PA PA - Cpl. Robert Corriveau, 20, Downington, 18 Nov 1968

[jacksonbrown]

That would not constitute ID, at least today and probably not in 1968. There would be no way for someone to prove that the person wearing them is the same person whose name is on the dog tags. Even in 1968, I would doubt that someone could use dog tags to establish his identity with the police or at a bank.

They are obviously useful in helping identify someone, especially a body. It would be a bit better that a tattoo or clothing labels, but in itself dog tags would not establish ID.

Maybe not in your eyes, but that is exactly how the dog tags were written, and of course one could not use them at a bank, police station etc, they were for military use. Example had he been killed in Vietnam, the tag would stay with the body... Had they been on when his were discovered the PSP would have had a possible name, they certainly would have had a viable lead and would had pursued the info on the tag.

The tattoos did lead to his ID even though it was 43 years later. When I found his missing persons articles, the tattoos, healed bullet wounds and the photos lead me to him, I didn't need DNA to ID my brother, The DNA was a formality. In 1968 all that would have be needed for ID was a family member and a visual of the body.

I am providing facts. Bottom line he carried no ID.

 

[jacksonbrown]

Did Corporal Corriveau have an injury over his left eye, under the eyebrow? If so, was it fresh?

He had a post-mortem superficial scratch above his eye..

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Maybe not in your eyes, but that is exactly how the dog tags were written, and of course one could not use them at a bank, police station etc, they were for military use. Example had he been killed in Vietnam, the tag would stay with the body... Had they been on when his were discovered the PSP would have had a possible name, they certainly would have had a viable lead and would had pursued the info on the tag.

The tattoos did lead to his ID even though it was 43 years later. When I found his missing persons articles, the tattoos, healed bullet wounds and the photos lead me to him, I didn't need DNA to ID my brother, The DNA was a formality. In 1968 all that would have be needed for ID was a family member and a visual of the body.

I am providing facts. Bottom line he carried no ID.

It is still not "identification," though it would be a lead to identifying someone. I have a a class ring, for example, that has school, year of graduation and my initials. If my body was found wearing it, that could lead to my identity, but it is not identification. At the time, ID would have needed a signature, photo, fingerprint (a thumbprint was used on licenses in some states), or possibly a description. The distinction may important at some point.

Could the cut have been inflicted at the time of death?

 

[jacksonbrown]

This question has nothing to do with helping to solve a 50 year old homicide cold case but..... Why do servicemen/women wear dog tags? What purpose do they serve?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This question has nothing to do with helping to solve a 50 year old homicide cold case but..... Why do servicemen/women wear dog tags? What purpose do they serve?

To identify a dead body in a combat zone. Not to identify someone alive in civilian life or domestically. Even in the early 1970's, at least some military installations required ID to get onto the installation.

Here is an example of one that predates Corporal Corriveau enlistment: https://www.grunt.com/images/newsletter/MarineIDcard.jpg

It is possible that he would the card to access parts of the hospital or enter the building after hours. He could not flash his dog tags.

 

[jacksonbrown]

To identify a dead body in a combat zone. Not to identify someone alive in civilian life or domestically. Even in the early 1970's, at least some military installations required ID to get onto the installation.

Here is an example of one that predates Corporal Corriveau enlistment: https://www.grunt.com/images/newsletter/MarineIDcard.jpg

It is possible that he would the card to access parts of the hospital or enter the building after hours. He could not flash his dog tags.

 

[jacksonbrown]

To identify a dead body in a combat zone. Not to identify someone alive in civilian life or domestically. Even in the early 1970's, at least some military installations required ID to get onto the installation.

Here is an example of one that predates Corporal Corriveau enlistment: https://www.grunt.com/images/newsletter/MarineIDcard.jpg

It is possible that he would the card to access parts of the hospital or enter the building after hours. He could not flash his dog tags.

Yes he had a military "ID" but he did not have it with him while in PA

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Okay. One potential reason to murder the Corporal would be to steal and use it, to get on base or into a PX. We can rule that out.

Would he have worn dog tags within the hospital? Would his clothing have had any identifying marks on them?

I take it he had no money on him.

Do you any more about the cut above the eye?

I have one there, because I fainted and slammed into a wall. If he was standing while stabbed, something similar could have happened.

 

[Richard]

Since Robert was a patient at the US Naval Hospital, it is possible that he had a wrist band type of ID. He might have removed this when going out on liberty.

As a Marine, he would have paid close attention to detail and would certainly have had some sort of issued ID on him when he checked out on liberty from the hospital.

