GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Joe Friday]

IMHO just watching Holt during the crime and being incarcerated, his constant worried, fearful, even remorse for what happened to WH, behavior strikes me that's he more "secure" being in police custody. If you watch Holt's reactions, read his interviews you might see some of this and wonder too.

Having a brother with full blown schizo-affective diorder, I rule this out. But Holt could have a bi polar/histrionic manic-depressive disability. Typically associated with these disorders are the "self medicating habits" of excessive drinking, chain smoking, drugs, some extremely harsh like Meth, Crack, Heroin, even Bath Salts. And I've yet to read interviews supporting Holt having these types of habits.

I just feel Holt might be a patsy fall guy. Who and Why may/may not be proven in his trial or even discovered. But I've strong suspicions
of a higher power involved in a bigger scenario.

Holt's Dec 14th trial is soon, and hopefully complete justice and closure will bring an end to this horribly sad ordeal and the unnecessary loss of Whitney's life.

BBM

JH's trial wont be held for at least a year. The judge set a date but that is just a formality and the trial is likely a year away.

Being such a highly publicized case I won't be surprised if it was two years before we see a trial. JMO

Weber set a Dec. 14 trial date for Holt, but that was a formality. It is likely that a trial is a year away. Conor Huseby, Holt's court-appointed attorney, declined to answer questions about the case.

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/whitney_heichels_accused_kille.html

 

[La Louve]

IMHO just watching Holt during the crime and being incarcerated, his constant worried, fearful, even remorse for what happened to WH, behavior strikes me that's he more "secure" being in police custody. If you watch Holt's reactions, read his interviews you might see some of this and wonder too.

Having a brother with full blown schizo-affective diorder, I rule this out. But Holt could have a bi polar/histrionic manic-depressive disability. Typically associated with these disorders are the "self medicating habits" of excessive drinking, chain smoking, drugs, some extremely harsh like Meth, Crack, Heroin, even Bath Salts. And I've yet to read interviews supporting Holt having these types of habits.

I just feel Holt might be a patsy fall guy. Who and Why may/may not be proven in his trial or even discovered. But I've strong suspicions
of a higher power involved in a bigger scenario.

Holt's Dec 14th trial is soon, and hopefully complete justice and closure will bring an end to this horribly sad ordeal and the unnecessary loss of Whitney's life.

Since as far as we know the only two people who saw Holt during the crime were Holt and Whitney, I'm not sure where you are "watching Holt during the crime".

His two videotaped appearances before the court, which total not more than two minutes altogether, seem to me like a guy that is sorry for getting caught, not sorry for what he did. Again, if he was so safe and "secure in police custody", why would he need a suicide smock?

I really think you conspiracy theorists here are reaching so far out into left field for a ball that's sitting at home plate. Let's start seeing some real sleuthing on your parts and show us some facts to bolster all these nebulous suspicions. Otherwise, your statements here are just making you look like you care more about Holt than the true victim in this crime, Whitney Heichel.

IMHO

 

[BrownEyedGirl80]

Since as far as we know the only two people who saw Holt during the crime were Holt and Whitney, I'm not sure where you are "watching Holt during the crime".

His two videotaped appearances before the court, which total not more than two minutes altogether, seem to me like a guy that is sorry for getting caught, not sorry for what he did. Again, if he was so safe and "secure in police custody", why would he need a suicide smock?

I really think you conspiracy theorists here are reaching so far out into left field for a ball that's sitting at home plate. Let's start seeing some real sleuthing on your parts and show us some facts to bolster all these nebulous suspicions. Otherwise, your statements here are just making you look like you care more about Holt than the true victim in this crime, Whitney Heichel.

IMHO

I'm pretty sure what Xavier was referring to when stating "watching Holt during the crime" was JH's actions/behavior after Whitney went missing and before he was arrested (i.e., his actions as described by his wife, the friends who picked him up while walking, the things police saw him do while under surveillance, etc.) The member didn't mean that he/she literally watched Holt during the crime of abducting and murdering Whitney, but rather reading the reports about the crimes he committed of disposing of evidence, lying to police, etc.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by Joe Friday
BBM

Why would JH call Starbucks at 6:08 AM. Whitney didn't leave the house until 6:45 AM so we know it couldn't have been Whitney making the phone call and she wasn't with him when he made the call.

