Othram - General Discussion

[Triss]

@othram I know I had suggested a few Kraft cases but also just wanted to add this one in.

St. Louis Jane Doe (1983)

This was a case from my hometown, and seems like there hasn't been much traction on this case. It reminds me greatly of the Precious Doe case from Kansas City in 2001, due in part to the young age of the victim and the brutality of it. Without a face to identify the victim though, they would pretty much be going off DNA to try to found out her identity.

St. Louis Jane Doe is often on my mind. I can't get over how brutal her murder was. We don't know who she was or who hurt her. It is my hope that DNA will give her her name back and that her killer(s) will rot in prison.

 

[doggybag2355]

Are we allowed to suggest cases for Othram?

 

[JovanSrna]

Are we allowed to suggest cases for Othram?

Yes! They're super responsive here. I've made a few recommendations in the past.

 

[doggybag2355]

I guess I'll post my wishlist cases here:

These ones I suggested the LE Offices to the DNA Doe Project, but they never really had much interest:

"Rodney Jones":
NM - Luna Co., WhtMale UP8323, 30-50, chained to telephone pole, May'99

Onondaga JD 1976:
NY NY - Onondaga Co, WhtMale UP6056, 25-35, in Oswego river, Mano Cornuto amulet, Jun'76

This one DID have interest, but the investigator told me that lab costs would most likely have to be covered by donations:

Morrill JD 1981:
NE NE - Morrill Co., NtvMale 1337UMNE, 20-25, may be Navajo RR worker, Jun'81

And these ones are just ones I'd like to be solved, but haven't had time to ask the LE to get in contact with a genealogy group:

Live Oak County JD:
TX TX - Live Oak Co, WhtFem UP4626, 24-34, on creek bank, DVF glasses, Nov'80

Camp Verde JD:
AZ Camp Verde, UnkMale UP52930, 40-70, under tree by Verde River, 25 May 2015

And this one might be difficult due to extremely degraded and damaged DNA, but this case is so strange that I'd love to see closure to it:

Whatcom JD:
WA WA - Bellingham, WhtMale 862UMWA, 27-37, in Georgia Pacific chimney, Sep'87

 

[othram]

I guess I'll post my wishlist cases here:

These ones I suggested the LE Offices to the DNA Doe Project, but they never really had much interest:

"Rodney Jones":
NM - Luna Co., WhtMale UP8323, 30-50, chained to telephone pole, May'99

Onondaga JD 1976:
NY NY - Onondaga Co, WhtMale UP6056, 25-35, in Oswego river, Mano Cornuto amulet, Jun'76

This one DID have interest, but the investigator told me that lab costs would most likely have to be covered by donations:

Morrill JD 1981:
NE NE - Morrill Co., NtvMale 1337UMNE, 20-25, may be Navajo RR worker, Jun'81

And these ones are just ones I'd like to be solved, but haven't had time to ask the LE to get in contact with a genealogy group:

Live Oak County JD:
TX TX - Live Oak Co, WhtFem UP4626, 24-34, on creek bank, DVF glasses, Nov'80

Camp Verde JD:
AZ Camp Verde, UnkMale UP52930, 40-70, under tree by Verde River, 25 May 2015

And this one might be difficult due to extremely degraded and damaged DNA, but this case is so strange that I'd love to see closure to it:

Whatcom JD:
WA WA - Bellingham, WhtMale 862UMWA, 27-37, in Georgia Pacific chimney, Sep'87

What a list! We will take a look and see if LE is interested and if there is evidence remaining.

 

[doggybag2355]

What a list! We will take a look and see if LE is interested and if there is evidence remaining.

Working a lot with the UID Wiki gives me a lot to choose from! If you guys need cases, there's plenty I can probably dig up.

 

[othram]

Working a lot with the UID Wiki gives me a lot to choose from! If you guys need cases, there's plenty I can probably dig up.

Thanks. We definitely appreciate the process... its a lot of work just to find and research the case. Then we have to find out if there is evidence available and suitable for testing. Then we need to secure approval and funding. Then the project begins....

 

[doggybag2355]

Thanks. We definitely appreciate the process... its a lot of work just to find and research the case. Then we have to find out if there is evidence available and suitable for testing. Then we need to secure approval and funding. Then the project begins....

I understand. From what I've heard, the Morrill County Doe seems like the most willing out of the list right now from the ones I've contacted, the case manager seemed to express interest when I talked to him about the genealogy route, I just know funding will be a roadblock with it.

 

[othram]

I understand. From what I've heard, the Morrill County Doe seems like the most willing out of the list right now from the ones I've contacted, the case manager seemed to express interest when I talked to him about the genealogy route, I just know funding will be a roadblock with it.

Funding is the easiest to fix of the roadblocks that face these cases...

