OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5

[human]

re: Rock Quarry

Went up there tonight and took pictures. Wanted to get of quarry also and did
Couldn't stop at school didn't want to deal with LE so most are just out the window of car.
Here is link and doing a sub album of "raw" pics in order just so you can get a feel

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/

Well, they must think there might be something in the quarry, but it has chain link fence with barbed wire at the top. The quarry doesn't look very accessible to me.

I imagine that it has to be pretty well protected to keep from getting sued if something happened.

Did it look like there was an easy entrance into it anywhere?

 

[RubyRed]

:waitasec: Does anyone know why the school flag was flown at halfmast today?


Link to picture; http://photos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/06/search_for_kyron_horman_near_s_4.html

I don't know but I would like to.

Policies on when to Lower Flag to Half-Mast

A city or county has the authority to decide to fly the U.S. flag at half- mast within the jurisdiction when it deems it to be appropriate. Washington local governments tend to follow their own custom when it comes to lowering the flag to half-mast to honor various persons. Typically the flag-lowering is in response to deaths or tragedies of statewide or national significance. Some local government jurisdictions only lower flags to half-mast when federal or state governments do so, while others show respect to the passing of local personages that may have made a significant civic contribution or died while in the service to their country or local government.

http://www.mrsc.org/Subjects/Governance/flagdisplay.aspx#Policies

 

[TGIRecovered]

Hi - I am a newbie, joined yesterday. I discovered WS around the Denise Amber Lee case, and you all are so committed to doing a wonderful job when crisis hits, and these stories come out. Applause to all! This is my second post, and I am from Portland, so this case truly hits home. I agree with all on this board: we don't have much to go on.

My cents: I honestly think that "isolated incident" means someone knew Kyron, even if only slightly, and I think tight lips from LE could indicate school staff/and or a minor (is that allowed to be said?? I have no familiarity with anyone at Skyline). At first, I was wondering about neighbors or possibly a minor who babysits with the family? Someone who maybe still has attachments to the school and was at the open house for the science fair? I would have no idea why someone would harm this little boy, but a minor would maybe have not meant harm, but acted out of "acting out" and is scared to speak up. Perhaps not aware of consequences, and is terrified of all the media and real life of actions not meant to cause harm...It might also explain some reactions of those close to the case that have lead people to not leave any POI no matter how unfair or wrong unquestioned.

Obviously, if they knew for certain who the person (if there is one) responsible for Kyron missing was, we may have more clues. Then again, it might be a situation so sensitive - perhaps a minor who has instability issues or may clam up completely - that they have to tread lightly to try and get the safe return....

I appreciate any advise on how to post, if I've crossed lines here....

Welcome, and don't worry, I think you did fine on your first post!

 

[Kimster]

Hi DidionFan!!!

Welcome to Websleuths! So glad you joined us in the search for Kyron! :blowkiss:

 

[pufnstuf]

re: Rock Quarry

Went up there tonight and took pictures. Wanted to get of quarry also and did
Couldn't stop at school didn't want to deal with LE so most are just out the window of car.
Here is link and doing a sub album of "raw" pics in order just so you can get a feel

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/

I have new respect for the searchers. That is rough terrain. I heard that one searcher fell today and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance.

Thanks for the photos. I can really get a feel for the area now.

Do you think it's possible this little guy could have skittered down the road without being seen? Cornelius Pass Road looks much busier than I had imagined. Is Skyline that busy, too?

 

[freefallzzzz]

Well, they must think there might be something in the quarry, but it has chain link fence with barbed wire at the top. The quarry doesn't look very accessible to me.

I imagine that it has to be pretty well protected to keep from getting sued if something happened.

Did it look like there was an easy entrance into it anywhere?

Yes there is a very big entrance at the end of the road, we drove down but I just didn't feel right about snapping pics of the SAR I did see there in the parking lot =)

 

[yosande]

It's good the FBI is there.