Not sure if it says on the affidavit if he called the same Starbucks as the one Whitney worked at or not, but I wonder if he was calling to see if Whitney was already working or if she was expected to work that morning?

If he did call and inquire about Whitney I would think that goes towards premeditation of planing on confronting Whitney outside of her apartment when she left for work.

JMO

The affidavit redacted the telephone number but did say it was the number to the Starbucks Whitney worked at.
<snipped by PIM>

Jash, can you tell me on what pdf page that redaction and reference to the Starbucks telephone call was on? Thanks.

(My pdf only has a few 'blank' pages with black redaction marks on them.)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

One of the only things I can add to this discussion, since every other thought or idea I had has been previously expressed by at least one other person (and usually more eloquently!) is the question of whether JH belonged to a gym. There's been some discussion here about whether he went back to his apartment after ditching the vehicle at Walmart to clean up and/or change clothes. There was also some talk about whether he stashed somewhere the electronics he claimed were stolen. A gym would give him access to a shower, locker and possibly change of clothing.

The other thing I am wondering about is whether his black leather jacket, purportedly stolen, was ever discovered. If he was wearing it while attacking Whitney, there may be some good evidence on it.

Interesting thought about the gym membership, but I'm guessing he wouldn't have had one if they were 'barely scraping by' on Amanda's salary alone (and she appears to agree with this job/money stress in the interviews with LE). He apparently hadn't held a job for a awhile and only had this new one at Canteen Services in Portland (45 minute drive away) for two weeks or less. He tells detectives during his interview they only have $50 left in their bank account.

 

[newsjunkie]

Jash, can you tell me on what pdf page that redaction and reference to the Starbucks telephone call was on? Thanks.

(My pdf only has a few 'blank' pages with black redaction marks on them.)

I'm not Jash, but the info you are looking for is on pg 33.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoCoKSEyes
Does Amanda filing for divorce allow her to testify against Jonathan in a different way or more effective way than if she had not filed? My thought is yes. In that way, her filing so quickly may be of benefit to the prosecution and might be the best way she can help.

Good question. IMO Amanda is a <modsnip> witness for both sides.
But why should she just benefit the prosecution?

She could be called as a witness by either side, depending on what the attorneys for those sides think advantageous to their case. The divorce doesn't really make her 'more available' or more effective, either way. The only thing about being divorced (if she is by then) or not would be that, if she were to have been still married by time of trial, I believe there are some statutes in place that can protect a wife from 'having to incriminate' her spouse. Legal experts I'm sure can phrase that more precisely.

My point is, if she's not his spouse at time of trial, I doubt it matters one way or the other. And if she still happens to be his spouse at time of trial (not likely), she would not be forced to incriminate him against her will. I don't see that as an issue, here.

 

[Glow]

I too thought that JH looked relieved and "sad" in the "after" photos...


But why would that fact that he looks scared and vulnerable and/or relieved point away from him being the only suspect?

There have been tons of studies done on the psychology of confession. Most people feel better when they have a big problem just "taken out of their hands so to speak."

A good example of this is children. Ever notice how at night when they are being tucked in and they are analyzing their day that little confessions will come out? It is a normal human desire to process and lighten our mental load when possible. Most religions address this with some type of confession system "built" in to their religious practice.

For JH to feel that way would be a normal human reaction. Hes been running around hopped up on caffeine and alcohol (if he did indeed drink those drinks) sexually assaulting and committing murder AND THEN having to come down from the chemicals and the adrenaline of all that.

Then, if he is telling the truth he walked around all day. Then he got picked up and taken home and had to "pretend" to have been robbed. Who knows how little sleep or food he got during all of this. So by Tuesday night he was caught in a trap of his own making and what trap could be more stressful than that?

