PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[littlehorn]

I just started reading about this case so it's going to take awhile to get through all the posts and articles. Littlehorn, I sure wish you hadn't taken down your site because I'm sure that would've been very helpful in getting a handle on this case.

Was Erdley ever considered a POI in this case? I'm sitting here thinking about a student rivalry, perhaps unbeknownst to Betsy, someone who may have wanted to do away with their perceived competition. Erdley wasn't at her desk when confronted by the two men. She was confronted near the staircase where the spot of blood was found.

It bothers me that she couldn't say why she was going through Betsy's purse at the hospital.

So far, I haven't seen anything to indicate that Erdley was truly screaming out for help for Betsy. Was she? Were her cries simply ignored? I find that hard to believe. Seems like too long of a delay between when Betsy was stabbed and when someone finally summoned an ambulance.

Couple of things. Thanks for the kind words, and yes, I sometimes wish I had left the site up, but I was going through a divorce and etc., and the extra money that it cost vs. what it was bringing in information wise, just wasn't really worth it anymore.

The attention this case gets on the web is due, in no small part, to my own efforts. When I started researching the case in January of 2008, there were two articles about Betsy -- both by Sascha Skucek -- on the web, and a mention of her on Wikipedia. No lie. Everything else about the case that has come out, attention-wise, has come from constant and tireless efforts on my part and Sascha's part to keep forcing the issue.

With regards to Erdley -- AFAIK she wasn't a person of interest for several reasons. One, she was a classmate of Betsy's, and all of her classmates were interviewed extensively and ruled out one by one. Two, she was not tall enough to have been the person who drove the knife into Betsy at the angle at which she did. She was also likely not strong enough to have delivered the blow, and would have had no time to get rid of the murder weapon if she had -- she was found with Betsy's body in the aisle.

The time frame reports of how long she screamed for help seem to be a classic case of survivor's distortion of the events, and media misinformation. She is quoted as having screamed and waited for help for 15-30 minutes, when in reality it was more likely around 3-5 minutes.

I truly believe she did not kill Betsy because if she did, she had ample opportunity to have escaped and not been even related to the case, beyond being a classmate. Also, she was not seen by Dean Brungart as he passed through the core and noted the two men and the lone woman (Betsy) in the stacks in that section.

If you look at the time delay between Betsy being seen alive (4:45 pm, by Brungart) a noise being heard by Brungart (4:50ish), an ambulance being called (5:01 pm) and being pronounced dead (5:19 pm, across campus), it really isn't that terrible of a time lapse. Likely it seemed forever in her mind.

I also am not totally surprised by her going through Betsy's purse. It is my understanding she rode in the ambulance with Betsy and was probably shell-shocked out of her mind by the whole thing. I picture the purse-rifling as more of a "fidgeting" as she waited for some news of her friend/classmate. Imagine a 19-22 year old in that situation...

Morf13, interesting about your suspect! Glad you were able to get ahold of Trooper Barrows. Was there any plausible link between your suspect and Penn State University during that time period, or just a PA link?

 

[morf13]

Morf13, interesting about your suspect! Glad you were able to get ahold of Trooper Barrows. Was there any plausible link between your suspect and Penn State University during that time period, or just a PA link?

Not sure yet. I dont think there were any dfinite connections to Aardsma. Interestingly though, her murder happened in between any zodiac murders and mailings. I thought it may be possible that if my POI had family back in PA, he may have went back for Thanksgiving.

Part of the problem is, the last info i have on him in PA is in 1956, and trust me, he did not leave a paper trail.

 

[littlehorn]

Not sure yet. I dont think there were any dfinite connections to Aardsma. Interestingly though, her murder happened in between any zodiac murders and mailings. I thought it may be possible that if my POI had family back in PA, he may have went back for Thanksgiving.

Part of the problem is, the last info i have on him in PA is in 1956, and trust me, he did not leave a paper trail.

That would make it tough...I do hope Tpr. Barrows is on to something and maybe finds some kind of resolution to this case...

 

[gaia227]

I came across this article today on True Crime Report. Nothing new, but nice to see it getting press.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/12/after_40_years_the_murder_of_g.php#more

 

[psu]

I wonder if anyone ever talked to a man named Eddie who seemed a little older than other students (maybe a vet?). He disappeared shortly after the murder. He lived off campus and may have had some drug involvement.

