon afterall. The secretary answers (thankfully!) and I explain that R didn't come home on the bus and asked if he was still at school. The secretary put me on hold and came back to the line to say R was not there. I'm starting to panic a little but still in control. So with my office phone in one hand and cell in the other, I call my husband back to tell him to call the bus barn to get in touch with our bus driver. In the meantime the secretary tells me that one of the teachers saw R get on the bus. Ok, great. I'm so relieved. However, my husband calls me back to say that he just heard from the bus director that in speaking with our driver R did not get on our bus. I am still on the phone with the secretary as she had ask me to hold the line with her until my husband confirmed R being on the bus. It's now 4:45 and my son has been, in my mind, missing since 4:00 PM. I tell the secretary I'm calling 911... get this, she tried to talk me out of it!!! I told her to stay on the line with me I'm calling 911. By this point I feel utterly frantic. I have two phones to my ear, office and cell and after giving all of the details to the 911 operator... I start calling everyone I know to find out if they saw R. My husband and I spend the next 20 minutes trying to find him. By now, a co-worker of mine has offered to drive me to the school so I can keep trying to get in touch with someone, anyone, who might know where he is.

Let me tell you, I was not holding it together well at all. I literally felt like I could jump out of the car and run to the school faster. I needed to be there, NOW! I have never felt so helpless, terrified, and alone as I did that day.

Trying not to drag this out but I'm literally reliving this as I type it. You have to understand my phone was going crazy. I was on with one person and would get another call from another parent, then another then another etc., the whole way to the school. (My office was about 25 mins away with no traffic) The police asked my husband to stay at our house and they were sending someone to talk with him and they wanted someone to be home incase R decided to walk home etc., By now it is 5:00 PM and still no word. The school secretary calls me back to say they think they might have put R on the wrong bus and they are trying to verify. My co-worker had to pull the car over because I got physically ill on the way to the school. It was awful.

At 5:16 PM, I will remember that moment for the rest of my life, the 911 operator called me on my cell phone to tell me a sheriff's deputy had found R. He had been sent to the Boys and Girls Club "after school program" on a bus from our school. This program was held at another school in our district. The operator told me they would keep R there and only release him to me or my husband.

I got to the school where R was about ten minutes after getting the call and was amazed at the amount of people there. In that relatively short (although longest hour and 16 minutes of my life) multiple parents had been out looking for R, several teachers, the school safety/security officers, just so many people. Many of them were at the school waiting for me when I got there as word traveled fast in our little community of R's whereabouts once he was found.

So, in trying to conclude this super long story let me tell you the short of what happened. R's teacher, sent him to this program after receiving an email from the secretary and in her rush to read the email got my son mixed up with another student with a similar name. R didn't question it. His teacher told him I said he needed to go. AND, the real kicker? My son had never ever been to this program and so not only did she not question sending him, but the program didn't think it was odd at all that this new 7 year old would just show up out of the blue. And finally, to top it all off.... they tried to send R hom with the family they "thought" he belonged with. No paperwork, no nothing on R there but he was there playing and having a grand time for over an hour.

Sickening isn't it? So, while I have opinions on what may or may not have happened and there are so many valid points here on this forum, I just simply don't know what happened, or where Kyron may be. I pray for this little one and his family that they too will have a happy ending. The sheer terror I experienced in less than two hours was enough to last me a lifetime. I cannot imagine what his family is feeling.

But one thing is for sure, this story really hit home for me. The similarities are uncanny. Friday afternoon, doesn't come home on the bus, 7 year old, second grade boy. Also, our school although only K-6 is about the same size in total number of students as Skyline. I just wish I could do something, anything to help find Kyron. Come home sweet baby!!

Thank you for sharing this Teenie and welcome to WS.

 

[tiredblondy]

Teenie, Your story sounds all too familiar to me. I worked with the school system for 30 some years. I can say that even with the best vigilance possible emergencies arise. I will also say that the aftercare program in our school would have been on the phone immediately trying to find out where your child came from and a contact number for him.

We had several outside entrances that were locked and could only be entered with a staff key especially for programs. We were also instructed to call the office if we saw anyone roaming in the halls we did not know or did not have an ID tag. I got chewed out many times for asking people to go to the office to get one. I would rather experience that than to know I saw someone there I didn't ask about and a child ended up missing.
Even our contractors from the central office had ID tags.

It's scary now compared to when I went to school. The first time we practiced for lockdown and another for bomb scares/drills were hard. But when I had to sit and watch a video with other teachers and staff that was presented by the sheriff's dept.of a shooter in the school, then we had to go through demonstrations, deciding where in the classroom was the best place to hide the class etc and no one comes out until the blue card is slid under the door, etc...that was the day I decided I was retiring.

I'm so glad your son was safe. Welcome to Websleuths.

 

[human]

My friend's child was kidnapped many years ago never to be found. LE thought the child had been taken out of state at the time, it turns out now.