He might have "felt" like he was being watched but not able to "prove" it to himself which would have heightened his paranoia. That along with a suspicious wife, both his home ground (where he lived) and his church community turned upside down over the missing Whitney and ALL this time he is living with what he did.

Only a true psychopath would be able to handle that calmly!

So JH finds out the police have his DNA on the steering wheel of the dead girls car. He must have thought, whoa. Ok. Well, there you have it.

I mean, even a perp that is running will stop and put his hands up if he senses that he cant get away. How is this different?

I dont think JH was a hard core killer. But he has crossed a line now. Now that he has crossed that line, knows that he can? He is a danger to society. Its just that simple.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm re-reading the affidavit for search warrant and am at the part where it describes LE's first interview of JH. Re his "stolen" phone, JH says his wife called AT&T and discovered there was "data usage and a call made at 7 am".

By all accounts and scenarios, he would have been with WH at that time. Who the heck did he call? Does this confirm he wasn't driving (hard to drive while holding a phone and possibly a gun)? Could WH have tried to make an SOS call from his phone?

ETA: Never mind -- had I just kept reading, I would have found out that the last call made was actually the one at 6:08 AM to Starbucks.

The cell phone accounts are entirely confusing. Without AT&T records to consult, I doubt they could be sorted out until trial.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm wondering if Clint Heichel felt they were maybe JUST acquaintances of the Holts, why would they trust them with their home and valuables while away on vacation or going out of town?

And they did some things together, maybe not alot, but nonetheless, it is what it is.

Maybe this is meaningless, but I would never turn over the keys to my home and everything in it to "acquaintances"...

That's not as confusing, in a sense, as the fact that the JH&AH had only been at those apts for 2 months. I'm sure, as there were other friends from their cong living at that apt complex (that were reported by CH to LE, though JH was not) , that someone else must've plant/fish sat for them prior (they had annual summer trips with Whitney's Ritmiller family). So who had the keys before that--and why did that duty switch to the JH&AH and in such a short period of time? And might another couple in that complex also have had their apt key at one time?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm not Jash, but the info you are looking for is on pg 33.

Thanks, newsjunkie!

Do you Oregonians have a different pdf than out-of-staters? All I have on page 33 is two 1-inch redaction marks, one line apart. They are not labeled. No reference to Starbucks.

 

[La Louve]

I'm re-reading the affidavit for search warrant and am at the part where it describes LE's first interview of JH. Re his "stolen" phone, JH says his wife called AT&T and discovered there was "data usage and a call made at 7 am".ETA: Never mind -- had I just kept reading, I would have found out that the last call made was actually the one at 6:08 AM to Starbucks.

The cell phone accounts are entirely confusing. Without AT&T records to consult, I doubt they could be sorted out until trial.

The key for me there is JH says his wife called AT&T.....

That was probably another lie Holt told police early on.

 

[newsjunkie]

Thanks, newsjunkie!

Do you Oregonians have a different pdf than out-of-staters? All I have on page 33 is two 1-inch redaction marks, one line apart. They are not labeled. No reference to Starbucks.

I'm not from Oregon, but I had no problem downloading the pdf. Some have commented that theirs looked the way you describe on a Mac, but when they looked at it on a PC it worked.

I offered before, and the offer still stands, to send a copy of what I have to anyone who PM's me their email address.

 

[Boodles]

Thanks, newsjunkie!

Do you Oregonians have a different pdf than out-of-staters? All I have on page 33 is two 1-inch redaction marks, one line apart. They are not labeled. No reference to Starbucks.

Are you on an Apple device? If so, some of the pages are blank with redaction black marks. A PC will let you view the entire pages.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Question about Holt, need some help clearing this up.

Holt talked about his *advertiser censored* addictions, child *advertiser censored* and also his crush/obsession on Whitney. Has anyone proven their was child *advertiser censored* on Holt's laptop? I've always thought child *advertiser censored* and that whole disgusting world of it, to get that stuff you need to get it directly from someone, not like downloading it on the internet. If I'm correct on this thought, if Holt actually had child *advertiser censored* stuff, who gave Holt the child *advertiser censored*? If he did get it from someone, then LE should pursue those perps as well no matter where it leads to.

