OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #14

[Sly Scorpio]

"Just a former Police Captain"? I don't mean to sound rude, but I am stunned. I would say that a former Police Captain has as much, if not more, insight and credibility as one who is still in that position.

Why would we not give credence to a Police Captain, retired or not? He has the experience and the know-how of those currently working the crime, along with more objectivity, only because he is not involved emotionally with the family.

Just my opinion

I respectfully agree. I know that if somebody said this about my father's opinion of a case, I would be offended (he was in LE over 30 years). He has been there, done that so many times and if I consulted with him on this case he could probably give me some insight too.

I don't think it was meant the way it sounded though, maybe?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Delete if this is not okay...

I want to say why I don't think SM had anything to do with his disappearance.

First she would of had to have a motive to kill this child. Even if it was an accident, when did it take place? Lets say just for the sake of argument that there was an accident, in the parking lot and she ran him over. Why not call 911, why not scream and try to save Kyron? If he was hit or killed in a manner to cause any type of trauma, where is the blood or hair evidence in the car or home? I see lots of pictures of a well fed, well clothed, happy kid and I believe she is the one taking some of the pics. I don't get a feel that she did anything to this child and covered it. She also has a 18 month old baby, so what do you do with the baby as you are doing all this cleaning covering up?

My gut tells me, a person he felt comfortable to go what he thought would be a short distance and then head back into school. JMO

Just FWIW and that outward appearances can be deceiving - Casey Anthony and the whole Anthony clan initially painted a picture of a "happy family" with all the pics and videos of a smiling, happy Caylee - swimming in the pool, playing with a birthday cake, easter baskets, nice home, child always clean and well dressed, etc. etc. etc.

That's why it was so confusing with that case (in the beginning, I might add).

So just because we have been painted a picture of a happy family - we are not privy as to what goes on behind closed doors and outward appearances are not always what they seem.

 

[raeann]

It was referred to in the media as a science fair. I did see the pic of the sign in front of the school and could you please tell me what an IB Expo means? I looked it up but couldn't find anything that made any sense.

Here is an explanation of what IB programs are:

[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS361&q=IB+programs+&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai="]IB programs - Google Search[/ame]

An early poster somewhere explained that the expo was a way to display topics the kids had studied and then chosen a specific area to do more study on their own and create a display of that topic. It is my understanding that these kinds of expos are not limited to science, but can also include social studies, history, foreign languages, etc.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

The bus arrival time at home was 3:30. The Sm was there, but there is no confirmation of whether anyone else was with her at the time.

Ok,Thank you.Where was Kyrons father?

 

[twzzlrgirl]

I really don't see any of the family being involved in this. They all seem to love Kyron very much and be devastated by his loss.

I also don't get the feeling of some total stranger just picking Kyron at random.

Kyron appears to be a bright, intelligent child who would not wander off into the woods on such an interesting day at school.

For me, that just leaves abduction by someone known to Kyron and family. This would explain LE's refusal to give out information. The release of the details of Kyron's likes and the words sent to the boy (and therefore to the perp) by the family could have been set up by LE.

Of course, I could be reading this totally wrong too. :waitasec:

Absolutely...I don't think the family had anything to do with it either. Just a gut feeling, but there is just nothing to point to that (or to think that LE thinks that either). I totally agree: it was someone Kyron would be comfortable following, not a complete stranger, but not an immediate family member, either.

I only meant that not tipping their hand gave LE an advantage in some ways, because the perp may get comfortable thinking he got away with something and make a critical error.

 

[Forensic fan]

I agree- I would feel secure having LE protection around the clock.
I hope there is a break in the case with an alive Kyron very soon.
Not knowing what happened to their child must be agonizing.

Is there a chance at all he could still be out in the woods lost? Maybe he was afraid of all the helicopters, dogs, etc. and hid or thought he would be in trouble. If he were mine, I would still be out there screaming for him. FWIW, I think HaLeigh could still be alive, but I knew Caylee was dead the first day I heard about her. Did they leave any water out there, in case he is alive? Maybe that is something else we should teach our kids, that if they ever go missing, not to be afraid that they will be punished and not to be afraid of searchers, etc.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I lied :innocent: it actually reads as follows (post 725 in Kyron scanner thread #2):


3:40 I got a call from the **** School someone forgot to take the bus

4:18 I'll take care of the school and searching area
4:18 Mom is at school right now
4:20 I have informed her that either her or the hubby need to go back home
so that we have someone to check in with. So they should be there shortly.

It didn't say dad was at school...

Ok,Thank you.Did she go home? Was someone at the house?

 

[Skully]

Just FWIW and that outward appearances can be deceiving - Casey Anthony and the whole Anthony clan initially painted a picture of a "happy family" with all the pics and videos of a smiling, happy Caylee - swimming in the pool, playing with a birthday cake, easter baskets, nice home, child always clean and well dressed, etc. etc. etc.