I agree, if for no other reason than that they likely are not connected to the community, so there isn't the bias that local LE might have.
Just my opinion.

 

[freefallzzzz]

I have new respect for the searchers. That is rough terrain. I heard that one searcher fell today and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance.

Thanks for the photos. I can really get a feel for the area now.

Do you think it's possible this little guy could have skittered down the road without being seen? Cornelius Pass Road looks much busier than I had imagined. Is Skyline that busy, too?

My personal opinion is there is NO way he could have gone very far down Cornelius Pass Road without being seen.

Skyline, if you travel east towards the quarry, that one is not as busy but still none of the roads up there really have a place to walk very safely along the side. and yes I looked in the ditches too but there are not a whole lot, just a lot of drop offs..

I cannot IMAGINE being a searcher, the trees, the undergrowth, yes I too have much much much more respect for them and yes they were out there at dusk when we went up there

 

[human]

It also may explain the "go back to school" protocol the following Monday. Guilt is a powerful and revealing force, especially in the young.......I hate to think its a minor, but I say this with the hope that mal-intent was not what caused him to go missing.....

There are sociopaths that have no guilt. We just had 2 horrendous crimes here committed by the same 14 year old, 2 16's and an 18 year old girl. So far, one 16 year old is charged with attempted murder. Incredibly brutal crimes.

I know from the names of 2 of the kids released (in my community) that they come from family histories many criminal acts. I think 2 of the kids have murderers in their families. I just can't remember because they are such criminals. I had never heard of the attempted murder perp and the 14 year old hasn't been charged.

If it's a teen, I bet it will be someone with a horrible family past.

Maybe LE knows about those kinds of situations at the school, so they investigated some kids with family histories.

 

[RubyRed]

re: Rock Quarry

Went up there tonight and took pictures. Wanted to get of quarry also and did
Couldn't stop at school didn't want to deal with LE so most are just out the window of car.
Here is link and doing a sub album of "raw" pics in order just so you can get a feel

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/

Thank You for the pics.

 

[TakeNote]

Wow you all deserted me. :floorlaugh: Seriously peeps any time you want to stop back and join us in scannering please feel free. Door is always open. But if you are the last to leave at night just turn out the lights 10-4?

Night all. I'm going to get some of you hooked on scannering whether you believe it now or not!

hey ....im there and here LOL :dance:

 

[DidionFan]

Do you think it's possible this little guy could have skittered down the road without being seen? Cornelius Pass Road looks much busier than I had imagined. Is Skyline that busy, too?

I think its possible - - with all the emotions of all involved, especially the almost tearful statement a few days back from LE - it might make sense, as much sense as someone taking him at this point. No matter how well behaved kids are, it was a science fair, and kids can be unpredictably exploratory...I have been wondering due to assurances made that this is an isolated incident, and the pained feelings coming from LE, if somehow a fellow student knows something, even if it was that he saw Kyron walk out the door and didn't tell his teacher, then waited until the next day to speak up....it's so hard to see kids feel guilty for things they know are not right - like speaking up if something is amiss - that could have prevented a tragedy.

 

[DidionFan]

oh - thanks for the welcomes ) I am a little shy - especially knowing you all's skill sets!

 

[Wrinkles]

As per:

>>school flag was flown at halfmast today<<

I believe that a local law enforcement officer died recently... Perhaps this is the reason for the flag at halfmast.

 

[pufnstuf]

My personal opinion is there is NO way he could have gone very far down Cornelius Pass Road without being seen.

Skyline, if you travel east towards the quarry, that one is not as busy but still none of the roads up there really have a place to walk very safely along the side. and yes I looked in the ditches too but there are not a whole lot, just a lot of drop offs..

I cannot IMAGINE being a searcher, the trees, the undergrowth, yes I too have much much much more respect for them and yes they were out there at dusk when we went up there

I got the same feel from your photos, that Skyline definitely isn't pedestrian friendly.

Thanks again for the photos. I saw the little church where they are having the press conferences I think... It's great what you can learn from the photos.

 

[Pensfan]

If poll is not yet established, how about using established profiles?
Taken by someone he knew well
Taken by an acquaintance
Taken by a stranger
Wandered off on his own

 

[DidionFan]

There are sociopaths that have no guilt. We just had 2 horrendous crimes here committed by the same 14 year old, 2 16's and an 18 year old girl. So far, one 16 year old is charged with attempted murder. Incredibly brutal crimes.

( I am trying NOT to think about the Olsen case, but I have. My post was only in reference to more innocent minded minors. I'm hoping that a sociopathic minor is not involved, but I agree with you whole-heartedly that guilt would not appear in these minors. Strange observable behavior, though, could...

Fingers crossed that they have some idea where he could have gone, and who can provide answers - and fast.

 

[human]

I agree, if for no other reason than that they likely are not connected to the community, so there isn't the bias that local LE might have.
Just my opinion.

They may not have bias, but locals know what is going on. We used to have a constable where I live years ago, and he knew everything about the families. He was so good and knew which people needed a kick in the pants, and which ones needed to be arrested.

Now we have Sheriffs that cover a huge huge area. I imagine that they know some things, but they don't know a whole lot as well.

One good thing is that the Sheriff there may have a pulse on the community and know who are potential problem people.

I wouldn't think that something as major as this doesn't have some other things associated with it. Shoplifting, drugs, who knows what else.

It just seems that these kinds of perps don't come up with a sterling record. If nothing else, somebody thinks that the perp is hinky and has mentioned it.

I have known a couple of child sex offenders and their personalities made me dislike them instantly.

One was a janitor at every school I worked at. He seemed to end up being transferred to the schools I ended up at.

He was a guy in his 59's when he was finally busted ( this was maybe 20 years ago)

One of the things he had done was drilled holes in the girls bathroom so that he could watch them. He was also stealing things from the school.

He was so unpleasant to talk to. And I had to deal with him almost daily.

I just don't think a person who would do this is going to be someone who somebody didn't think was a whack job in some way.

 

[RubyRed]

If poll is not yet established, how about using established profiles?
Taken by someone he knew well
Taken by an acquaintance
Taken by a stranger
Wandered off on his own

The poll is at this link.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106322"]OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, 4 June 2010 What Happened? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[butterfly1978]

After much consideration my gut has decided that I beleive it is a minor or minors responsible. I have not yet decided wether I beleive it is someone who attends the school or possably a sibling of someone that attends the school. My reason for beleiving this is because I can not see how Kyron would have been abducted from the school and by abducted I mean snatched. I can't invision a scenerio where he would willingly leave school either knowing that he had the talent show later, and its been reported that he was a pretty good kid. He seemed very proud of his project so I cant imagine him wanting to leave or having a reason to leave. I recall somewhere earlier a comment that said he was timid but had a friend who got him in trouble, or something along those lines, anyway one sceneio I see is what if this friend or another kid said hey Kyron teacher dont take roll for an hour I know where we can find some frogs and they sneak out Kyron gets hurt and instead of getting help the kid sneaks back in school because he is scared he will get in trouble..... Or the electricity project does sound like it was made by an older kid. I have a 7 year old and I know he couldn't do an elecricity project anyway Kyron shows intrest in this project and the older kid is a mean bully or just a messed up kid (think Elizabeth O.) and lures him away. Or one of Kyrons step brother has a friend who has a sibling at the school and he/she attends the fair, and tells him that his step brother needs him and he goes with him/her.......
I just do not see LE thinking this is an isolated incident and not putting out an urgent warning to parents if they thought this was anything other than being another kid involved. I am thinking LE knows who and are watching this person(kid) and are wanting them to be guilted into telling or are watching what they do and where they go. If another kid is involved the kid or kids will crack. A kid cant hold something like this inside, and LE WILL NOT put out that information if the assailant is a kid.