They were very open about what they were doing, I felt. ( they didn't say anything about the out of state part at the time)

Now, many years later, they feel it might have been a neighbor who did it.

Anyway, they kept searching fields side by side, planes, that kind of thing.

The parents still feel that the child (now an adult, is still alive).

I don't think people every give up hope.

LE said in the Somer case that they believed it to be an isolated incident, but in fact they didn't know.

In Kayleah's case, LE was very stingy with info, and I don't know if they have stated that it was the "boyfriend" (stalker pervert) that has been arrested.

I just think with step-dad involved as LE, that they are doing a good job. As good as can be done looking for a needle in a haystack.

When my friend's child was kidnapped, the friends searched the psychic tips. There was one that gave an address, but no such address existed.

I just pray that whoever did this gets busted and soon.

I used to believe in DP, then I changed my mind, now I am thinking, "Fry these suckers".

 

[gibby207]

ETA: I remember picking strawberries all day long one summer with my 4 sisters and mom. We slaved away, were covered with juice and had eaten our fill. Driving back home we stopped at a traffic light and about fainted when we saw a lady walk across the street in a full skirt covered with bright red strawberries. OMG, We shreiked and laughed so hard at the irony of it, and still talk about it to this day! Sorry for the O/T but it does kind of give you an idea for the island. Ya Ya xox

Edited by me, respectfully....

Everyone out here has berry-pickin' stories..... LOL I hear it from everyone! (which is nice!) I'm from the Midwest, so my stories are shucking corn (and detasseling!) and rowing beans! lol

 

[nanny2five]

Thank you Cubby for this nice new thread.

Get your tinfoil hat at the door. ;)

snipped & bbm : i am wearing my tinfoil hat, now explain this to me, is it supposed to help me keep up? :waitasec:

 

[tiredblondy]

I just pray that whoever did this gets busted and soon.

I used to believe in DP, then I changed my mind, now I am thinking, "Fry these suckers".

Or do to them what they did to the child...that's what I'd like to see!!!

 

[gibby207]

snipped & bbm : i am wearing my tinfoil hat, now explain this to me, is it supposed to help me keep up? :waitasec:

No, but it helps to join the fray of us crazies! lol

 

[gibby207]

Or do to them what they did to the child...that's what I'd like to see!!!

I'm an "eye for an eye" or drawn and quartered gal myself........

 

[human]

tiredblondy-I totally am with you on the lock down thing.

Beam me up Scotty-there is no intelligent life on this planet. That's how I am beginning to feel.

 

[No More]

snipped & bbm : i am wearing my tinfoil hat, now explain this to me, is it supposed to help me keep up? :waitasec:

it has to be Reynolds Wrap and then you need to face North with your arms up horizontally. Let us know when you're ready... ha ha

 

[gibby207]

Before I leave tonight, we had a free fishing day in WA today. My girls were going to go, all excited, and I gave them a flyer of Kyron's face. I said to them, "Look for Kyron!" One of my daughters said, "His name is Kyron? That's a cute name!" I said, "He's too old for you!!" (She's 5.) So, they are still reminded of him, and we are still trying to find you, Kyron. Sleep tight, buddy.... <3

 

[eyes4crime]

Hi ya Eyes :blowkiss:

I think the profile tells them that the perp who would take Kyron {and in the way he was taken} would probably take him to a secret place in the woods that is his comfort zone and do his thing there and also leave him there in that surrounding. It is the only reason I can fathom all this concentration in the large fielded areas that border those tall forests close to the school.

Now the fact they have spread out in their ground searches tells me tips have come in from those areas. IMO

About Sauvies Island either LE thinks it could be a natural escape area from the school as it is aways away but quite close by the road and bridge over to it, OR they have someone they are looking at with connections there ~ maybe live there.

Otherwise it is beyond me. Sauvies Island is a dead end drop off point. I don't know the other ways to get on or off it - there might not be - I will go look


ETA: I remember picking strawberries all day long one summer with my 4 sisters and mom. We slaved away, were covered with juice and had eaten our fill. Driving back home we stopped at a traffic light and about fainted when we saw a lady walk across the street in a full skirt covered with bright red strawberries. OMG, We shreiked and laughed so hard at the irony of it, and still talk about it to this day! Sorry for the O/T but it does kind of give you an idea for the island. Ya Ya xox

Right back at ya scandi - :blowkiss:
What a great memory about the strawberries, it's hysterical - :floorlaugh:

Now, back to serious stuff! Guess I'm wondering where the FBI/profilers came up with the idea Kyron was a wanderer or was so upset he would leave - he seems quite the opposite to me.

Are you suggesting a profile of this perp shows he/she needs a tidy place to commit his crime, like a safe and secure environment close by? Also, doesn't it seem like they are following cell phone pings to Sauvie Island - looking at railroad tracks for clues seems beyond ordinary to me (not at all safe and secure). Very confusing! moo