That's why it was so confusing with that case (in the beginning, I might add).

So just because we have been painted a picture of a happy family - we are not privy as to what goes on behind closed doors and outward appearances are not always what they seem.

Well I for one was never confused in that case, she waited 31 days to tell her mother and then her mother called 911 not KC. I don't think this is the same at all IMHO. I agree that things are not always what they seem, but I can't even begin to compare the two cases, with all do respect to your post.

 

[x_files]

Just in general, what does everyone think of missing people cases where the victim was last seen on a Friday? That was true with Nancy Moyer in WA also. I'll bet there are many more similar cases.

Does that mean the weekend is an anchor in the timeline? Does it mean the perp works M-F? Or maybe because activities and behaviors on Fridays are more spontaneous (open?) compared to other weekdays? Any other ideas? Don't know if this is worth sleuthing for Kyron or not.

I noticed the pattern also, another one not related to Kyron is around holidays Christmas (lots of hustling and bustling and chaos of shopping, Memorial Day, Labor Day).
Predators are aware of when exhausted parents are distracted. In this case Friday is distracting the kids are ready for the weekend, and an open door policy for an open event invites in anyone to the community.
I see nothing wrong signing everyone in and making a xerox copy of eveyone's ids. Less likelihood a predator would waltz in.
I'd prefer to live in an open friendly trusting community but it's no longer the 50's and crime and criminals are too savvy.
Parents are exhausted, distraction, overwhelmed, overworked and )possibly outnumbered by the predators.)
But, there is a pattern and I am glad you noticed it as well.

 

[elle1919]

Hi Elle,

this does sound familiar, but if you haven't read all 14 thread and pressers, UgH, you might want to. I am behind the SM in this case..... Anyway, I am thinking this truly is a kidnapping, but someone who knew the boy well enough to get him to just pop outside to a car, to maybe carry something in.. Glad to see ya here, starting to see familiar icons again..

Howdy Bern!

I have been here since about thread 6 or 7 and personally I believe the earliest news articles are pretty telling. I am waiting for a few rumors to be dispelled by LE before I post my feelings out of respect for the families.

I pray these families do not have to wait over a year for answers about where their precious baby has gotten to.

 

[annalyzer]

Absolutely...I don't think the family had anything to do with it either. Just a gut feeling, but there is just nothing to point to that (or to think that LE thinks that either). I totally agree: it was someone Kyron would be comfortable following, not a complete stranger, but not an immediate family member, either.

I only meant that not tipping their hand gave LE an advantage in some ways, because the perp may get comfortable thinking he got away with something and make a critical error.

Has LE cleared the parents yet and if not I wish they would.

 

[Sly Scorpio]

Also, if my child were missing, I would want 24/7 surveillance so I felt safe and also so I would know how to react if the child called or some kind of weird thing turned up like a note from an abductor. Geez, I've had surveillance before when there was a possibility that the people across the street from me were said to be hiding out a man suspected of killing his girlfriend. Turned out not to be true, but I was happy to have that police officer sitting in his car outside of my house until it all worked out.

 

[BrendaStar]

If this is an abuction, I can't seen Kyron going off with a stranger. More like he went off with someone that he knew. Were any other kids missing from class that day?

Boy, this is so sad. How can a little kid just disappear into thin air in a school setting? Even Cliff VanZandt was stumped.

 

[Skully]

Is there a chance at all he could still be out in the woods lost? Maybe he was afraid of all the helicopters, dogs, etc. and hid or thought he would be in trouble. If he were mine, I would still be out there screaming for him. FWIW, I think HaLeigh could still be alive, but I knew Caylee was dead the first day I heard about her. Did they leave any water out there, in case he is alive? Maybe that is something else we should teach our kids, that if they ever go missing, not to be afraid that they will be punished and not to be afraid of searchers, etc.

If he was in the woods, I think LE and SAR would have had some tale tale sign of it, and if he was and they didn't find him, 11 days is a long time, but not impossible, or unheard of. So the woods and hills are huge and thick and overgrown so it is possible he is lost or stuck somewhere, but the odds are not good after all this time.

 

[raeann]

I would say that whoever is innocent of the crime against Kyron would feel comforted by LE hovering around and that whoever is NOT innocent of the crime against Kyron, or has knowledge of it, would be feeling very UNCOMFORTABLE.

I realize that what I just wrote is a pretty obvious statement, but, at this point, I am unsure of exactly what we are allowed to speculate upon. LE is releasing new information. Not much, though significant.

So far LE has not refuted the report by ABC News, which states that Terri Horman, the step mother, has been identified as the LAST person to see Kyron. (I linked to this news story further up in this thread).

