PA - 11 killed, 6 injured in mass shooting at Pittsburgh Synagogue, 27 Oct 2018 *guilty, death sentence*

[kaen]

I am so sorry to all those affected by this awful crime. I am also sorry that we are all here once again, scratching ours heads and trying to figure out how to make it stop. As most know, I work with high schoolers. They need leadership, love and concern, and people unafraid to expect the best from them. We need leaders who unite us on a national and local level. Leaders who are unafraid to embrace all views and call out --isms that support and beget hate. We need an increased understanding of the causal factors that encourage people (all people) to move to the margins---social, economic, and societal-- and leaders who demonstrate how to move through them. We don't have that in our leadership on either side of any aisle. Just that we can say on "side of any aisle" means we have a leadership problem.

Yesterday, Matthew Shepard was finally laid to rest in the National Cathedral. He had not been buried to date for fear that his grave would be vandalized. He was welcomed home by the Episcopalian leadership. It has taken 20 years for him to have a safe place to be buried. We can do better. We can find compassion and empathy. We need our leaders to lead and set an example. We need our leaders to hold the bar higher for all in this country because we will all benefit.

 

[margarita25]

You guys have me reflecting on the this whole “naming vs not naming mass shooters”. And considering I’ve got several of these cases “under my belt” so to speak, I will say this:

If we are to not name mass shooters then that does not mean we don’t name serial killers either? Because under both of these classifications, the perp can feel “glorified” in being named?

Just a thought.

I wonder what the stats are these days on “mass shootings vs serial killings”.
—

WARNING GRAPHIC AUDIO: ACTIVE SHOOTER
Officer Shot - We're pinned down under gunfire
Police Audio of the Response to the Pittsburgh Tree of Life Synagogue Mass Shooting by the Pittsburgh Police Department.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=538918606535426

(Ugh thanks for the Graphic Warning. I’ll pass at the moment.)

What can we say? I have the same feeling. Ask "Again?" Ask "When and where will the next one be?" It's hard to not feel hopeless.

I feel hopeless about these shootings.

Each of us can do his or her own part. And maybe we can each make differences. But unfortunately we can’t touch and help everyone in the world.

What is the solution guys? These are grown males sometimes, argh, so frustrated.

 

[margarita25]

“The names of the deceased victims in the synagogue shooting will be released at 9 a.m. ET Sunday, Pittsburgh Mayor Bill Peduto told CNN’s Wolf Bitzer.

The mayor said there was "really strong insistence by the FBI that we identify everybody with 100% accuracy before giving out any information, for the families' sake."”

Live updates: Mass shooting at Pittsburgh synagogue - CNN

 

[bluesneakers]

You guys have me reflecting on the this whole “naming vs not naming mass shooters”. And considering I’ve got several of these cases “under my belt” so to speak, I will say this:

If we are to not name mass shooters then that does not mean we don’t name serial killers either? Because under both of these classifications, the perp can feel “glorified” in being named?

Just a thought.

Do you mean use their names, or give them nicknames?

I think serial killers are mostly in it for the killing (look how many aren't named or famous, or have never drawn any attention to themselves) and mass shooters and bombers (the two this week, for instance) are more in it for the message and the glory.

I'm not sure how the difference applies to naming or not naming them. Still thinking.

 

[rosemadderlake]

If everyone here who disagrees with how MSM reports these crimes, maybe they could stop sharing the news, photos, updates and content?

Oh yeah, I forget.

We still need journalists and rely on them to do exactly what they’re doing so that we can know what’s actually happening in our communities.

So easy to complain and point fingers, though, when that same news makes us uncomfortable.

Bbm. Exactly. Jumping off your excellent post EtTu.

Not only that, some of us do not belong to Twitter and never have.

Some of us have never belonged to Facebook.

Some of us only know what is happening through our free press, and all those upstanding journalists who put themselves in harms' way to bring news in real time to the public. --In 911, hurricanes, floods, fires, mass shootings, and when under fire themselves, like this past week, and when under constant threat themselves by the highest office in this country, while covering the highest office in the country.

The free press provides those direct quotes that come from the WH's preferred choice and method of communication for those of us who do not tweet or follow social media.

Some of us rely and know well those extraordinary minds that bring us a carefully considered opinion. And, have always relied on these individuals for an entire lifetime as the winds of change and people move through our lives.

Our journalists stand side by side with law enforcement in a crisis. Our media helped bring down a madman this week. Our media helps us to sort out fact from fiction. Because facts are checked...

So when I hear the drumbeat criticism of the media or the drumbeat that they are the enemy of the people, I have to wonder where is this coming from? Surely not from my world.

How many perps use social media themselves for their fame? Apparently this shooter did. And what society gives that fame to them?

Guess what? We now live in a society where some hire armed guards just to worship.

The media has reported that some think we need more good guys with guns...

Ok then... Good to know.

Meanwhile, there is unspeakable loss and people on the ground struggling to understand what just happened today in Pittsburg. And the brave journalists, both local and national help the rest of us trying to understand, too.

 

[CocoChanel]

You guys have me revel in for on the this whole “naming vs not naming mass shooters”. And considering I’ve got several of these cases “under my belt” so to speak, I will say this:

If we are to not name mass shooters then that does not mean we don’t name serial killers either? Because under both of these classifications, the perp can feel “glorified” in being named?

That’s a good question, but my gut says there is a difference. My guess is the psychological make-up of each of those categories is not the same, and that while mass shooters think they are making a bold statement for the world to see, serial killers commit their awful deeds for a different reason. They both may enjoy the notoriety, but one type does so under the radar while the other type chooses to act in public. But I am just guessing. I have no background in psychological motivation, just an undergrad degree in Websleuths. I joke, but the amount of time I have studied here since 2009 should earn me something, no?!?!

 

[margarita25]

That’s a good question, but my gut says there is a difference. My guess is the psychological make-up of each of those categories is not the same, and that while mass shooters think they are making a bold statement for the world to see, serial killers commit their awful deeds for a different reason. They both may enjoy the notoriety, but one type does so under the radar while the other type chooses to act in public. But I am just guessing. I have no background in psychological motivation, just an undergrad degree in Websleuths. I joke, but the amount of time I have studied here since 2009 should earn me something, no?!?!

Love it. Undergrad at WS! Lol

Do you mean use their names, or give them nicknames?

I think serial killers are mostly in it for the killing (look how many aren't named or famous, or have never drawn any attention to themselves) and mass shooters and bombers (the two this week, for instance) are more in it for the message and the glory.

I'm not sure how the difference applies to naming or not naming them. Still thinking.

Not nicknames, their real names.

(The FBI does like to name bank robbers and finds it an effective tool, but that’s different as the perps have not been apprehended yet.)

It seems the FBI had a campaign in 2014 not to name mass shooters iirc.

Anyway I dont want to get all off topic.

—
ETA:

I’ll guess I’ll ask this...are they suddenly not going to shoot a place up bc they are not going to be named? Not sure how much of deterrent this is? Or Is it?

I posted a book of links on the subject which has thoughts on both sides of this argument.

Like I said, on focus here, today’s shooting in PA.

 

[bluesneakers]

What is the solution guys? These are grown males sometimes, argh, so frustrated.

[sbm]
Dear America, here’s how other countries stop mass shootings

NEJM:
How to Stop Mass Shootings

ACTIONS TO PREVENT FIREARM VIOLENCE

• Improve background-check policies
• Require background checks for private-party transfers
• Require state and local agencies to report prohibiting events
• Fully implement the existing federal background-check requirement
• Clarify definitions of prohibiting events
• Strengthen enforcement efforts
• Consider a permit-to-purchase approach
• Prohibit release of firearms until background checks are completed
• Enact gun-violence restraining order policies

 

[margarita25]

It's true. There's a great documentary I watched called I Am. It was abouthow a movie producer went around the world and talked to all the most brilliant minds and scientists in order to determine whether humans are inherently evil, selfish and violent or inherently coooperative and good.

I won't spoil the film but in it some researchers show how simply smiling and being positive affects the actual air around you. It causes changes in molecules and changes people you encounter.

Well need to smile more at others and try to spread kindness like @margarita25!!

The Physics of Emotion: Candace Pert on Feeling Go(o)d • Six Seconds

It's an all around incredible documentary and it really has a lot of other good stuff in it. Amazing. Like how the earth has a pulse that can be tracked and how it sort of sighs deeply every time there is a horrible, massive scale tragedy.

Sounds like real hippy stuff but it's all backed by real science and research which I like.

It's available on Netflix I think:

(Omg I love this I can’t wait to check it out!!!!!

Yes I feel this in my own life, gitana. I do believe this to be true, moo. Kindness, empathy, smiles, relaxed vibes, goes a long way. Good vibes, mon!)

 

[margarita25]

[sbm]
Dear America, here’s how other countries stop mass shootings

NEJM:
How to Stop Mass Shootings

ACTIONS TO PREVENT FIREARM VIOLENCE

• Improve background-check policies
• Require background checks for private-party transfers
• Require state and local agencies to report prohibiting events
• Fully implement the existing federal background-check requirement
• Clarify definitions of prohibiting events
• Strengthen enforcement efforts
• Consider a permit-to-purchase approach
• Prohibit release of firearms until background checks are completed
• Enact gun-violence restraining order policies

Jumping off this, from above in one of the articles I posted re: naming mass shooters, these were some strict implementations suggested for the media:

“Limit the name and likeness of the individual in reporting after initial identification, except when the alleged assailant is still at large and doing so would aid in the assailant's capture.

• Refuse to broadcast/publish self-serving statements, photos, videos and/or manifestos made by the individual. Elevate the names and likenesses of all victims killed and/or injured to send the message their lives are more important than the killer's actions.

• Recognize that the prospect of infamy could serve as a motivating factor for other individuals to kill others and could inspire copycat crimes. Keep this responsibility in mind when reporting.

• Agree to promote data and analysis from experts in mental health, public safety, and other relevant professions to support further steps to help eliminate the motivation behind mass murder.

• Recognize that the individual's name and likeness is irrelevant to media coverage of such acts unless the alleged assailant is at large.“

Mother of victim: Media has to rethink how it covers mass shootings

—-

Omggg you guys just reminded me I. Came across an article I hadn’t seen I don’t think in the FBIs website re peeattack behaviors is mass shooters.

ETA: I think this it. Going to read:
FBI Releases Study of Pre-Attack Behaviors of Active Shooters — FBI

 

[bluesneakers]

The Attack on Pittsburgh’s Squirrel Hill Was an Attack on Sanctuary

The Tree of Life synagogue that Robert Bowers stormed, killing multiple members and police officers, is an anchor institution of Pittsburgh’s Squirrel Hill, which boasts a heavy concentration of Jewish institutions, families, kosher delis, grocers, bookstores, and other businesses.

But calling it the city’s “Jewish neighborhood” obscures the diversity and variety of people and places that compose it. On any given day you’ll swipe arms at bus stops and cafes with people from a broad range of ethnicities and nationalities. Many of them are students from universities such as Pitt, Carnegie Mellon, and Chatham that all rest just beyond Squirrel Hill’s borders.
...
Signs in front of houses read: “No matter where you are from, we’re glad you’re our neighbor,” in English, Spanish, and Arabic. This, literally, is Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood.
...
“I have always felt comfortable there,” says Janis Burley Wilson, president of the August Wilson African American Cultural Center. “My mother took me and my sister shopping there when we were kids. It’s a neighborhood I felt comfortable having my kids walk on their own. Diversity in population and amenities—that’s what Squirrel Hill represents to me.”

 

[margarita25]

Here's what we know so far about Robert Bowers, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting suspect

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us...-profile/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[CocoChanel]

Jumping off this, from above in one of the articles I posted re: naming mass shooters, these were some strict implementations suggested for the media:

“Limit the name and likeness of the individual in reporting after initial identification, except when the alleged assailant is still at large and doing so would aid in the assailant's capture.

• Refuse to broadcast/publish self-serving statements, photos, videos and/or manifestos made by the individual. Elevate the names and likenesses of all victims killed and/or injured to send the message their lives are more important than the killer's actions.

• Recognize that the prospect of infamy could serve as a motivating factor for other individuals to kill others and could inspire copycat crimes. Keep this responsibility in mind when reporting.

• Agree to promote data and analysis from experts in mental health, public safety, and other relevant professions to support further steps to help eliminate the motivation behind mass murder.

• Recognize that the individual's name and likeness is irrelevant to media coverage of such acts unless the alleged assailant is at large.“

Mother of victim: Media has to rethink how it covers mass shootings

—-

Omggg you guys just reminded me I. Came across an article I hadn’t seen I don’t think in the FBIs website re peeattack behaviors is mass shooters.

ETA: I think this it. Going to read:
FBI Releases Study of Pre-Attack Behaviors of Active Shooters — FBI

Good stuff.

 

[bluesneakers]

Here's what we know so far about Robert Bowers, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting suspect

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/synagogue-attack-suspect-robert-bowers-profile/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Someone asked about this upthread:

He was not known to law enforcement

"At this point we have no knowledge that Bowers was known to law enforcement before today," said Bob Jones, FBI Pittsburgh special agent in charge.

 

[margarita25]

This is where my brain is at.

Off the top of my head I’m going to randomly name some recent mass shootings:

1Texas church:
Texas Church Shooting
2Vegas
2017 Las Vegas shooting - Wikipedia
3Pulse Night Club
Orlando nightclub shooting - Wikipedia
4Aurora theater
2012 Aurora shooting - Wikipedia
5Sandy Hook (Not recent)
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Wikipedia
6Jewish synagogue
11 Killed in Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre; Suspect Charged With 29 Counts
7 Charleston Church/ DR
Charleston church shooting - Wikipedia
8Planned Parenthood
Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting - Wikipedia
9Capital Gazette
Capital Gazette shooting - Wikipedia
10.Santa Fe Texas School Shooting
Santa Fe High School shooting - Wikipedia

Data:

1. Shooter’s Ages?
(School shooters younger?)
(Disgruntled employees older?)
2. Populations targeted (religious, racial, personal (work)
3. Shooters Criminal History
4. Weapons/Ammo Used
5. All male?
6. Known drugs usage?
7. Psychological/ Mental Illness Factors
8. Suicide?
9. Further explosion rigging?
10. Social Media Activity / Ranting, etc.

(Family history, marital status, DV, occupation, we could go on forever here)

—I guess I’ll get to this when I finish my statistical reports on Family Annhilators (Chris Watts) and Child Abductors who kill the family (Closs)
(Being sarcastic. If I could only finish everything on my WS “to do” lists.

-/-

So what connects these shooters?

Hate.

Lack of Empathy.

Resentment.

Fear??

 

[gitana1]

Didn't he get the federal death penalty? He's at the US pen in Terre Haute, IN.

Maybe we should resume hangings in the town square for criminals like this.

That's not the solution. It's never deterred anyone.

 

[gitana1]

I didn’t say I want him to be beaten or raped or killed in jail. I just don’t want him to have privileges in jail that others do not have. Other prisoners have to fend for themselves, why not him?

JMO

Isn't that what you mean though? By general population? That he should be exposed to brutality?

Because guys like him generally are more at risk than the average prisoner. Because they're notorious.

I don't know. I feel like I'm beyond anger at this point. It's gets us nowhere. It's gotten us nothing.

The nations with the harshest and most barbaric laws still have horrible crimes.

I'm just sad. Very sad.

Just put the guy away forever. He's defective. Subhuman. Protect society from further harm from him. But otherwise subjecting him to brutality achieves nothing, IMO.

I don't know, friends.

 

[gitana1]

Teach tolerance, compassion empathy to all children starting from birth and continue this throughout their life. Elect leaders who are good role models.
Look for red flags for those that lack empathy and are filled with rage/hate. Get them mental health help asap.

Wow. I love this post.

 

[bluesneakers]

More from the CNN link about the shooter:

-He allegedly made anti-Semitic statements after his arrest
- He called those in migrant caravans 'invaders'
- He blamed Jews for helping migrant caravans

Hateful .

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

Isn't that what you mean though? By general population? That he should be exposed to brutality?

Because guys like him generally are more at risk than the average prisoner. Because they're notorious.

I don't know. I feel like I'm beyond anger at this point. It's gets us nowhere. It's gotten us nothing.

The nations with the harshest and most barbaric laws still have horrible crimes.

I'm just sad. Very sad.

Just put the guy away forever. He's defective. Subhuman. Protect society from further harm from him. But otherwise subjecting him to brutality achieves nothing, IMO.

I don't know, friends.

He needs no special privileges nor special protections.
Just like C Watts, right? And just like Daron Wint, right?

JMO