GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[Camdenres]

This one's almost too much for me. Reading the details of what happened to Whitney, it's like I can feel how afraid she must have been. This case has really gotten to me.

Me too...I can hardy stand to think of what the last few minutes of her life were like....Whitney,sweet girl.. I am so sorry that you had to meet with such evil. No matter how this plays out, her killer will never suffer enough for this crime.

 

[Bravo]

There are many differences yet so many similarities in this case to Mickey Shunicks. Her killer confessed and thru the investigation was linked to another Victim. At least one other the last i read that thread.

 

[ingra1327]

Did anyone else hear the details?

Knox, I listened to the whole report on KOIN after reading Kacey Montoya's tweet--she gave her report, but I didn't hear any details about the prior call. Not even the part already posted. I'll keep watching...

 

[CaringCitizen]

If he was used to his bike and great mpg that might explain if there were (I realize thoughts on this differ) multiple gas purchases - he might well have underestimated how much gas would be necessary to fill up Whitney's bigger (and more gas hungry) vehicle...or might have underestimated how far he could get or if he'd have enough for his varied route that he took her on.

That could allow for either multiple stops for gas, or even just what had initially sounded like multiple purchases at the same station (he could have put in 20$ worth or whatever, then realized that hardly moved the needle in an SUV, and then gotten more immediately).

It'll be interesting to eventually hear more details on exactly what the timetable/details of this ended up being.

Remember, we already have a really good reason for why his gas trips would be intentionally short. Since you are forced to have an attendant pump your gas, it usually takes a long time because they start the process and then go on to other cars. Your gas is long done but you still have to wait until he comes back to remove the nozzle. (They return the card to you instantly after swiping). ONLY if you order a few gallons will they do it right there without leaving your car to wait on other customers. So if you need to get in and out fast of a gas station in Oregon the key is to order a small amount. It would reduce the amount of time he could be seen by employees and other customers.

That's why the gas trips are short. I guarantee it.


-

 

[katydid23]

I am going to force my DD to read about this case. I have been trying to explain to her, now that she and her girlfriends have their own apt, that just because someone is a 'neighbor' or a maintenance man, it does not mean they are safe to hang out with alone. People are nuts and she needs to be more cautious.

Whitney knew this guy and he was married and a friend of her husbands and she was friends with his wife. So she probably had no reason to believe he would do her harm. What I told my daughter, was that if a neighbor suddenly pops up and asks for a ride, then right in front of them you should call your boyfriend and./or roomie and say out loud, ' Oh by the way, I am giving so and so a ride so I may be a little later...'

At least it lets the neighbor know that others are aware he is getting in her car. Would that have deterred him? I don't know. But we need to start being more proactive about these horrible perps.

 

[crazymomof4]

On her facebok I have seen pictures of she and Clint at "seminars" or something.
Were these for his work or does JW have things they sponsor for young couples?

Any thoughts?

Because WH was in attendance and they were so dressed up and nice looking
I thought JW?
(not that they didn't always look great)

This may have already been answered (I'm behind a few pages) but those were pix of them at the Kingdom Hall and at annual conventions. Yes, our Kingdom Halls look more "business like" than "church like". I can totally see where you thought it was a "seminar".

 

[Knox]

Knox, I listened to the whole report on KOIN after reading Kacey Montoya's tweet--she gave her report, but I didn't hear any details about the prior call. Not even the part already posted. I'll keep watching...

Thank you Ingra.

 

[nervous_nellie]

it really makes me sick knowing that he shot her 4 times...wtf?

 

[FrayedKnot]

If he admits to pulling the gun on her five minutes into the ride, and everything else he admits, why would he lie about exactly when he pulled the gun?

For the same reason pedophile killers will admit to murdering their victims but deny they did anything of a sexual nature to them.

And those reasons are locked up in the sick drainage ditch of a mind they possess. Some acts they find acceptable, others they won't admit even to themselves despite what the evidence will tell. Who knows what tips the scales in an imbalanced brain?

 

[StreetcarRider]

If there's one thing to be taken away from this... one lesson to learn in this utterly nonsensical, stupid act, is that ladies, WE HAVE TO STOP BEING SO NICE!!!