 

[doggybag2355]

The Onondaga Doe case is also the closest I have to a case in my hometown. My county and the neighboring counties don't have any.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

@othram Considering the Sumter County Does were just recently identified, I was wondering if you were familiar with or had been suggested the Harris County Does case out of Houston? Harris County Does - Wikipedia
Unknown mystery couple, 40+ year old mystery.

 

[othram]

@othram Considering the Sumter County Does were just recently identified, I was wondering if you were familiar with or had been suggested the Harris County Does case out of Houston? Harris County Does - Wikipedia
Unknown mystery couple, 40+ year old mystery.

Thank you! This is the county next door to us. We will investigate.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

@othram Considering the Sumter County Does were just recently identified, I was wondering if you were familiar with or had been suggested the Harris County Does case out of Houston? Harris County Does - Wikipedia
Unknown mystery couple, 40+ year old mystery.

For future reference:
The Harris county Does' WS thread:
TX - TX - Houston, WhtFem UP701 & WhtMale UP703, 18-30, in woods, Jan'81

 

[imstilla.grandma]

[URL="https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/thomas-picard-11-fall-river-bristol-county-oct-2-1988.552210/"]MA - Thomas Picard, 11, Fall River, Bristol County, Oct. 2, 1988[/URL]

https://greenvillejournal.com/news/dna-is-solving-greenvilles-decades-old-cold-cases/

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/244151.pdf

List of suspected perpetrators of crimes identified with GEDmatch - Wikipedia
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/law-enforcement/investigations/cold-case-investigations
Cold Case Investigations

https://www.tennessean.com/get-access/?return=https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2020/12/01/rutherford-county-hires-othram-1978-cold-case-dna-profile/3785076001/

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Retired homicide detective James Gamber said they have a DNA profile they believe is the suspect's profile.

It was placed in the national database called CODIS (Combined DNA Index System) over a decade ago.

Gamber told the News 4 Tucson Investigators, " We've never received a match." Detectives believe that person is the killer.

So, they are taking the next step, in the scientific evolution in Genealogy DNA which has been successful throughout the United States in identifying suspects in homicide cases added Gamber.

Pima County Sheriff's Department is believed to among the first in the state to use Genealogy DNA.

Gamber said, "Doing Genealogy DNA will take us back we hope to the suspect's family tree."

The DNA is obtained by people who use over the counter DNA kits.

Gamber said, "Using that DNA and by investigative efforts on that we can trace back to the male suspect."

Chief Deputy Rick Kastigar was the Public Information Officer in 1986 when the teenager's body was discovered. He said, "It's an old case that especially cops who have experience back into that decade still feel in their heart for the family."
N4T Investigators: New DNA technology may close 35 year old cold case

 

[othram]

View attachment 280796
MA - Thomas Picard, 11, Fall River, Bristol County, Oct. 2, 1988
https://greenvillejournal.com/news/dna-is-solving-greenvilles-decades-old-cold-cases/
DNA is solving Greenville's decades-old cold cases - GREENVILLE JOURNAL

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/244151.pdf

List of suspected perpetrators of crimes identified with GEDmatch - Wikipedia
Cold Case Investigations

https://www.tennessean.com/get-access/?return=https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2020/12/01/rutherford-county-hires-othram-1978-cold-case-dna-profile/3785076001/

That last case you linked to is a case we are already working on

 

[doggybag2355]

This is probably been brought up here, but have you thought about taking on the Boy in the Box case? I know that DNA Extraction/sequencing will most likely be extremely difficult, but if the DNA for Joseph Henry Loveless and the Hudson John Doe are possible, I'd assume this might be too.

 

[othram]

This is probably been brought up here, but have you thought about taking on the Boy in the Box case? I know that DNA Extraction/sequencing will most likely be extremely difficult, but if the DNA for Joseph Henry Loveless and the Hudson John Doe are possible, I'd assume this might be too.

Vidocq Society Believes They Are Close To Figuring Out 'The Boy In The Box' In 61-Year-Old Philly Cold Case

Someone is working it?

 

[wary]

Vidocq Society Believes They Are Close To Figuring Out 'The Boy In The Box' In 61-Year-Old Philly Cold Case

Someone is working it?

Over in the main thread, PA - PA - Philadelphia, 'Boy in the Box' WhtMale 4UMPA, 4-6, Feb'57 #2
there was talk that Barbara Venter had worked on it, but was not able to get enough DNA to proceed. And talk that you, @othram had new techniques that made it much more likely that you could do the job.

 

[othram]

Over in the main thread, PA - PA - Philadelphia, 'Boy in the Box' WhtMale 4UMPA, 4-6, Feb'57 #2
there was talk that Barbara Venter had worked on it, but was not able to get enough DNA to proceed. And talk that you, @othram had new techniques that made it much more likely that you could do the job.

We would love to help. We will try to reach out and thanks for the heads up on the thread.