OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

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When are we going to address the issues instead of focusing on more and more prisons, more and more armed areas, more and more fear mongering?

When "we" all agree on what the issues are and agree the solution requires major changes.

Mass shooters are a teeny tiny part of the problem. Our society has a LOT of dysfunctional individuals and is geared towards encouraging the dysfunctional into having more and more kids.

That IMO is a HUGE part of the problem. It OVERWHELMS the systems designed to prevent problems. CPS is overwhelmed, the government's very limited mental health resources are overwhelmed, etc...

The answer is to reduce the overall number of dysfunctional individuals so we can address the folks that need help. But that won't happen for various reasons.
 
Only thing they need for more adult behavior is ways to control feelings of anger and developing frustration tolerance.
. Telling ya- their outbursts are scary - and it isnt about "getting their way" they can not manage uncofortable feeling states . Some headbang, can happen anywhere, cant grasp the notion of social behaviors. Boom - its on

Here is a video , No real precipator except feelings of frustration ..... no worries adult is doing exactly what she needs to , get him on ground, less chance of injury, less movement which means less stimulation, no yelling stop it etc, introducing calming events

[video=youtube;w_23z9yJAq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_23z9yJAq0[/video]
 
now watch how parents completly excaberate the outburst and what happens.Complete not ok to shame the child (dad pay for pencil/ mom is attempting to engage is a dialog? asking her why she is behaving that way - becasue she is ill mom and cant help it -- I need a break from you (thats loving) then sends the child away, rejection

[video=youtube;eCbjuEZWAX4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCbjuEZWAX4[/video]

notice the titles of the video the posters gave of each video, outburst indicates cant control no? meltdown sounds like a choice no?
 
lov ya human!

ya forgot having to get rid of your car !

and dont remeber the amount but cant have (for like the last year) over X net worth,

This is theruetic for us , didnt you get sick of hearing, well there is help out there..................................................U G H...typically from folks who are educated, have resources,etc and they get in their Mercedes off to dine at a 5 star rest!!
 
now watch how parents completly excaberate the outburst and what happens.

Yes, they exacerbated the problem for the camera.

On the flip side there is the mother in this scenario, instead of setting boundaries and working to calm him she drew her disturbed child into her own dysfunction, and went along with most everything in an attempt to keep him calm.

Some articles mentioned that she thought he would be a great financial planner or film maker. If she was telling him that it might fit into him saying he was "not getting what he deserved".
 
You do realize (I Hope) that I ONLY provided the information that people who are disabled AND receive SSDI (which is not the same as SSI) also receive Medicare. I DIDN't say everyone who is disabled receives SSDI. It's an arduous application process. The process is the same for both physical OR mental disability. I would like a link, if you have one, for those questions you listed. TIA

I'm don't understand what you mean by - Period. Enuff said!
 
I have never understood this. Why when all these bad things happen all the social media outlets remove them from the internet. To me it sounds and feels like cenorship?

Why jdo they do that-kinda frustrating cause I want to see them for myself- the ones you can get do add nuance to the story

Yeah there are interesting theories about the social media sites/censorship. Plus his legal name was allegedly Christopher Sean Mercer, not sure where the hyphenated Christopher Harper-Mercer came into this, especially since the media has avoided photos of the mom.

It gets wilder....supposedly an ISIS message claimed responsibility and the Russians say he was on their terrorist watch list. We do know one of his few myspace friends was an extreme jihadist.
 
I think he used the name Harper-Mercer for school/medical reasons. His parents separated when he was still a baby, and his mother kept her maiden name, easier if he had a hyphenated name to identify they were related.
 
You do realize (I Hope) that I ONLY provided the information that people who are disabled AND receive SSDI (which is not the same as SSI) also receive Medicare. I DIDN't say everyone who is disabled receives SSDI. It's an arduous application process. The process is the same for both physical OR mental disability. I would like a link, if you have one, for those questions you listed. TIA

I'm don't understand what you mean by - Period. Enuff said!


that was to myself1 i am getting long typing keys (long winded) on this post ~!!!

Mental is much much harder to get approved - medical has xrays, blood labs their legs are missing, and they have to forecast that it will last. No legs - gonna be that way ! Stage 4 cancer, your with me
 
Yeah there are interesting theories about the social media sites/censorship. Plus his legal name was allegedly Christopher Sean Mercer, not sure where the hyphenated Christopher Harper-Mercer came into this, especially since the media has avoided photos of the mom.

It gets wilder....supposedly an ISIS message claimed responsibility and the Russians say he was on their terrorist watch list. We do know one of his few myspace friends was an extreme jihadist.

and wasnt there Ira stuff ? And he was really into hitler stuff kinda implies a propensity for violence huh!
 
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• Blow torch gas bottle — CONTENTS MAY CATCH FIRE.
• Reflective cardboard sun shades for car dashboards • DO NOT DRIVE WITH SUN SHIELD IN PLACE.
• Craftsman power drill — POWER DRILL NOT INTENDED FOR DENTAL USE.

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"DO NOT put any person in this washer"

Our legislators hard at work making laws:

A person cannot get drunk in a bar and remain on the premises.

Cannibalism is strictly prohibited and punishable by up to 14 years in prison in Idaho

In the Garden State, anyone wearing a "body vest" a.k.a. bullet-proof armor while committing murder, manslaughter, robbery, sexual assault, etc. is guilty of another crime. (boy we think prisons are overcrowded now.........

Rhode Islanders who bite off someone else's limb will face no more than 20 years in prison
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-ridiculous-law-in-every-state-2014-2
 
Friends, the link that CARIIS provided with the multiple videos of severely autistic individuals will break. your. heart. Be forewarned. Thank you, CARIIS, for sharing this with us. I watched, and wept, and wept.

There are many takeaways - too many. But, you can certainly see that there is such a HUGE spectrum in the category of mental illness. As I think CARIIS mentioned briefly in another post, it is/would be similar to lumping cancer in with the flu. Both are illnesses. But .... I am speechless. It goes back to what many have posted about not lumping anybody and everybody with a mental illness into one bucket. THAT is where the stigma comes from (at least once of the causes).

So, we have these extremely autistic souls, who I do not think could hurt anyone if they wanted to. (I take that back a bit, one of my best friends has an autistic son who is now 20. When he has a meltdown, she can no longer handle him because he is bigger and stronger than she is. She is, as all these parents are in these videos, a slave to their child's disability). My point is that these types of individuals with this type of mental illness, are harmless.

Then there is the majority of the population who could be categorized under the category as mentally ill. Those who suffer from depression, anxiety, OCD, PST, panic, phobias, etc. If you research the number of patients on antidepressants, it will blow you away. Unfortunately, it's just not talked about. It's still a taboo topic. Why? One of the reasons is that, once again, MANY if not MOST of the population are completely ignorant about mental illness. I can understand why. It is beyond comprehension to understand something you don't experience.

Then there are the schizophrenics. Again, a range of symptoms and severity from A to Z. My mom spent most of her life behind a locked bedroom door certain that spies were watching us. She would disappear for months at a time while I was growing up. Police would eventually find "this woman" sleeping in the woods clear across the country. Yet, she would never hurt anyone, but, I must share...she did have an evil, dark side. Perhaps multiple personalities. And depending on what personality she was experiencing, her behavior, her voice, her demeanor was living the evil personality. I lived in fear.

I have another dear friend who has a daughter in a clinic for a 5 year program, especially for adolescent schizophrenics. First, he is wealthy. Very wealthy. It costs him $200K a year for her to be in this clinic in Chicago. His younger son committed suicide. The daughter never recovered. She eventually began cutting herself, tried suicide, accused her parents of abusing her....and on and on and on. Mental Illness shatters lives. Families. The mentally healthy siblings suffer. Did you see the little girl curled up on the coach with the pillow over her head when her brother was having a melt-down and screaming in one of the videos? She, my friend's daughter, is not EVER expected to be well. Ever.

And ironically enough, my other best friend also has an autistic son. But it is completely different. He is off the charts OCD, and she is a slave to his obsessions: watching the star spangled banner being sung on the computer for hour upon hour upon hour upon weeks upon months. He can't tolerate change. Has no friends. Is very smart. Legally blind. And - an outcast, because he is 'odd'. Her older son, my son's best friend, is off-the-charts brilliant and finally off to college this year, but he, my son's friend, is FILLED with RAGE & ANGER. His simply cannot tolerate his brothers absolute non stop 24x7 behavior. My girlfriend is a saint. He screams, cries, and then when something happens, he absolutely cannot let it go. The 'issue' goes on for hours. I am at her house on most holidays, and it is always derailed by her son's disability.

THEN - we have the sickos we've been talking about on this thread. Do you see how vastly different the illnesses are within the mental illness category? And CARIIS is right, alot of people still think anyone who has a mental illness is 'crazy' and talks to clouds. (a bit of an exaggeration, but on point).

The sadistic, sociopaths we have been referencing in this thread were...are in a different category. MOST cannot be helped. There is no 'cure' for such severe personality disorders. You cannot 'teach someone' to have empathy, to care, to feel emotion. You either have it or you don't. No pill or therapy gives you the basic human emotions that most of us feel without even recognizing it. So when we see these horrific criminals, "we" just can't understand it. Well, of course we can't.

I am now thinking the whole issue is bigger than guns, bigger than mental illness - How has our government continued to ignore what we should do here? Why has no hopeful POTUS politician addressed the mental health/crisis in the context of offering up a going-forward solution. Me thinks: it is just too damn big of a problem, is still taboo, is surrounded by shame and secrecy, and most of all, misunderstood as a result of ignorance.

The parents on these videos have no where to place their child for care. (Unless they are over the top wealthy). Outplacement would be better for the child AND better for the family. IMO. Watching my friends handle their autistic children - is exhausting. They NEVER get a break.

One last final personal story, my own son came home over winter break during his freshman year...depressed and anxious. Fairly serious. He is also suffering from PSTD post Superstorm Sandy where we lost everything we owned and I am a single parent. ---- I had to go down and pick him up mid-semester as he was sobbing. What I want to share is this:

I spent the entire months of December and January trying to get him an appointment with a psychiatrist (in NJ). Guess what? I couldn't get one. Insurance or no insurance. Didn't matter. I called NYC, I called Johns Hopkins. Waiting time for an appointment? Average: 3 months! What makes me crazy (no pun intended) is that when someone is in crisis, they are in crisis! They need help now - not three months from now. The only alternative I was given, which I did not take, was to take him to the ER. And - I wasn't going there. He certainly didn't need any escalation in drama. OR - I could call the police and they would call in a psychiatric nurse, and she/he would come to the house and decide if he needed to go the ER. Again, did not do.

This is such a big issue, the elephant on the table, - the mentally ill aren't important to our govt (IMO) - just as many others (unemployed, etc) -- that are dismissed, which to me means, are simply cast aside and deemed unworthy. 'Not my problem'.

Thanks for listening. xoxox








Only thing they need for more adult behavior is ways to control feelings of anger and developing frustration tolerance.
. Telling ya- their outbursts are scary - and it is not about "getting their way" they can not manage uncomfortable feeling states . Some headbang, can happen anywhere, cantt grasp the notion of social behaviors. Boom - its on

Here is a video , No real precipator except feelings of frustration ..... no worries adult is doing exactly what she needs to , get him on ground, less chance of injury, less movement which means less stimulation, no yelling stop it etc, introducing calming events

[video=youtube;w_23z9yJAq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_23z9yJAq0[/video]
 
GutInstinct, thank-you for posting that, my heart goes out to you. I could have written what you wrote about your son, except it is our youngest daughter. And we once did have to take her to the ER, only to be told there were no beds for her. It was ordeal after ordeal to try to get an appointment for her, just like you wrote. Bipolar and a cutter, she is 28 years old now, doesn't live with us anymore, but it doesn't end trying to help and do what we can for her. And all the examples you wrote about, mental illness is a taboo, people don't want to talk about it, people don't understand......
 
Gutinstinct, :goodpost:

Mental health is such a taboo subject. So many desperate for help with no where to turn. Waiting lists, appointments, and no beds. It is a crisis!

Then think of all those who really need help, but don't think they do. Ticking time bombs!

My heart goes out to you all who are affected and struggling with the effects. X
 
That is what I was trying to say in an earlier post. It just struck me. after everyone of these gun control and mental health surround the story.

It hit me that a really bigger part of the issue, is actually lay folks authentic lack of what mental illiness is, ts almost as if many many folks beliefs are like from 1950 Aslum days.