We are under no obligation to be nice all the time. I'm sick of this idea that "nice girls do ___, nice girls don't do _____". Let's stop being nice to people. If a neighbor you don't know really well asks you for a ride... offer to call them a cab. Make an excuse. Say you don't have time. Say anything.

From the time we are young, we are taught that we are obliged to be accommodating, to be nice, to effectively open our boundaries to whatever, and then to be "polite" even when our boundaries are violated.

So many JWs on this board spoke up earlier and said "Oh, WH would never have given him a ride, because we are not supposed to do that...". True enough, but it was an awkward situation and she was alone and she probably wanted to be nice and neighbourly. Sometimes the social pressure to be nice and do the right thing overrides our own boundaries.

I'm not saying this to blame Whitney... it's not her fault AT ALL. It just really, really upsets me, because there is this expectation all the time that women should be "nice" and when nice girls are nice, bad guys take advantage of them, or worse.

I completely disagree with the idea that being nice to people frequently provides negative returns. What happened to Whitney Heichel was a profound tragedy, but the death of kindness would be a tragedy on another level.

Obviously, people need to use common sense, but what a miserable life someone must lead when they assume everyone in the world is out to get them. Contrary to the "nice girls go out of their way to be accommodating" idea, I think most people today, especially women, are taught to be afraid of everyone, with reason or not. How many times do you hear people say they've taught their children to be afraid of strangers, instead of teaching their children to read and interpret behavior?

Violent crimes are rare, especially within the context of people doing each other favors. Loneliness, bitterness, and fear are widespread, though- I can't support anything that serves to further those things. Assuming that your neighbor is going to stab you in the back or shoot you in the front is no way to go through life. And frankly, I don't think that Whitney Heichel being less "nice" in this situation would have made much of an impact on the results.

 

[laura08]

Light a Candle for Whitney.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=WH

 

[Ashfox]

If he admits to pulling the gun on her five minutes into the ride, and everything else he admits, why would he lie about exactly when he pulled the gun?

I just dont see him being the epitome of honesty what he did is beyond imaginable and I believe he was hiding some very dark secrets from his wife family and religion I personally believe he was LIVING a lie everyday IMO again I used to be a JW but had to be honest with myself that certain aspects of the religion I still believe in even to this day and other parts I couldnt I didnt want to be the person who went to a meeting on Sunday morning then came home and smoked a cigarette... The only thing I heard that he admitted to was shooting WH and I just personally question if things went down like he told the police. I dont know why he would lie about things but I see him having a gun out way earlier who knows I just have to see how things pan out

 

[FrayedKnot]

I can't even begin to imagine how you got that from my post, and I am extremely offended that you just put those words into my mouth, so I'm going to step away from this thread before things become uglier. I hope you'll think before you accuse someone of that kind of thing again.

Well I apologize, but you did say she broke some sort of rule (?) by giving Holt a ride. I found that an odd thing to say and it sounded accusatory.

Maybe it just read that way to me.

I still don't know what rule you are referring to.

MOO

 

[nervous_nellie]

For the same reason pedophile killers will admit to murdering their victims but deny they did anything of a sexual nature to them.

And those reasons are locked up in the sick drainage ditch of a mind they possess. Some acts they find acceptable, others they won't admit even to themselves despite what the evidence will tell. Who knows what tips the scales in an imbalanced brain?

i agree...i would guess that it maybe that he is sort of blaming her for allowing him into the car...idk? but i would think that if he pulled a gun on her before they were in the car she would have screamed for help and prolly would have alerted someone if not her husband who had that day off...so, i think maybe he did wait till the car was in motion...

and why the hell did he shoot her 4 times! :furious:

 

[darmela]

It seems normal to me I dont see them having a large public memorial for WH so perhaps this is his way of sharing with the non (i dont use the term church since JW dont consider it a church) but Ill use it in this reference non church community his thanks for what everyone has done and what Whitney meant to him? Regardless of whether people want to admit it or not being a JW comes with IMO extra scrutiny whether you like it or not just due to all the miss information that people say about you and all the confusion involved. Even though I no longer attend I would have people to this day say oooo you used to be amish... I will still have to clarify many things for the rest of life lol but i do think that with all the media attention associated with this case and the fact again IMO there probably wont be a public memory this is his way to say thank you to those no JWs