This is a huge admission by LE, in my opinion. Also, having LE state that they are of the belief that he did not wander off by himself, the investigation seems like they are ready to leak out a possible direction they are headed in with this investigation. (Linked in my earlier post).

These are my opinions.

Actually, the one thing that LE has pretty clearly stated is that Kyron was last seen around 9 am near one of the school entrances. There was no mention at all by LE that he was seen at that time WITH the step mother. So, it seems pretty clear that he was seen alone at that time.

 

[krazyfingerzz]

Delete if this is not okay...

I want to say why I don't think SM had anything to do with his disappearance.

First she would of had to have a motive to kill this child. Even if it was an accident, when did it take place? Lets say just for the sake of argument that there was an accident, in the parking lot and she ran him over. Why not call 911, why not scream and try to save Kyron? If he was hit or killed in a manner to cause any type of trauma, where is the blood or hair evidence in the car or home? I see lots of pictures of a well fed, well clothed, happy kid and I believe she is the one taking some of the pics. I don't get a feel that she did anything to this child and covered it. She also has a 18 month old baby, so what do you do with the baby as you are doing all this cleaning covering up?

My gut tells me, a person he felt comfortable to go what he thought would be a short distance and then head back into school. JMO

I have to agree. I really thought about this last night. If I grabbed my son from school, and killed him, how would I dispose of the body and get home to post on FB in time so nothing seemed out of place? I could only come up with having a "hiding place" in place ahead of time. While this does seem planned, that seems too complicated. Also, you could do all this with an 18-month old with you. They sleep, they don't really talk and would have no clue. But they also get cranky at inopportune moments so I just can't see it. There are other options.

I do believe that it's someone known to the school or family. However, family doesn't have to only mean SM. There are oodles of family members here...a very extended and complex family between divorces, remarriages, kids, etc. Obviously there are tons of people where the school is concerned. I wondered if they weren't trying to protect or gently handle a suspected minor or family member with the way they handled this. I think if they knew something though, by now they would have been more forthcoming, so again, i am at a loss.

 

[Chili Fries]

"Just a former Police Captain"? I don't mean to sound rude, but I am stunned. I would say that a former Police Captain has as much, if not more, insight and credibility as one who is still in that position.

Why would we not give credence to a Police Captain, retired or not? He has the experience and the know-how of those currently working the crime, along with more objectivity, only because he is not involved emotionally with the family.

Just my opinion

Your opinion is totally valid. I was just pointing out the stranger abduction comment didn't come from LE working on the case.

I have a hard time with experts because they seem to wildy vary in the quality of their insight. The former police captain could be the most reasonable voice on the subject. At the same time though he was fired from the Portland police dept because of a "pattern of deceptive behavior" shown during investigations into misconduct on his part. I'm wary of experts after realizing that people like Pat Brown and Michael Baden are full of baloney a lot of the time.

 

[nomoresorrow]

"Just a former Police Captain"? I don't mean to sound rude, but I am stunned. I would say that a former Police Captain has as much, if not more, insight and credibility as one who is still in that position.

Why would we not give credence to a Police Captain, retired or not? He has the experience and the know-how of those currently working the crime, along with more objectivity, only because he is not involved emotionally with the family.

Just my opinion

*I think that you're taking this the wrong way. I didn't take it as "just" implying any kind of insignificance to the former police caption/his title/or his position, but rather that he was obviously not working this case as he is retired (...former). As far as why one wouldn't give as much credence to his opinion on this case/investigation - He does not know/have all of the facts that the "active" investigators working the case have.

ETA: Actually, after reading my own post, I'd like to apologize for saying, "I think that you're taking this the wrong way" as it implies (although not intended) that you're wrong and I'm right when it's truly about each of our own perceptions and opinions - not whose right or wrong - SORRY!!

 

[Skully]

Howdy Bern!

I have been here since about thread 6 or 7 and personally I believe the earliest news articles are pretty telling. I am waiting for a few rumors to be dispelled by LE before I post my feelings out of respect for the families.

I pray these families do not have to wait over a year for answers about where their precious baby has gotten to.

I am there praying with you! This is a baffling case to say the least.

 

[laytonian]

IIRC Visitors did not have to sign in, and even employees did not have to wear name tags. Anyone could have walked in. How they expected to distinguish a RSO unrelated to anyone in the school and not permitted on school grounds, for example, from a student's extended family member, is beyond all my comprehension.

True, but with the special event going on, they may not have had anyone available to 100% screen the visitors on a busier-than-normal day.

Then you have the problem of "do we ask them for their ID?" issue? And if they're expected to screen RSOs, then they have to ask everyone for their ID and run them through a computer database.

What surprises me, though, is how few schools have security cameras aimed at all entrances. That would be a deterrent in itself, AND provide an immediate record if something went wrong.