By that I mean most (I think this would be very American- pick yourself up by your bootstraps) as oppossed to grasping that it is a real entity. No different that dieabetes. Peroid. Its physical.

So it seems as if , for the masses unless one is talking to clouds they are not ill mentally, (when in fact very few , as this year has demonstrated , few in fact are talking to trees.

Its like if one is employed they cant be mentally ill nor dangerous. . I think if the masses were able to grasp how many varients of illiness (many types of cancers) the society in and of itself might possibly "catch" some of these individuals struggling with what might evolve into violent behaviors, cancer stage 1 2 etc

here are the vocations of the recent mass shooting actors:


Navy contractor and former Navy man


In one of the toughest euro PHD program

college student full time
a driver for Hartford Distributors
a professor
U.S. army psychologist
high school student
car mechanic
secret-level security clearance valid for ten years.
building technician
worked at his family's business
ABB power plant employee
truck rental business
Harvard graduate
published papers in journals
engineering student
own painting business
active in a number of civic and charitable organizations i
US Postal Service employee
high school teacher
sheriff's deputy
Lockheed Martin employee
Xerox service technician,
Day trader
Lottery worker
metallurgist

Most of the seriously ill are not psycotic, but as we are seeing can be violent

Maybe its time to do some education (like the your brains on drugs, Forest Fires, smoking, just getting in gear texting while driving) on the realities of what mental illiness ctually is

just a notion....



I am not sure how many on the list are disgruntled employees. Disgruntled employees may have a different motivation than the delusional anti-hero looking for attention type?
 
Only thing they need for more adult behavior is ways to control feelings of anger and developing frustration tolerance.
. Telling ya- their outbursts are scary - and it isnt about "getting their way" they can not manage uncofortable feeling states . Some headbang, can happen anywhere, cant grasp the notion of social behaviors. Boom - its on

Here is a video , No real precipator except feelings of frustration ..... no worries adult is doing exactly what she needs to , get him on ground, less chance of injury, less movement which means less stimulation, no yelling stop it etc, introducing calming events

[video=youtube;w_23z9yJAq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_23z9yJAq0[/video]

HI Cariis- enjoy reading your posts. :)

This is a video example of low functioning autism, now recognized as Level 3 with the new DSM-V.

While you can definitely see the frustration of the parent, which could occur with any level of ASD, I just want everyone to understand that autism is a spectrum and Level 1, the mildest of the three levels of autism spectrum levels, looks much differently than the kid in this video.

Despite some oddities, Level 1 kids with ASDs appear quite normal, with IQs in the low average to above average, even gifted, range. This video shows a different part of the spectrum... Just wanted to point that out.
 
A tough milestone lies ahead for the families and friends of the victims.

"Memorial services for the victims are being held over the next few days. A memorial service for Larry Levine has already been held. Memorial services will be held for Jason Johnson on Thursday and Lucero Alcarez on Friday. Separate services will be held Quinn Cooper, Rebecka Carnes, Lucas Eibel and Treven Anspach, each on Saturday; and services for Kim Saltmarsh-Dietz will be held Sunday."

Prayers for all the victims in the days ahead.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/roseburg-oregon-officers-who-shot-gunman-say-they-arent-heroes-/
 
"Speaking at a press conference Wednesday morning, police identified the two Roseburg Police Department detectives who engaged the gunman.

Authorities said detectives Joe Kaney and Todd Spingath were on the scene about six minutes after the first 911 calls came into dispatchers.

The account law enforcement gave was that the two officers saved lives by acting quickly."

Thank you for your service, Detectives Kaney and Spingath. Prayers for your own healing in the aftermath of this tragedy.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/roseburg-oregon-officers-who-shot-gunman-say-they-arent-heroes-/
 
This beautiful video honoring the victims just came to my attention and brought me to tears. I'm reposting it for any who missed it earlier, as I did. Thank you, Sasquatch, for another moving compilation and perfect song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y6M2abgXRNw&feature=youtu.be

OT: I will be re-posting the video Sas did two years ago for Stephanie Warner on her thread tomorrow. It will be 27 months since she disappeared.

Bumping this beautiful and heartwrenching video. Thank you again, Lilibet for posting it and Sasquatch for creating it.


:grouphug:
 

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