PA - Amtrak train from Washington crashes in Philadelphia, May 2015

[bettybaby00]

"Philadelphia police interviewed the train’s engineer, who was required to undergo drug and alcohol testing after the crash, but they did not reveal what he said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...957-11e4-9ef4-1bb7ce3b3fb7_story.html?hpid=z1

I heard earlier (not sure if CNN or FOX) the engineer had only told investigators that "he didn't remember what happened" and then he lawyered up.

 

[CARIIS]

Brandon Bostian, the engineer driving the Amtrak train that derailed in Philadelphia Tuesday night, has no recollection of the crash itself and "no explanation" for what happened, his attorney told ABC News.

Bostian voluntarily turned over a blood sample and his cell phone and is cooperating with authorities. Bostian was "very distraught" to learn of the loss of life in the crash, the attorney said, adding Bostian only remembers driving the train to the crash area generally, then later getting tossed around, coming to, finding his bag and his cell phone, and dialing 911.

suffered a concussion and head wound that required 14 staples, as well as injuries to both of his legs in the crash,


, Bostian has worked at Amtrak for nearly nine years, the first half of which he spent as a passenger conductor before he became a passenger engineer in December 2010.


Bostian initially spoke with investigators Tuesday night. He was treated at a hospital and then released and transported to the Philadelphia Police Department. He later declined to provide a formal statement to police and requested a lawyer, which he now has, officials said.


.....his attorney said he was with police for at least five hours and would be available to answer additional questions.

"This person has gone through a very traumatic event and we want to give him the opportunity to convalesce for a day or so before we interview him," Sumwalt said.


Bostian's attorney said his client would be willing to speak to the NTSB.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/amtrak-eng...ndon-bostian-remember-crash/story?id=31023810

Are Linkedin pages legal here?

 

[Bravo]

A couple of points from this article: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...m_that_would_have_prevented_deadly_crash.html

1. The stretch of track before the 50mph speed limit curve had a speed limit of 80mph. So the 100+ mph was too fast for anywhere in that area.

2. "About a dozen" passengers were still missing, so the death toll is expected to rise.

The most prominent missing passenger (in terms of media coverage, that is), the female CEO with the last name of (I think) Jacobs, is reportedly a frequent traveler on the route. This makes it likely she gets some free upgrades, which means she might well have been in the doomed first business-class car.

She has been identified
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan-native-missing-after-amtrak-derailment/32999634

 

[Bravo]

Night all. Be safe. I'm sure we will learn much more in the days to come.

 

[corundogs]

Fascinating interview MSNBC "The Last Word" Apparently the train has a overspped warning system that can be turned off. A buzer and alight goes off. He says a lot of engineers do this if they are trying to make up time. He said that it is not PCS, but will apply brakes if train is speeding. Not online yet tho

Robert Pottroff

He also stated that the speed limit ahead of the curve was 120 mph. It was also reported on THe Last Word - that the engineer did talk with police, gave a blood sample, and they have his cell phone. They have search warrent for phone, but attorney said he gave it willingly.

Hi Bravo!

He also said he will talk some more.......so again, the media!We shall see how it plays out and who got it wrong- !!

The Last Word tongihts broadcast! MSNBC

I am wondering if this is being reported wrong. I have seen 70 and 80MPH. Based on the maps, there is another curve at most, 2 miles before this. And then a stretch of say, 5 miles of straight, and then close to the station some major turns - not just curves.

I just don't see the speed limit being that high, in that section. Plus, is it realistic that the speed limit is 120 and then slow down to 50 in the space of a mile or two? If my math is correct (and it may not be) that is 1 minute to slow down 70 miles MPH.

I think that reporter is wrong. LOL!!

 

[corundogs]

A couple of points from this article: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...m_that_would_have_prevented_deadly_crash.html

1. The stretch of track before the 50mph speed limit curve had a speed limit of 80mph. So the 100+ mph was too fast for anywhere in that area.

2. "About a dozen" passengers were still missing, so the death toll is expected to rise.

The most prominent missing passenger (in terms of media coverage, that is), the female CEO with the last name of (I think) Jacobs, is reportedly a frequent traveler on the route. This makes it likely she gets some free upgrades, which means she might well have been in the doomed first business-class car.

WOW!!!!!! That is pretty intense information! CNN banner now states "At least 7 people dead" It is really hard to fathom how anyone in that first car survived, to be honest!

 

[CARIIS]

I am pretty confident most of us are here casue news is just junk. THey do this on all stories, they get it totally wrong. Its like its not even close any longer. He did talk with police or he did not. Left or right. Up or down.

It now seems as if all day long saying he was uncooperative might be wrong. He was seriuosly injured with a concucsiion - (media - concussions impact memory!) Per ABC he was with them for hours - I am confident he wanted to rest - he had just been in a 106 mph wreck - I mean!

Its like did he voluntarily surrunder his phone, or did he not? Not complicated entitities like the the thoery of air surrounding the nucleus of cellular membrane as it relates to orgin of green beans > (no idea it just came to me!)

A blood sample was drawn or a blood sample was not drawn.

These are just facts - yes or no - how do they get it so messed up all the time??

Its infuriating

 

[corundogs]

I am pretty confident most of us are here casue news is just junk. THey do this on all stories, they get it totally wrong. Its like its not even close any longer. He did talk with police or he did not. Left or right. Up or down.

It now seems as if all day long saying he was uncooperative might be wrong. He was seriuosly injured with a concucsiion - (media - concussions impact memory!) Per ABC he was with them for hours - I am confident he wanted to rest - he had just been in a 106 mph wreck - I mean!

Its like did he voluntarily surrunder his phone, or did he not? Not complicated entitities like the the thoery of air surrounding the nucleus of cellular membrane as it relates to orgin of green beans > (no idea it just came to me!)

A blood sample was drawn or a blood sample was not drawn.

These are just facts - yes or no - how do they get it so messed up all the time??

Its infuriating

That is so true. Hard to accept any MSM as trustworthy. It's all we have at the beginning of major events. But I will never, ever again in my life...as long as I can be active on the internet...accept anything reported without verifying at a site like this or other trusted sites. With independent, local, intelligent investigators!

Though after reading back on the James Holmes threads here on WS, and with things like Sandy Hook, more often than not the VERY FIRST reports are the most accurate. As strange as that sounds. At least that has been what I have seen. It is after say, an hour or so after something with mass reporting, that things start to get convoluted. I don't know what causes that though.

 

[branwynbreeze]

Fascinating interview MSNBC "The Last Word" Apparently the train has a overspped warning system that can be turned off. A buzer and alight goes off. He says a lot of engineers do this if they are trying to make up time. He said that it is not PCS, but will apply brakes if train is speeding. Not online yet tho

Robert Pottroff

He also stated that the speed limit ahead of the curve was 120 mph. It was also reported on THe Last Word - that the engineer did talk with police, gave a blood sample, and they have his cell phone. They have search warrent for phone, but attorney said he gave it willingly.

Hi Bravo!

He also said he will talk some more.......so again, the media!We shall see how it plays out and who got it wrong- !!

The Last Word tongihts broadcast! MSNBC

He did have a head injury that required staples. I've heard and have experienced, that when knocked out you may not remember moments just prior to accident.

 

[Hatfield]

I am wondering if this is being reported wrong. I have seen 70 and 80MPH. Based on the maps, there is another curve at most, 2 miles before this. And then a stretch of say, 5 miles of straight, and then close to the station some major turns - not just curves.

I just don't see the speed limit being that high, in that section. Plus, is it realistic that the speed limit is 120 and then slow down to 50 in the space of a mile or two? If my math is correct (and it may not be) that is 1 minute to slow down 70 miles MPH.

I think that reporter is wrong. LOL!!

Many years ago I have actually taken this same Amtrak train from Philly to NYC so I am familiar with this train and route. It has been a long time though.

I do recall that when leaving the Philly station, the train starts out slow and picks up speed as it goes. I even remember that there are bends in the track shortly after leaving the Philly station and then it straightens out for a long straight shot and doesnt slow down much until you get to New Jersey area first before NYC. I think there is even a stop in NJ before NYC. I think it is Trenton if I remember the NJ stop.

Anyway, the main point is that as you leave Philly:
- the train always goes slower at first
- the train takes a left type bend before it finally gets to the point where it straightens out and then goes much faster

So here is what I think may have happend. This is JMO and just a guess as to what happened.

I think one of these 4 things is likely what happened. I listed them in the order of most likely to least likely IMO.

1-The operator thought he cleared the bends and thought he was already on the straight part and set the speed for the maximum cruising speed because he thought he was already on the straight part.

2-The operator was relatively new to this route and was not too familiar with having to go slow at first to get through the early bends to the left.

3-The operator fell asleep.

4-The operator was not paying attention and was distracted by something (i.e, phone, etc.) he was doing and the train picked up much more speed than he realized.

 

[FranP]

It's unlikely that the driver fell asleep - as I understand it from my husband (who drives trains in the UK), there is a 'deadman's switch'. Effectively, you have to stand on a pedal the whole time the train is moving. If you don't, the train will automatically apply the brakes to slow and stop the train.

I'd say it would be more likely that he 'forgot' the layout of the tracks - over here, I know that drivers are expected to know and remember a number of routes; obviously I don't know if that's the same for the Amtrak drivers, or if they always drive the same routes.

 

[bettybaby00]

I am pretty confident most of us are here casue news is just junk. THey do this on all stories, they get it totally wrong. Its like its not even close any longer. He did talk with police or he did not. Left or right. Up or down.

It now seems as if all day long saying he was uncooperative might be wrong. He was seriuosly injured with a concucsiion - (media - concussions impact memory!) Per ABC he was with them for hours - I am confident he wanted to rest - he had just been in a 106 mph wreck - I mean!

Its like did he voluntarily surrunder his phone, or did he not? Not complicated entitities like the the thoery of air surrounding the nucleus of cellular membrane as it relates to orgin of green beans > (no idea it just came to me!)

A blood sample was drawn or a blood sample was not drawn.

These are just facts - yes or no - how do they get it so messed up all the time??

Its infuriating

lol, yet so true. What's even more confounding in this situation is the number of press conferences held, and how forthcoming officials have been!

But as is true in most cases the devil is in the details, and when they don't have 'em, there's never a shortage of highly paid talking heads willing to speculate!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Ex-Detroiter killed in train crash a passionate booster

Candice Williams, The Detroit News 1:03 a.m. EDT May 14, 2015

Rachel Jacobs sent a text message to her husband Tuesday night telling him she was boarding a train from her Philadelphia office to their home in New York City.

The former Metro Detroiter never made it. Less than an hour later, Jacobs, leader of an Internet startup and fervid Detroit booster, was among seven people killed when the Amtrak train derailed in Philadelphia. Her family confirmed the death in a statement Wednesday...
..
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...nator-daughter-missing-amtrak-crash/27246359/

 

[JerseyGirl]

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/brandon-bostian/4/4b9/bb3

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Amtrak Engineer Doesn't Remember Train Crash, Lawyer Says

The engineer who was at the controls when an Amtrak train derailed in Philadelphia on Tuesday, killing seven people, does not remember what happened when the speeding train slammed into a curve and jumped off the tracks, his attorney said in an interview Wednesday.

"He remembers driving the train, he remembers going to that area generally, has absolutely no recollection of the incident or anything unusual," attorney Robert Goggin, who said he represents Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostian, 32, of Forest Hills, Queens, told ABC's "Nightline."

"The next thing he recalls is being thrown around, coming to, finding his bag, getting his cell phone and dialing 911," Goggin told the news program. Goggin said Bostian was injured in the crash and had 14 staples placed in his head and suffered a knee injury. "What he looked was exhausted," Goggin told ABC...

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/am...esnt-remember-train-crash-lawyer-says-n358661

 

[Inthedetails]

It's unlikely that the driver fell asleep - as I understand it from my husband (who drives trains in the UK), there is a 'deadman's switch'. Effectively, you have to stand on a pedal the whole time the train is moving. If you don't, the train will automatically apply the brakes to slow and stop the train.

I'd say it would be more likely that he 'forgot' the layout of the tracks - over here, I know that drivers are expected to know and remember a number of routes; obviously I don't know if that's the same for the Amtrak drivers, or if they always drive the same routes.

I wish we could rely on a "deadman's switch." The cause of the deadly derailment in the Bronx was due to the driver zoning out and going over the speed limit on a sharp turn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Spuyten_Duyvil_derailment

My hunch is that the driver really did go into a daze (or was on his cellphone) and thought he passed the curve and was on the straightaway.

 

[Inthedetails]

Many years ago I have actually taken this same Amtrak train from Philly to NYC so I am familiar with this train and route. It has been a long time though.

I do recall that when leaving the Philly station, the train starts out slow and picks up speed as it goes. I even remember that there are bends in the track shortly after leaving the Philly station and then it straightens out for a long straight shot and doesnt slow down much until you get to New Jersey area first before NYC. I think there is even a stop in NJ before NYC. I think it is Trenton if I remember the NJ stop.

Anyway, the main point is that as you leave Philly:
- the train always goes slower at first
- the train takes a left type bend before it finally gets to the point where it straightens out and then goes much faster

So here is what I think may have happend. This is JMO and just a guess as to what happened.

I think one of these 4 things is likely what happened. I listed them in the order of most likely to least likely IMO.

1-The operator thought he cleared the bends and thought he was already on the straight part and set the speed for the maximum cruising speed because he thought he was already on the straight part.

2-The operator was relatively new to this route and was not too familiar with having to go slow at first to get through the early bends to the left.

3-The operator fell asleep.

4-The operator was not paying attention and was distracted by something (i.e, phone, etc.) he was doing and the train picked up much more speed than he realized.

My hunch is #1 or a combo of #1 and #4.

I also think the investigation will be thorough and we will eventually know exactly what happened. Hope so, anyway.

 

[Inthedetails]

"About 12 passengers remain missing as of early Thursday morning, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/derailed-amtrak-train-traveling-100-mph-article-1.2220766

 

[Hatfield]

My hunch is #1 or a combo of #1 and #4.

I also think the investigation will be thorough and we will eventually know exactly what happened. Hope so, anyway.

I agree there will be a thorough investigation and I hope we eventually find out exactly what happened.

One of the concerns I have is the operator is saying he doesnt remember. Wonder if that leans to #1 or #3 him zoning out or falling asleep which could be a reason he doesnt remember.
He probably would never admit it if that happened so not sure how they would ever determine that.
I bet there are ways around the dead-mans switch if they even have one here in US commuter trains. Like putting a weight on it or resting a body part on it. I havent heard of that for commuter trains here.

Its interesting lately that with plane crashes there was discussion of having video in the cockpit and even with LE shootings there was discussion of body cameras being on LE officers.
Wonder if we need to add Train operators now. Like require Video in Train Operator booth.
Its hard to get agencies to require videos but it sure would help to solve these types of incidents.

 

[bettybaby00]

I agree there will be a thorough investigation and I hope we eventually find out exactly what happened.

One of the concerns I have is the operator is saying he doesnt remember. Wonder if that leans to #1 or #3 him zoning out or falling asleep which could be a reason he doesnt remember.
He probably would never admit it if that happened so not sure how they would ever determine that.
I bet there are ways around the dead-mans switch if they even have one here in US commuter trains. Like putting a weight on it or resting a body part on it. I havent heard of that for commuter trains here.

Its interesting lately that with plane crashes there was discussion of having video in the cockpit and even with LE shootings there was discussion of body cameras being on LE officers.
Wonder if we need to add Train operators now. Like require Video in Train Operator booth.
Its hard to get agencies to require videos but it sure would help to solve these types of incidents.

I'm not sure there is a "dead man's switch" on these types of trains. I could swear I heard one official discussing the train's "auto pilot" type function. I would think that these two things do not go together???

That's my take on it, but of course I could be wrong. I tried googling the info but wasn't getting any relevent info.

As for the camera question....dang, I'm really starting to feel like every aspect of our lives will soon be subject to survllience. Not sure I agree with that. It's certainly one of the biggest dilemmas we currently face.