Has anyone validated Holt had this obsession on Whitney? We know Holt admitted this obsession. Is there any proof of anyone hearing Holt talk about her. Has LE confiscated from Holt any of Whitney's belongings?

Xavier, you need to read the entire pdf (I know, I didn't want to, either). LE confiscated all the computer equipment from his backpack and they have given it to a computer expert to discover what's on it. But that can take "months" according to Gleason's words.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

[/B]

Maybe Holt's wife needed the car for work and maybe Holt took the metro bus from time to time..

JH told LE that that morning was the first time he'd ever tried to take the MAX train to work. He had taken AH's car to work before (specifically that Monday, the day before the murder when his motorcycle wouldn't start).

If his motorcycle wouldn't start that Monday, somehow it doesn't surprise me that it reportedly wouldn't start Tuesday, either.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Xavier, respectfully, I have noticed you mis-stating facts several times, saying that we "know" certain things. This causes confusion and starts rumors.

Lol, yes...and I do enough of a good job of confusing myself. So stop that.

 

[Sasquatch]

Xavier, you need to read the entire pdf (I know, I didn't want to, either). LE confiscated all the computer equipment from his backpack and they have given it to a computer expert to discover what's on it. But that can take "months" according to Gleason's words.

Page 3 of 44 on the Holt1.pdf does mention the admissions made by JH led to the investigation of "Encouraging child sex abuse in the 2nd Degree" in Multnomah County. I am not sure how the system works, if after his trial in Clackamas County, that the additional charges of Burglary and Encouraging Child Sex Abuse will be tried in Multnomah County after the verdict.

It sounds as if LE followed Oregon's legal procedure of confiscating the equipment, to further investigate. If this was JH's only charge, he most likely would not be arrested at the initial confiscation according to this website. Because they have JH currently held until his Clackamas Co. trial, they have a lot of time to gather evidence.

From the Oregon Crimes Sex Guide :
http://www.oregoncrimes.com/sexcrimes.htm

"With some crimes like downloading / possession of child *advertiser censored*, officers do not arrest you right away. Typically, officers show up with a search warrant and seize computers / hard drives and interview the suspect. Once the computers / hard drives are analyzed at a later date, the case is turned over to the District Attorney's Office. The DA's Office then brings the case before a grand jury and charges of encouraging child sexual abuse follow. Officers then arrest the suspect on the indictment warrant. This can take several weeks and sometimes longer.

 

[Sasquatch]

JH told LE that that morning was the first time he'd ever tried to take the MAX train to work. He had taken AH's car to work before (specifically that Monday, the day before the murder when his motorcycle wouldn't start).

If his motorcycle wouldn't start that Monday, somehow it doesn't surprise me that it reportedly wouldn't start Tuesday, either.

Cleveland Max Station, off of SE Burnside and 8th St would be the closest Max station to Heatherwood Apartments. Because WH could not take an immediate left on SE Burnside (HWY 26) she would have to loop around the blocks to get to her place of work anyways. Taking someone from the Heatherwood Apartments, west to Hogan/242nd then North to Burnside, and hang a left on Burnside, would not be too far out of a person's way to drop them off at Max. After she would have dropped JH off she could easily just jumped right back on to SE Burnside at the Carls Jr. and go SE straight to the Starbucks Drive Thru, maybe even being only a few minutes late to work. The problem is, if someone pulls a gun on you on Hogan, before you get to Powell Blvd, and you are forced to hang a right on Powell Blvd, that is pretty much a straight shot to Dodge Park Roslyn Lake area. That road takes you out near their Kingdom Hall Congregation as well. The road goes past Sam Barlow High School, then turns into Nurseries and small farms.

 

[masyann]

I don't think it's a stupid question at all! I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but I'm thinking people who are accused probably almost always plead not guilty, at least at first, even if they confessed? It seems like it'd leave more room for negotation later on, possibly. All JMO.

Sorry OT but that was too funny...The part about the lawyer.:rocker: