PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

[Startover]

According to the Doe Network on this case in september 1957 police had talked to a man loitering beside the highway [in the vicinty] of where John Doe bones was found; the man claimed to be hithhiking from Ky to Canada...{If that was Mr Bones it could explain why he had no car or moterbike with him]
I wonder it there was never was an isope test on his bones to deterime where he came from-Europe or USA?
If he did decied to hitchhike to Canada and live off the land why did he not have some obvious equipment to live off the land:
Tent
Bedroll
matches/fire starter kit
Water purification tablets
a hunting and skinning knife...to cut up and cook the wild game
compass
canteen
and a hunting license
The land he was found on.did they ever check with the owners to see if they found the remains of hunted dead animials or even if any of his prize animials such as cow or horse had also been shot?
I dont think he was AWOL...but a so called "Free Spirits" ---reminds me of case of a affuilant young man who turned his back on civiliazation and live in the wilderness but was found dead..he died of a combination malnutrition and exposure....

 

[Startover]

According to the Doe Network on this case in september 1957 police had talked to a man loitering beside the highway [in the vicinty] of where John Doe bones was found; the man claimed to be hithhiking from Ky to Canada...{If that was Mr Bones it could explain why he had no car or moterbike with him]
I wonder it there was never was an isope test on his bones to deterime where he came from-Europe or USA?
If he did decied to hitchhike to Canada and live off the land why did he not have some obvious equipment to live off the land:
Tent
Bedroll
a combination hand axe/hammer for chopping wood or pounding in tent stakes
matches/fire starter kit
Water purification tablets
a hunting and skinning knife...to cut up and cook the wild game
compass
canteen
and a hunting license
The land he was found on.did they ever check with the owners to see if they found the remains of hunted dead animials or even if any of his prize animials such as cow or horse had also been shot?
I dont think he was AWOL...but a so called "Free Spirits" ---reminds me of case of a affuilant young man who turned his back on civiliazation and live in the wilderness but was found dead..he died of a combination malnutrition and exposure....


How is this for a theroy?
Mt John Bones could have come from Illinois; he bought the rifle in Indiana;
he made his way to Kenticky--prehps he was college student there...for soem reason he was hitchike/live off the land and go to Canada. He made his way to Penn Since he was found near a parkway that probably where he been dropped off. He was questioned by the Police in September 1957. He then made his way to where he was found. I dont think he intended to commit suicide--the camping equipment tells that he intended to live off the land,,,somehow something went wrong and he was killed....prehaps it was an accident with the rifle..[.I never heard of a hunter hunting with a rifle in a box...a more sensible way would to have been carrying the rifle over the shoulder on a sling or in a leather rifle carrying case....] a year later he was found....

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

According to the Doe Network on this case in september 1957 police had talked to a man loitering beside the highway [in the vicinty] of where John Doe bones was found; the man claimed to be hithhiking from Ky to Canada...{If that was Mr Bones it could explain why he had no car or moterbike with him]
I wonder it there was never was an isope test on his bones to deterime where he came from-Europe or USA?
If he did decied to hitchhike to Canada and live off the land why did he not have some obvious equipment to live off the land:
Tent
Bedroll
matches/fire starter kit
Water purification tablets
a hunting and skinning knife...to cut up and cook the wild game
compass
canteen
and a hunting license
The land he was found on.did they ever check with the owners to see if they found the remains of hunted dead animials or even if any of his prize animials such as cow or horse had also been shot?
I dont think he was AWOL...but a so called "Free Spirits" ---reminds me of case of a affuilant young man who turned his back on civiliazation and live in the wilderness but was found dead..he died of a combination malnutrition and exposure....

The lack of certain essential camping supplies is puzzling for sure. Some have used this to suggest he was actually murdered by a companion who presumably carried those absent provisions with them. I wonder if it’s also possible that Mr. Bones did travel with someone and either committed suicide or shot himself accidentally. His friend, fearing he’d be charged with murder if he went to the authorities, decided to abandon the area in a panic and spend the rest of his life trying to forget what had happened. That would explain the absence of essential gear as well as the police’s belief the gunshot was self-inflicted. It would also explain why the rifle, money, and other items left at the scene weren’t stolen. This hypothetical individual wouldn’t have any desire to commit robbery, and leaving those items behind would serve to fuel the narrative of a solo hunting accident gone wrong. Furthermore, it would also explain why Mr.Bones had no ID. This friend might have disposed of it to prevent identification of the body, which in turn might have implicated him if he and Mr. Bones knew each other well. Just a theory.

 

[CCJD]

Attached gives an idea of Mr Bones' property.

11 Oct 1958, Page 1 - The Daily News at Newspapers.com

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Still no word from the case officer about the rifle or the books. I think I’ll try calling them again this weekend. I really hope that we’ll get some kind of lead from this. I’d hate to hit another dead end.

 

[ClaireNC]

DBM

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

DBM

Not sure what this means, Claire.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Sorry for all the posts today. I'm not trying to spam. I was looking at the photos provided by NamUs, which can be found here: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs), and I noticed something on the rifle case which I'm not sure anybody here has mentioned. It looks like there's some writing etched on the bottom right of the handle. It's in a white cursive script, and I can't quite make the whole thing out because of the photo quality and the dirt covering the case, but I think it says something like "060 Straight Shooter 46". I did a Google search for vintage Straight Shooter rifle cases, and came across these pages:

https://offerup.com/item/detail/670928869.
Vintage Straight Shooter Brown Vinyl Pleather Rifle Case 6060– 50 inch FREE SHIP | eBay

I'll also provide examples of the images themselves in case the web pages get taken down once the items have sold. As you can see, the look of the cases and the logo script are very similar to what Mr. Bones had. Unfortunately, I'm not having much luck nailing down a specific time period during which these cases were sold, nor am I certain as to where in the country they could be purchased. Hopefully someone can be of assistance.

On another note, I did a missing person search on NameUs to see if there was a potential individual we may have overlooked. I came up with a Charles Wayne Jones out of California. There's very little information about him, but what's there seems to make a potential match. I'll try to contact the case officer in charge tomorrow to see if there are additional details that may strengthen the connection or rule him out.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[ClaireNC]

Not sure what this means, Claire.

DBM = Deleted by me. I posted something and changed my mind, so I deleted the post.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

DBM = Deleted by me. I posted something and changed my mind, so I deleted the post.

My apologies. I have trouble with some internet lingo

 

[Ann99]

I just stumbled across the thread and I am skimming it to try to catch up. I will read more thoroughly later today to see if any of this has been addressed.
Just wanted to say I grew up about 30 miles west of this area and am familiar with the terrain and customs. It is a beautiful mountainous, forested, remote area, known for mineral springs, hunting ( bears in large numbers and yes, bigfoot sitings on occasion), fishing and all possible outdoor activities.
It would have been not startling or not unusual to see a person walking, hiking, with a rifle.
High School Students back in the '60 would carry a rifle to school for hunting on the way home, or having come from early morning hunting... it was not alarming at all. Many schools had Rifle Clubs...

Bedford Airport is very near (west ) of western part of Chalybeate Rd.
Could he have come in by airplane to visit the area?

Can anyone say if the exact location ( coordinates) of the remains is known?
I want to look on google earth to find the cut out area.

Here is something that ties Indiana, Kentucky and Pennsylvania

Chalybeate springs have been noted for their health-giving properties.
Chalybeate springs were found across Europe and in the United States;
Saratoga Springs in New York...
Chalybeate Springs in Indiana
Kentucky - resorts at Chalybeate Springs in Russell and Union Counties.
There is a village in Edmonson County called “Chalybeate Springs,”

Simplified, my first impression is this was a well heeled young man, tourist or researcher, hiking and traveling thru the beautiful countryside.
Maybe an interest in the Mineral Springs.

If this is way off base or repetitious I do apologize. I just felt compelled to add my memories and impressions of the Bedford Pa. area.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I just stumbled across the thread and I am skimming it to try to catch up. I will read more thoroughly later today to see if any of this has been addressed.
Just wanted to say I grew up about 30 miles west of this area and am familiar with the terrain and customs. It is a beautiful mountainous, forested, remote area, known for mineral springs, hunting ( bears in large numbers and yes, bigfoot sitings on occasion), fishing and all possible outdoor activities.
It would have been not startling or not unusual to see a person walking, hiking, with a rifle.
High School Students back in the '60 would carry a rifle to school for hunting on the way home, or having come from early morning hunting... it was not alarming at all. Many schools had Rifle Clubs...

Bedford Airport is very near (west ) of western part of Chalybeate Rd.
Could he have come in by airplane to visit the area?

Can anyone say if the exact location ( coordinates) of the remains is known?
I want to look on google earth to find the cut out area.

Here is something that ties Indiana, Kentucky and Pennsylvania

Chalybeate springs have been noted for their health-giving properties.
Chalybeate springs were found across Europe and in the United States;
Saratoga Springs in New York...
Chalybeate Springs in Indiana
Kentucky - resorts at Chalybeate Springs in Russell and Union Counties.
There is a village in Edmonson County called “Chalybeate Springs,”

Simplified, my first impression is this was a well heeled young man, tourist or researcher, hiking and traveling thru the beautiful countryside.
Maybe an interest in the Mineral Springs.

If this is way off base or repetitious I do apologize. I just felt compelled to add my memories and impressions of the Bedford Pa. area.

Nice to meet you Ann. I’m new to this forum, but this case is so fascinating to me as well, so I’m trying to keep this thread alive with possible leads. Sounds like you have a lot of helpful insight to share, and I can’t wait to hear more as you familiarize yourself with the case.

You mention Bedford Airport being near where the body was found. This raises two questions: one, was the airport in existence at the time Mr. Bones arrived in the state, and if so, would the airport have any way of bringing up his details if a request to search through their records was made? I did some Googling, and it looks like the airport wasn’t built in 1994, although maybe there was an older airport in the area prior. I also know airport regulations and security were quite lax back in the 50s, so I’m a bit nervous that even if Mr. Bones went through there as part of his travels, there might not be any record of this.

These are the coordinates provided by NamUs
40 02 14 -78 29 37
I can’t say where they originated or how accurate they are.

Judging by his books, his inappropriate clothing for the outdoors, and the absence of crucial camping equipment, I think you might be right that Mr. Bones was some kind of student, tourist, or otherwise not someone used to being out in the wilderness, or at least not well prepared to do so.

Despite what I said about Bedford Airport, you’ve now got me wondering if anybody here considered the possibility that he flew across the country. I could be wrong, but I don’t have any reason to believe that investigators at the time or since checked with any airports to see if a man matching his description booked a flight. Airports in Chicago and New York might be of interest, as he seemed to have strong connections with both cities.

 

[Ann99]

TY TrustedTracker

Regarding Bedford Airport. I find prior years show there were 3 barely identifiable air strips in this same general location.
As you point out, the current airport was dedicated in 1994.
Most earlier 'airports' started out a just a strip on the top or side of the mountain.* There were no records kept of coming and going passengers.
As far as other transportation I imagine railroad travel was a possibility.
My only point is that this unknown man could have travelled from a variety of distant locations to do some kind of research in this area, possibly in relation to the attraction of the Mineral Springs or Bedford in general has a great deal of Historical significance, if this man was a history buff or researcher.**

* Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: South-Central Pennsyvania
To find Bedford, you must scroll, scroll and scroll down to the far end of this info. Grainy photos give an idea of the remoteness.

Thanks you for the coordinates. The location is close but not as close to the Pennsylvania State Game Lands (to the east) as I had assumed.

** General info.
Bedford, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

TY TrustedTracker

Regarding Bedford Airport. I find prior years show there were 3 barely identifiable air strips in this same general location.
As you point out, the current airport was dedicated in 1994.
Most earlier 'airports' started out a just a strip on the top or side of the mountain.* There were no records kept of coming and going passengers.
As far as other transportation I imagine railroad travel was a possibility.
My only point is that this unknown man could have travelled from a variety of distant locations to do some kind of research in this area, possibly in relation to the attraction of the Mineral Springs or Bedford in general has a great deal of Historical significance, if this man was a history buff or researcher.**

* Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: South-Central Pennsyvania
To find Bedford, you must scroll, scroll and scroll down to the far end of this info. Grainy photos give an idea of the remoteness.

Thanks you for the coordinates. The location is close but not as close to the Pennsylvania State Game Lands (to the east) as I had assumed.

** General info.
Bedford, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia

I think you bring up some interesting points regarding the history of Bedford and the healing springs. I noticed in that Wikipedia article you sent me that there are a couple of historic hotels in the area that were frequently visited by the wealthy. I wonder if our friend may have chosen to stay at one of these hotels or any other in the area. We’ve already established he likely had money, and if he were a history buff or someone curious about Bedford, he might have seen those hotels as appropriate places to visit.

 

[madamx]

RBBM

IMO, the presence of a "motorcycle jacket" doesn't necessarily equate to having a motorcycle. Maybe he just liked it. Remember the movie "Grease"? The guys had "motorcycle jackets" (so did ONJ at the end). They were grease monkeys - not bikers.

He was skeletal when found. Any food he may have had (fresh or tinned) may have been carted off by birds and/or wildlife long before he was found.

3 boxes of ammo were found

He had either $23 or $38 on him depending on source. Article from 1958 says $23. Article from 2004 says $38. (Pertinent parts of articles attached)

31 Dec 1969, - at Newspapers.com

31 Dec 1969, - at Newspapers.com
(ignore dates on links - correct dates are noted on attached pic description)

I have never seen that he had a key. Active 195 Ave A
I know NYC has an Ave A. It has one in Brooklyn also but there is no 195.
I wonder if Active was the name of the Hardware store the key was made in.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I have never seen that he had a key. Active 195 Ave A
I know NYC has an Ave A. It has one in Brooklyn also but there is no 195.
I wonder if Active was the name of the Hardware store the key was made in.

Here is an excerpt from Richard’s interview with the case officer. Specially, it is the information he obtained about the key found with Mr. Bones.

“Questions regarding The Brass Key (stamped "Active 195 Ave A"):
Q - Is this a door key?, a padlock key?, a mailbox key?
Q - Were thare any other markings on the key? Was it on a ring or chain?
Q - What make or pattern is it? (eg: a Cole, Dexter, Chicago, Schlage, Master, Quikset, etc.?)
Q - Is it an origional key, or a copy made on another company's blank?
Q - Is this a continuous stamping, that is all related, or is it stamped in several places, perhaps with different size numerals/letters?
Q - "Active" may be the name of the locksmith who made the key, or could be the name of a company that it was made for.
Q - "195" could be an address, and if so, is probably the address of the key maker. It could simply be a key code.
Q - What cities have an "Avenue A"? (Manhatten, NY - Bayone, NJ - Chicago east side - probably more)

Answers:
A - The key is a duplicate copied onto an Unger blank, cut by Active Locksmith, 195 Avenue A, New York City, NY

A - Keys of this type are used on some Segal 5-pin tumbler cylinder door locks, primarily mortised locks, night latches and deadbolt locks

A - No indications of heavy use or wear from key ring“

Personally, the more I’ve looked into this forum and this case, the more convinced I am that Charles Conner is our guy. At first I felt Ralph Forsythe wouldn’t have enough time to dress the body in new clothes, gather up the books, camping gear, and rifle (making sure none of these items could be linked to him, at least directly) drive it all from Lima to Mr. Bones’s resting place (presumably he didn’t just drive straight to it. He likely went all around the area looking for a suitable spot to dump everything), park the car in a secluded location so nobody saw it, carry a 6’2 220 pound man’s corpse into the woods, dump it, bring in all the camping gear and other items in order to stage the scene as a suicide or accident, dispose of Charles’s ID and other identifying materials, clean the car of blood, and drive the car back to Lima (From the sources I read, it appears he was arrested at his house) all within a 24 hour time frame (that’s about how long it took LE to apprehend him).

This all seems like a lot of work, and generally I try to focus on the simplest explanation of how a case likely transpired, but if Forsythe worked nonstop during those 24 hours to accomplish all this, especially if he had help from his wife or somebody else, it’s certainly possible. The one thing I can’t understand is why he would return to his house (the scene of the crime) after disposing of the body. Remember, he shot Charles in front of three witnesses. It was almost certain the police would have begun investigating soon after the crime was committed. Even if those three men were sketchy guys who weren’t exactly buddy buddy with the cops, could Forsythe really count on none of them talking? It turns out he couldn’t, because they all eventually came forward. Why would he go through all this trouble to conceal Conner’s body and obscure its identity only to do something as foolish as return to the house when he should have known the police would have likely been there? Granted I could be wrong about him being arrested at his home. All I could find was an article which said he was arrested after authorities staked out his house, so I think that’s what happened based on what that phrasing implies. The mystery of ‘Mr. Bones’ - The Lima News

 

[Richard]

Sorry for all the posts today. I'm not trying to spam. I was looking at the photos provided by NamUs, which can be found here: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs), and I noticed something on the rifle case which I'm not sure anybody here has mentioned. It looks like there's some writing etched on the bottom right of the handle. It's in a white cursive script, and I can't quite make the whole thing out because of the photo quality and the dirt covering the case, but I think it says something like "060 Straight Shooter 46". I did a Google search for vintage Straight Shooter rifle cases, and came across these pages:

https://offerup.com/item/detail/670928869.
Vintage Straight Shooter Brown Vinyl Pleather Rifle Case 6060– 50 inch FREE SHIP | eBay

I'll also provide examples of the images themselves...

Thanks for the link and images. The rifle case is one which would have been fairly new in 1958. The first number is the Model or stock number, "Straight Shooter" would be the brand name of the maker or retailer, and 46 (inches) was the length of the case (they are made in different lengths to accommodate the length of the rifle or shotgun). This particular case was made for a rifle which did not have a telescopic sight mounted on it.

