PA - 11 killed, 6 injured in mass shooting at Pittsburgh Synagogue, 27 Oct 2018 *guilty, death sentence*

[Fairy1]

(Despicable. I’m so angry and probably should take blood pressure medication before his court appearance tomorrow.)

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ETA: I have read a lot and watched a A Looooooot of Hitler documentaries. I’m sure some of you guys have too.

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So who will it be tomorrow?

Active Shooter | Ready.gov

“This page describes what to do if you find yourself in an active shooting event, how to recognize signs of potential violence around you, and what to expect after an active shooting takes place. Remember during an active shooting to RUN. HIDE. FIGHT.“

So, we're now having to "train" how to react in an active shooter situation. I remember my Mom telling me how they were "trained" to hide under their desks in case of an attack during the cold war. Futile.

Maybe just gives us a false sense of security when something over which we have no control occurs.

IMO, none of those slaughtered this week whilst grocery shopping or attending their place of worship were thinking about how to protect themselves against an active shooter. And why should they?

 

[CocoChanel]

So, we're now having to "train" how to react in an active shooter situation. I remember my Mom telling me how they were "trained" to hide under their desks in case of an attack during the cold war. Futile.

Maybe just gives us a false sense of security when something over which we have no control occurs.

IMO, none of those slaughtered this week whilst grocery shopping or attending their place of worship were thinking about how to protect themselves against an active shooter. And why should they?

I agree that we should not need to do this, because we live in the greatest country in the world, and we have always enjoyed freedom from fear. Until now.

I participated in an active shooter training at my organization. Knowledge is power, and there ARE things you can do to give yourself a fighting chance if faced with such a horrible situation. Some of the survivors of yesterday’s massacre stated that the active shooter training they had taken had helped them know what to do. It’s AWFUL that we have to think about and plan for these situations. But I think it would be more awful to resign our power to the perpetrators without doing all we can to defeat their evil purpose.

 

[margarita25]

So, we're now having to "train" how to react in an active shooter situation. I remember my Mom telling me how they were "trained" to hide under their desks in case of an attack during the cold war. Futile.

Maybe just gives us a false sense of security when something over which we have no control occurs.

IMO, none of those slaughtered this week whilst grocery shopping or attending their place of worship were thinking about how to protect themselves against an active shooter. And why should they?

IMO this is a reality we need to face, might as well be prepared. As pathetic as it is. Especially teachers, etc.

Of course I imagine the chances of being in an active shooter situation are probably relatively slim (or are they?). But I wouldn’t turn down the training. Especially the way things are headed, moo. I was actually looking at it earlier.

Sad state of affairs I know.

It’s stated above that this training helped some of the survivors.

 

[CocoChanel]

(Snipped
So who will it be tomorrow?

Active Shooter | Ready.gov

“This page describes what to do if you find yourself in an active shooting event, how to recognize signs of potential violence around you, and what to expect after an active shooting takes place. Remember during an active shooting to RUN. HIDE. FIGHT.“

Thank you Margarita.
This is very valuable information IMHO.

 

[The 13th]

Hi. I guess I don't have much to add that's new. I just wanted to be with others talking about this terrible mass murder.

When maybe a third (?) a fourth (?) (which number would be the tipping point?) of a country's citizens either engage in or support hate speech and political violence against their fellow citizens and others, can a society ever come back from that?

When your neighbor would rather see you dead than alive and different from them?

 

[margarita25]

Synagogue shooting 'will not break us. It will not ruin us,' rabbi says at vigil

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/28/us...ng-vigil/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

“At Sunday's service, the rabbis of the three congregations embraced after tearful tributes. Christian and Muslim leaders pledged to stand with members of the Jewish community.
"What happened yesterday will not break us. It will not ruin us," said a tearful Rabbi Jonathan Perlman, leader of New Light Congregation, which worshiped in the synagogue. "We will continue to thrive and sing and worship and learn together."“

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From above:
“Christian and Muslim leaders pledged to stand with members of the Jewish community.“

Wow just wow now if that isn’t a powerful statement I don’t know what is!?! Christians, Jews and Muslims all together? Am I dreaming?? See, this is exaaactly what I was talking about earlier today @human ).

 

[margarita25]

So,,some notes here.

Earlier I had compiled a list of 10 mass shootings. (There are soooo many but these were some big ones and mostly fairly recent off the top off my head).

Anyway I’ve been thinking a loooot about these shootings yesterday and today, and the shooters comparatively, and I think that I need to put school shooters and younger shooters in a different sub file for now...

So, I would like to start with 3.

1.Planned Parenthood
2.Vegas
3. Synagogue.

I’m thinking today about how could anyone look at a sweet old man like Melvin close up and pull the trigger.

And it again made me think of some material for a comparative analysis that Vegas did it in the dark, far removed, and not up close and personal.

So first ages of:

1. PP / RD
Age 57
2. Vegas
Age 64
3. Tree of Life
Age 46

—So it seems here that in the the above cases they were committed by males over 40, so we can see it’s not only our youth that has a problem.


I know it’s perhaps impossible to find rationality in the irrational, but I am darn curious about common factors these guys may share. And how to stop them or prevent them.

PS: you know you guys posted the crazy pic of that other guy and we were talking about how they all seem like the same person?

Well wait til you see RD, if you haven’t already:
Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Dear ruled incompetent by judge
(Videos on YouTube as well)

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[Charlot123]

InCel? I haven't seen anything about former marriages or relationships - familial or otherwise.

I think loneliness in general is more important. I can't imagine how the parent with kids would not take them out for a movie on Saturday, or pumpkin carving, or something else that would be fun. If you are alone, Internet and TV are your only windows into the world, and a recent study has demonstrated that not everyone can discriminate between facts and opinions. Hence some get these crazy ideas.

I wonder if he had a dog or a cat? Does not seem so from the story.

 

[Charlot123]

At the press conference this morning, the ME was asked about the Jewish requirements regarding burial and he answered that they were working closely with the clergy and doing their best to adhere to and honor the Orthodox tradition.

They are conservative, not Orthodox. A huge difference.

 

[margarita25]

They are conservative, not Orthodox. A huge difference.

This is educational.

Could you please explain the difference? Thank you.

 

[Indy Anna]

Muslim groups raise money for victims after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting

Just one day after the mass shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh, two Muslim groups have raised tens of thousands of dollars for the victims and their families.

The nonprofits Celebrate Mercy and MPower Change on Saturday created a crowdfunding campaign for the Tree of Life synagogue victims on LaunchGood, a Muslim crowdsourcing site.

more...

 

[Charlot123]

Agree, but the death penalty alone isn't going to solve this problem. We need to do more, something to stop the viral spread of radicalism and hate for others that turns into violence. Domestic terrorism.

I agree. What happens to him is punishment. What we as the society are totally lacking in is prevention.

 

[margarita25]

‘They showed his photo, and my stomach just dropped’: Neighbors recall synagogue massacre suspect as a loner

“Neighbors knew Robert Bowers as a truck driver who rarely hosted visitors but exchanged pleasantries as he came and went from his first-floor apartment in a complex in Baldwin, a suburb on the south side of Pittsburgh. His unremarkable facade made the role authorities say he played in the massacre that left 11 dead all the more chilling, they said.”

—
So he’s a loner (“ghost”)
(And a truck driver, that’s new to me)

(Would the other 2 in my small comparative analysis of 3 mass shooters also have been considered “loners”...iirc.. )

1. Planned Parenthood / RD:
Age 57
Independent Art Dealer
Loner: Y
Robert Dear, “gentle loner”: The New York Times reveals a load...

2. Vegas / SP:
Age 64
Accountant, real estate investor
Loner: Y
“ those familiar with Paddock described him as someone who did not speak much and kept a low profile.”
(Wiki)
Remembered as a loner in his hometown, Paddock did little to draw attention

Las Vegas gunman described as well-off gambler and a loner | Reuters

3. Tree of Life / RB:
Age 46
Truck Driver
Loner. Y
Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre Suspect Was ‘Pretty Much a Ghost’

Article from 2012:
Mass Shooters: Are They 'Loners' by Choice?

(O/T, article on Nikolas Cruz, note to subfile in school shooter category)
A depressed loner 'crazy about guns')

Question: Do serial shooters share this same trait of loneliness?
NOCO shooter (well tied to 1 killing) is absolutely baaat crazy.

Which reminds me of Holmes (Aurora Theater Shooter):

Gosh they all have this crazy look!! These guys are nuts!

And here is Robert Dear! (Planned Parenthood):

 

[Charlot123]

This is educational.

Could you please explain the difference? Thank you.

I am not Jewish, and not very religious in general, but this article should be enough

Relationships between Jewish religious movements - Wikipedia

And also, more interestintly, Israeli chief rabbi does not recognize the Pittsburg synagogue as such because the congregation is conservative, not orthodox. This emphacises the schism between the Orthodox (ultra-conservative) and conservative Jews.

Israel's chief rabbi refuses to call Pittsburgh massacre site a synagogue because it's non-Orthodox

"In the interview with Makor Rishon, a newspaper popular in the Israeli Modern Orthodox community, Rabbi David Lau said that “any murder of any Jew in any part of the world for being Jewish is unforgivable.” But rather than acknowledge that the crime had been carried out in a synagogue, he referred to the location as “a place with a profound Jewish flavor.”

 

[Charlot123]

Very well said. The only group that has all these "potentials" are Chinese in south east Asian. Over the centuries Chinese immigrant in Malaysia, Indonesia Burma and Thailand have gotten the same stereotypes as Jews in the west:

- All are wealthy, unethical in business, not truly loyal to their home countries, continuously conspiring to do any number of contradictory and usually impossible dastardly deeds....

You'd be surprised, but the first time I read something similar to this description (only in worse terms), it was about...Phoenicians. The text itself belonged to ancient Athenians. The Phoenicians traded with Athens, could be seen there, and generated the same level if dislike that much later befell on other ethnic groups, such as Jews or Armenians or Asians.

It makes me wonder if vendors in general generate much dislike because we always feel that we are getting the shorter end of the stick in any deal or trade. Human nature.

 

[margarita25]

Article from 2015:

The Warning Signs of a Mass Shooting - The Atlantic

“Meloy also points to research, much of it done by San Diego State University psychology professor Dr. Jean Twenge, that shows narcissism among young people has increased.”

(Very Interesting, I had just asked asked about narcissism earlier.)

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Ok, so my synopsis here is that we can clearly see grown men do this. So, if it’s increasing among your youth...

Argh.

We might see an increase like nobody’s seen, jmo.

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Stats from above article re: increase in prior years:

“Between 2000-06 and 2007-13, active public shootings have increased about 150 percent in the U.S., according to a 2014 FBI study.”

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So what are the expected stats and projections I shudder to ask?

The terrible numbers that grow with each mass shooting
Analysis | More than 50 years of U.S. mass shootings: The victims, sites, killers and weapons

ETA-The Tree of Life Shooting has already been added to the above site.

 

[margarita25]

“There have been more than 1,600 mass shootings since Sandy Hook”
America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 17 maps and charts

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2016 and 2017:
Active Shooter Incidents in the United States in 2016 and 2017 — FBI

2017 Data:
https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2018/info_flyers/fact_sheets/2018NCVRW_MassCasualty_508_QC.pdf

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There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list

“There have been nearly as many US mass shootings as days in 2018.“

(Omg )

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ETA:
Mass shootings in the U.S.: When, where they have occurred in 2018

“The number of mass shootings around the country in 2018 continues to climb.

According to data from the Gun Violence Archive, a total of 293 mass shooting incidents have occurred as of October 27.

Saturday's mass shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh, with 'multiple casualties' and multiple officers injured, marks the 294th mass shooting.

In 2017, the U.S. saw a total of 346 mass shootings.”

Mass Shootings
shootingtracker.com

 

[Charlot123]

‘They showed his photo, and my stomach just dropped’: Neighbors recall synagogue massacre suspect as a loner

“Neighbors knew Robert Bowers as a truck driver who rarely hosted visitors but exchanged pleasantries as he came and went from his first-floor apartment in a complex in Baldwin, a suburb on the south side of Pittsburgh. His unremarkable facade made the role authorities say he played in the massacre that left 11 dead all the more chilling, they said.”

—
So he’s a loner (“ghost”)
(And a truck driver, that’s new to me)

(Would the other 2 in my small comparative analysis of 3 mass shooters also have been considered “loners”...iirc.. )

1. Planned Parenthood / RD:
Age 57
Independent Art Dealer
Loner: Y
Robert Dear, “gentle loner”: The New York Times reveals a load...

2. Vegas / SP:
Age 64
Accountant, real estate investor
Loner: Y
“ those familiar with Paddock described him as someone who did not speak much and kept a low profile.”
(Wiki)
Remembered as a loner in his hometown, Paddock did little to draw attention

Las Vegas gunman described as well-off gambler and a loner | Reuters

3. Tree of Life / RB:
Age 46
Truck Driver
Loner. Y
Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre Suspect Was ‘Pretty Much a Ghost’

Article from 2012:
Mass Shooters: Are They 'Loners' by Choice?

(O/T, article on Nikolas Cruz, note to subfile in school shooter category)
A depressed loner 'crazy about guns')

Question: Do serial shooters share this same trait of loneliness?
NOCO shooter (well tied to 1 killing) is absolutely baaat crazy.

Which reminds me of Holmes (Aurora Theater Shooter):

Gosh they all have this crazy look!! These guys are nuts!

And here is Robert Dear! (Planned Parenthood):

Maybe these are the photos, but all three look hyperthyroid.

 

[margarita25]

Maybe these are the photos, but all three look hyperthyroid.

For real!!!! Now that you mention it...

Add the one I think @bluesneakers posted earlier and that would make 4!

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Are we onto to something!?!?
(Lol sort of kidding not really)

ETA:

Well, well, well, what do we have here:

The Relationship between Aggression and Serum Thyroid Hormone Level in Individuals Diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder

 

[margarita25]

I just had a horrific thought.

One of these days the mass shooter might get away (knock on wood).

From a profiling aspect I think it’s important to learn as much as possible as we can, if there is expected to be a continuance and increase of these types of incidents.

We are already starting to see this with serial shooters (having to trying to locate these nut jobs), moo.