Why do you not see them having a memorial where the public could attend? I think there are many people, Jehovah's Witnesses or not, that would like to pay tribute to Whitney and to show their love and concern. It is my feeling that they will want to accommodate everyone and have her memorial in a big enough place (possibly an assembly hall) where one and all will be able to attend. Also, we can't be mind readers and know Clint's motives for anything he has done or said. ~JMOO

 

[Indy Anna]

:what:

I wonder what he was doing then? :furious:

Umm... I hope LE is looking into other assault/ unsolved murder cases that happened during the time he was missing. What gets me is that he was soooo brazen in what he did to Whitney. Has he struck before and felt he'd gotten away with it once (or more) and could get away with it again?

 

[crazymomof4]

brotherly and sisterly love i can see them being willing to help someone else out and still not want to hang out around the person but be nice and honestly even though i dont attend meetings ne more i would trust someone who was a JW before i trusted some of my own family lol and i have an awesome family!:twocents:

Exactly! You said it in fewer words tho.... I need to learn that :blushing:

 

[laura08]

I just dont see him being the epitome of honesty what he did is beyond imaginable and I believe he was hiding some very dark secrets from his wife family and religion I personally believe he was LIVING a lie everyday IMO again I used to be a JW but had to be honest with myself that certain aspects of the religion I still believe in even to this day and other parts I couldnt I didnt want to be the person who went to a meeting on Sunday morning then came home and smoked a cigarette... The only thing I heard that he admitted to was shooting WH and I just personally question if things went down like he told the police. I dont know why he would lie about things but I see him having a gun out way earlier who knows I just have to see how things pan out

I see where your coming from while she was missing, he had been interveiwed and lied those times. LE later said his stories where inconsistent he had those days to reveal the truth, knowing exactly where Whitney was. But he didn't. I feel he wanted to speak some truth when he realized he was caught, because he couldn't lie his way out of it. But as for being honest like Bravo said Whitney's not here to tell her side of the story but I think she was forced from the beginning also.

 

[Ashfox]

Well I apologize, but you did say she broke some sort of rule (?) by giving Holt a ride. I found that an odd thing to say and it sounded accusatory.

Maybe it just read that way to me.

I still don't know what rule you are referring to.

MOO

not to jump in i think there was a previous post that made mention that it would have been alittle unlikely for WH to give Holt a ride because they were both married and it could look bad for both to be alone together because that could lead to gossip and rumors so I think perhaps there was confusion that there was a RULE against two witnesses who are of opposite genders being alone in a car together when both are married. Which as far as I know (17 years ago) is not true although I can see why a JW wouldnt put themselves in a situation that could lead to someone saying something.... did that make sense lol sorry i dont always clarify things properly but i think thats where that came from

 

[FrayedKnot]

I completely disagree with the idea that being nice to people frequently provides negative returns. What happened to Whitney Heichel was a profound tragedy, but the death of kindness would be a tragedy on another level.

Obviously, people need to use common sense, but what a miserable life someone must lead when they assume everyone in the world is out to get them. Contrary to the "nice girls go out of their way to be accommodating" idea, I think most people today, especially women, are taught to be afraid of everyone, with reason or not. How many times do you hear people say they've taught their children to be afraid of strangers, instead of teaching their children to read and interpret behavior?

Violent crimes are rare, especially within the context of people doing each other favors. Loneliness, bitterness, and fear are widespread, though- I can't support anything that serves to further those things. Assuming that your neighbor is going to stab you in the back or shoot you in the front is no way to go through life. And frankly, I don't think that Whitney Heichel being less "nice" in this situation would have made much of an impact on the results.

I totally agree. This sick SOB would have just pulled his gun sooner had Whitney said "sorry, no".

Just like with Mickey, the perp having a gun took away any fighting chance she might have had to save her life.