The knapsack is very definitely a military issue type item, but I cannot determine exactly what country or model from the photo. This is evident by the many web straps and steel buckles and Olive Drab Canvas construction. They were available for very little money at any Army Surplus store back then. It was not of the type that we see backpackers carrying today.

The Mess Kit appears to be something newly made and unused. It looks to be of the Boy Scout type, rather than military issue, although its case might be Military surplus. There is no fire smoke or food staining or scratches on the aluminum. This would certainly not be the case if he had done any camping with that equipment.

As I recall, he did have a very large canteen with him, although this is not seen in the photos. As I recall (see earlier posts) the size would have been rather awkward to hike around with, and would have been more appropriately carried on a motorcycle. A water supply carried in a car would more likely have been carried in a large thermos jug that could sit upright in the trunk or on the floor, rather than have to be suspended by a strap.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Thanks for the link and images. The rifle case is one which would have been fairly new in 1958. The first number is the Model or stock number, "Straight Shooter" would be the brand name of the maker or retailer, and 46 (inches) was the length of the case (they are made in different lengths to accommodate the length of the rifle or shotgun. This particular case was made for a rifle which had not telescopic sight mounted on it.

The knapsack is very definitely a military issue type item, but I cannot determine exactly what country or model from the photo. This is evident by the many web straps and steel buckles. They were available for very little money at any Army Surplus store back then. It was not of the type that we see backpackers carrying today.

The Mess Kit appears to be something newly made and unused. It looks to be of the Boy Scout type, rather than military issue. There is no fire or food staining or scratches on the aluminum. This would certainly not be the case if he had done any camping with that equipment.

As I recall, he did have a very large canteen with him, although this is not seen in the photos.

Thanks for the information Richard. Just curious though, how do you know all this stuff about the rifle case, like the fact it would have been new and so forth? Do you have an idea of when exactly it would have been manufactured? Did this manufacturer only distribute its products in select parts of the country or in pretty much all of America?

 

[Richard]

Thanks for the information Richard. Just curious though, how do you know all this stuff about the rifle case, like the fact it would have been new and so forth? Do you have an idea of when exactly it would have been manufactured? Did this manufacturer only distribute its products in select parts of the country or in pretty much all of America?

The style and construction of the rifle case is consistent with other cases made in that time frame. Vinal was not used much until the 1950's. The length of cases as marked back then is still marked on cases made today by all case companies.

I am not familiar with the "Straight Shooter" brand name, however one might find it or similar cases for sale in old Gun Digest or Shooter Bible annual catalogs, or in old Sears or Wards catalogs of the era.

Some retail catalog companies like Herter's would put their own name on everything they sold - usually calling it "Herter's Model Perfect ____".

Often, back then, large retailers like Sears, Wards, Western Auto, and others would contract with a manufacturer for an item and have their own "trade name" or brand name placed on it. For instance Sears would have sporting goods branded "J.C. Higgins" or "Ted Williams". Wards branded their goods "Westernfield". And Western Auto had a store brand of "Revelation".

It is possible that "Straight Shooter" was the actual name of the company that made the rifle case, or also possible that it was a trade name for one of the many sporting goods retailers of the era.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

The style and construction of the rifle case is consistent with other cases made in that time frame. Vinal was not used much until the 1950's. The length of cases as marked back then is still marked on cases made today by all case companies.

I am not familiar with the "Straight Shooter" brand name, however one might find it or similar cases for sale in old Gun Digest or Shooter Bible annual catalogs, or in old Sears or Wards catalogs of the era.

Some retail catalog companies like Herter's would put their own name on everything they sold - usually calling it "Herter's Model Perfect ____".

Often, back then, large retailers like Sears, Wards, Western Auto, and others would contract with a manufacturer for an item and have their own "trade name" or brand name placed on it. For instance Sears would have sporting goods branded "J.C. Higgins" or "Ted Williams". Wards branded their goods "Westernfield". And Western Auto had a store brand of "Revelation".

It is possible that "Straight Shooter" was the actual name of the company that made the rifle case, or also possible that it was a trade name for one of the many sporting goods retailers of the era.

I hadn’t thought about consulting sporting goods catalogs. That’s an excellent idea. I’m really hoping this was an unusual case that wasn’t made in large numbers. If it was only sold in specific regions of the US or other countries, we could get a better idea of where Mr. Bones came from. I’ll definitely have to look into this more.