 

[littlehorn]

I wonder if anyone ever talked to a man named Eddie who seemed a little older than other students (maybe a vet?). He disappeared shortly after the murder. He lived off campus and may have had some drug involvement.

Shoot me a PM if you can. I'd like to hear more about this. I can run it past Sascha and see if he's heard that name. I don't recall hearing that name in our investigations.

 

[littlehorn]

Anyone else heard from the PSU poster here? I've sent a PM and been unsuccessful in reaching them. Wish someone else knew who they were referring to...

 

[TheMutt]

Anyone else heard from the PSU poster here? I've sent a PM and been unsuccessful in reaching them. Wish someone else knew who they were referring to...

I wouldn't get my hopes up. One post and gone. I get the idea there's little if anything to what he said. I can't imagine your friend Sascha not knowing about this if it had any validity. Would be nice to find something new though

 

[littlehorn]

I wouldn't get my hopes up. One post and gone. I get the idea there's little if anything to what he said. I can't imagine your friend Sascha not knowing about this if it had any validity. Would be nice to find something new though

I know, it's just frustrating to have something sort of cryptic like that come out, and then not be able to track it down/not have enough info to pinpoint it.

Sascha and I have thrown around a lot of names but I don't recall an "Eddie" ever being one of them. It's been a couple of months since I've touched base with him though so who knows?

Sometimes tips like that are the good ones, because they lead you down a path that wasn't immediately obvious, and by digging a little bit, you get some new piece of information not even related to the initial tip.

Oh well...

 

[TheMutt]

I know, it's just frustrating to have something sort of cryptic like that come out, and then not be able to track it down/not have enough info to pinpoint it.

Sascha and I have thrown around a lot of names but I don't recall an "Eddie" ever being one of them. It's been a couple of months since I've touched base with him though so who knows?

Sometimes tips like that are the good ones, because they lead you down a path that wasn't immediately obvious, and by digging a little bit, you get some new piece of information not even related to the initial tip.

Oh well...

LEt us know if he has ever heard about a man like this before. You never know

 

[littlehorn]

If I hear anything new, I certainly will let everybody know.

 

[psu]

Sorry--didn't mean to be cryptic or annoying--I just don't know anything else. It's been a long time. This was something on my mind that I wanted to share. I wish I had more information like a last name or address--but this is simply all I know. There was a guy named Eddie who I think was a student--maybe he had graduated already (he hung around campus but lived off campus) and wasn't around after Thanksgiving 69.

 

[morf13]

I have spoken to Trooper Barrows this week, and I can tell you that she is plugging away at the case.

 

[littlehorn]

Drop me an email Morf13 when you get a chance.

 

[morf13]

Drop me an email Morf13 when you get a chance.

Please PM me your email again, thanks

 

[littlehorn]

Done, it's waiting in your PM box.

 

[morf13]

Just saw that the Holly Branagan case is being looked into again. That's good news. Perhaps this is the year that anyone of these cold PA cases will be solved. I know the Aardsma case is being worked hard. Maybe one day soon, police will catch a break!

 

[passionforjustice]

I do feel that this was a random crime - I believe the crime was premeditated but the victim was one of opportunity. She may have triggered something in the perpetrator's psyche, some kind of rage, unknowingly. She could have ignored him. She could have looked at him. Who knows what the trigger was. I think this was someone who wanted to indulge in a thrill killing and was waiting for the right opportunity. The killing did not seem personal to me, just random. Obviously most people don't just walk around with a knife of that caliber, so it seems to me that the killer planned on striking that day and equipped himself.

I think its very likely that the man who said "someone better help that girl" was the killer. However, playing devil's advocate here…it is also possible that it was someone who happened upon her immediately following her being stabbed and the person fleeing. Its possible he saw a girl without any visible injuries, who had urinated on herself, and didn't feel comfortable offering her assistance himself. Weird, yes. But weirder things have happened - some people are apathetic to others in need, unfortunately. He may have just thought she passed out, as did many others until they realized she had been stabbed. Its also possible he was involved in nefarious activity, like drug dealing and not murder, to where he didn't want to stick around and risk being asked questions about what he was doing back there. Maybe this also prevented him from coming forward later - I'd imagine realizing he was a suspect may be a big "oh crap" moment but he'd rather stay quiet - some people won't come forward if they feel it will incriminate them in other wrongdoing. Plus, he may have just been incredibly scared after the fact.

Another thing - I think she was approached from behind and stabbed while the person was behind her, grabbed her and stabbed her quickly through the front. This person must have been tall - I think Betsy was 5'8" and this was done in a downward arch. Plus the strength it took to plunge a knife through the breastbone - its possible it was a female, but it would have to be one very strong and tall one. I just can't see that. I also just can't see her NOT having defensive wounds if the attacker came from the front. The first thing I would do would be try to shield myself - the knife had to be pulled upwards and plunged down, if it was someone directly in front of her I feel like she would have had time to react, put her hands up, encountered some kind of defensive wounds. Not like if a knife is quickly plunged underhand, where you may not have time to react. If someone grabbed her from behind, its possible she grabbed onto the ledge if she thought she was going to be drug backwards. I don't think the first thing she thought was that she would be stabbed in the chest - therefore her hands wouldn't involuntarily go there. Maybe to her mouth if he put his hand over it. Plus, this would eliminate any chance that she would see her attacker, live, and identify him. I think this was VERY quick, get in and get out. I just can't imagine he would have stabbed her from the front and taken the off-chance that she would survive and have seen him. I think if he felt jeopardized he would have stabbed her more, very quickly.

The other thing is that if the area was very small, its possible the killer could have knicked himself on the shelving while he was thrusting the knife. I wonder if they ever checked for inconspicuous small amounts of blood. The half empty soda can - that was from that day? Did they save it for DNA around the lip?

I'm new here and I just wanted to throw this out there. Thanks for listening!

 

[morf13]

Some good points. I personally think her killing wasnt an accident, and it wasnt done by someone caught in a gay tryst. I dont know if she was stalked, but I have my own reason for thinking it possible that someone saw an "opportunity" to kill a girl in a red dress in a library.

Years later, an anonymous letter was sent to the police about her murder. It wasn't a letter of concern for Aardsma, it wasnt a confession from a guilt ridden man that had regret from killing her for whatever reason. Instead it was a cold, insensitive message..." you never did catch the Guy that killed that c**t in the library, did you?" To me that shows someone (if the writer was the killer) that has thought about it for years, and is proud of it. He has continually thought about it. For someone to wait so long to send such an insensitive letter shows malice, planning,and a truly cold heart. That's why I dont think it was a "gay tryst" or an "accident"

 

[littlehorn]

The only reason I don't think it was done from behind is because, after mocking up the autopsy on a life-size mannequin, with myself as the assailant, the grip on the knife to get that angle was so tenuous that I don't feel the strength could have been mustered to complete the attack while controlling the knife. I.E., every time I tried to get that angle, I found myself nearly dropping the knife because it could not be properly gripped.

My own theory, one that I reported to police, is that she was stabbed at an oblique angle from the front.

Here are the stacks:

| - |
| - |
| - |
| X |
| o |


The X is Betsy, the O is her attacker. The top end of the aisle is a dead end. He merely walks down the aisle towards her, she turns to her left slightly to face him/acknowledge him/see who is coming, and he swiftly stabs downward into her chest and can leave as she collapses. The bruising on her chest is consistent with the heel of the attackers palm possibly causing it when he jammed the knife in so viciously.

It seems quite possible that with the knife concealed, your first reaction in a college library when approached down the aisle like that would be to turn to either let the person pass, or see who was coming, and in the blink of an eye, it would be over. The idea that the person attacked her berserker-style from the front is silly -- there would of course be defensive wounds. The attack from behind is unlikely to me because of the hard tile of the floor and the relative silence of the stacks -- you can hear almost everything that goes on down there, and you would definitely have heard an approaching attacker.

The attack through the bookshelves is equally unrealistic to me because of the angle of penetration, etc., and the simple fact that you'd have to have ape-arms to reach through the shelves, around the front of her, and still stab her.