It is obvious that since he had NO ID whatsoever when his body was found, his killer likely took anything that would have identified him. This might have been intentional (to prevent him being identified - or to keep as a souvenir) or simply as a result of the ID being taken with his money (perhaps in a wallet).

 

[jacksonbrown]

Since Robert was a patient at the US Naval Hospital, it is possible that he had a wrist band type of ID. He might have removed this when going out on liberty.

As a Marine, he would have paid close attention to detail and would certainly have had some sort of issued ID on him when he checked out on liberty from the hospital.

It is obvious that since he had NO ID whatsoever when his body was found, his killer likely took anything that would have identified him. This might have been intentional (to prevent him being identified - or to keep as a souvenir) or simply as a result of the ID being taken with his money (perhaps in a wallet).

Richard, Do you know anything of Coatesville VA Hospital?

 

[Richard]

Richard, Do you know anything of Coatesville VA Hospital?

I do not know anything about that VA hospital. I do know, however, that active duty Navy and Marine Corps personnel would have been seen only at the Naval Hospital. After being discharged, they might be transferred/referred to a VA hospital for treatment.

While it is possible that Robert had an acquaintance or friend at Coatesville VA, I think it a remote possibility. He had only been at Phila Naval Hospital (and in the state of Penn.) for a month before he was killed. Anybody he had met at the Naval Hospital who was discharged could have been sent home to any one of 50 states.

It is more likely that he was on liberty with someone at the Naval Hospital, or with someone he met by chance that weekend.

The National Archives in Adelphi, Maryland has complete listings of all staff and patients of the Philadelphia Naval Hospital, as well as information regarding transfers, UA's, deaths, etc.

Many of those folks have been tracked down and interviewed regarding this case. While much information has come out regarding that period, procedures, etc, this case remains unsolved.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I do not know anything about that VA hospital. I do know, however, that active duty Navy and Marine Corps personnel would have been seen only at the Naval Hospital. After being discharged, they might be transferred/referred to a VA hospital for treatment.

While it is possible that Robert had an acquaintance or friend at Coatesville VA, I think it a remote possibility. He had only been at Phila Naval Hospital (and in the state of Penn.) for a month before he was killed. Anybody he had met at the Naval Hospital who was discharged could have been sent home to any one of 50 states.

It is more likely that he was on liberty with someone at the Naval Hospital, or with someone he met by chance that weekend.

The National Archives in Adelphi, Maryland has complete listings of all staff and patients of the Philadelphia Naval Hospital, as well as information regarding transfers, UA's, deaths, etc.

Many of those folks have been tracked down and interviewed regarding this case. While much information has come out regarding that period, procedures, etc, this case remains unsolved.

I sent a reply in conversations, first time I've used that feature, I didn't find it easy.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I know that some hospitals did use plastic ID bands in the late 1960's. I had my tonsils out in 68 or 69 and remember getting one. That was in a civilian hospital.

Perhaps someone would know what the procedures were in 1968. I'm wondering if the hospital would removed his tags as just part of the procedure. They might not have wanted psychiatric patients, in particular, to have something that could be used as a weapon or a choking hazard. They might not be worried about Corriveau specifically, but about other patients.

If it is determined he had no ID card, it becomes important to know what ID, if any, he had.

Is there any more information on the cut? Are their any more injuries on his body that were not from combat?

 

[jacksonbrown]

I know that some hospitals did use plastic ID bands in the late 1960's. I had my tonsils out in 68 or 69 and remember getting one. That was in a civilian hospital.

Perhaps someone would know what the procedures were in 1968. I'm wondering if the hospital would removed his tags as just part of the procedure. They might not have wanted psychiatric patients, in particular, to have something that could be used as a weapon or a choking hazard. They might not be worried about Corriveau specifically, but about other patients.

If it is determined he had no ID card, it becomes important to know what ID, if any, he had.

Is there any more information on the cut? Are their any more injuries on his body that were not from combat?

I was told the cut was superficial, it appeared as such in the photos I have seen. The autopsy did not note it.

He had a scar on his left cheek caused by shrapnel in Vietnam, the autopsy did not note it.

He had significant scarring on his left knee, the autopsy did not note it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was told the cut was superficial, it appeared as such in the photos I have seen. The autopsy did not note it.

He had a scar on his left cheek caused by shrapnel in Vietnam, the autopsy did not note it.

He had significant scarring on his left knee, the autopsy did not note it.

We can eliminate the scars due to combat as being related to his murder.

This cut look like it is straight and horizontal.

It looks deeper than a scratch, e.g. someone's fingernails. I looked at photos of boxer's cuts as well. Most are below the brow, are at an angle, and to the outside of the face; none that I saw were straight and horizontal. Someone punching him, even with brass knuckles, would probably not create that wound.

When someone would hit someone with a nightstick, bat, or even at wo by four. They will hit at angle, not horizontally.

A knife, even in a near miss, would could possibly create a horizontal wound, if it was a slashing wound. The fatal would was stabbing, not slashing, and if the same weapon did both, the stabber would have to reposition the weapon in his hand. It is unlikely for that to happen useless the was a struggle.

However, if Corporal Corriveau was falling forward and hit something with a horizontal edge, like a table or counter.

Do you have any information on the angle of the wound? For example, was it an upward or downward thrust.

 

[jacksonbrown]

We can eliminate the scars due to combat as being related to his murder.

This cut look like it is straight and horizontal.

It looks deeper than a scratch, e.g. someone's fingernails. I looked at photos of boxer's cuts as well. Most are below the brow, are at an angle, and to the outside of the face; none that I saw were straight and horizontal. Someone punching him, even with brass knuckles, would probably not create that wound.

When someone would hit someone with a nightstick, bat, or even at wo by four. They will hit at angle, not horizontally.

A knife, even in a near miss, would could possibly create a horizontal wound, if it was a slashing wound. The fatal would was stabbing, not slashing, and if the same weapon did both, the stabber would have to reposition the weapon in his hand. It is unlikely for that to happen useless the was a struggle.

However, if Corporal Corriveau was falling forward and hit something with a horizontal edge, like a table or counter.

Do you have any information on the angle of the wound? For example, was it an upward or downward thrust.

Again, the cut was superficial, not deep, as I've been told and have read. No defensive wounds, anywhere on his body. He had no bruising at the sight of the scratch. Could have been received being scratched when leaving body up against fencing, construction area. How was body brought to sight? The reports didn't report drag marks.

Stab wound was at the forth rib in upward motion. The entire blade was used, it penetrated the heart and lungs. To me that indicates murderer(s) was taller. If his body propelled forward and hit the body of the perpetrators it's possible bruising and cuts would not have marked Bobbys' body.

He did have family and friends that he would get close to physically, confident they would not stab him. It is possible he knew and was confortable with the person (s).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped.

Again, the cut was superficial, not deep, as I've been told and have read. No defensive wounds, anywhere on his body. He had no bruising at the sight of the scratch. Could have been received being scratched when leaving body up against fencing, construction area. How was body brought to sight? The reports didn't report drag marks.

The cut would not have to be too deep; had it been inflicted on a living person, the victim would not need stitches, for example. There would not be too much bruising around the time of death, if any.

The fence would only create a mark if the body fell face first into it. It would very likely that there would have dirt around it.

There are two possible ways, at least, to inflict that cut.

This is a bit graphic. The killer could have put could have come up to the corporal, possibly put on had on his shoulder, and with his dominant thrust with the weapon. The killer then steps back and Corriveau falls forward, hitting his eye on a table edge or something similar.

The body is being loaded into the cargo area of a vehicle, like a trunk, and the body falls forward and the cut is inflicted postmortem.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There are three ways that body could have gotten to the spot.

1. It was put in the passenger side seat of a car and the killer/assistant pulled in, opened the door, lifted the body under the arms and moved it to the fence. Possibly a second person could have lifted the body by the feet.

2. The body was put into the trunk or cargo compartment of a vehicle. Probably two people then grabbed either end of the body and moved to the fence.

3. The Corporal was killed at the site and the killer put the body into the sitting position.

The third possibility is the least likely.

 

[jacksonbrown]

There are three ways that body could have gotten to the spot.

1. It was put in the passenger side seat of a car and the killer/assistant pulled in, opened the door, lifted the body under the arms and moved it to the fence. Possibly a second person could have lifted the body by the feet.

2. The body was put into the trunk or cargo compartment of a vehicle. Probably two people then grabbed either end of the body and moved to the fence.

3. The Corporal was killed at the site and the killer put the body into the sitting position.

The third possibility is the least likely.

There are three ways that body could have gotten to the spot.

1. It was put in the passenger side seat of a car and the killer/assistant pulled in, opened the door, lifted the body under the arms and moved it to the fence. Possibly a second person could have lifted the body by the feet.

2. The body was put into the trunk or cargo compartment of a vehicle. Probably two people then grabbed either end of the body and moved to the fence.

3. The Corporal was killed at the site and the killer put the body into the sitting position.

The third possibility is the least likely.

It was a damp morning, the ground would have been moist due to a light rainfall. There were no tire marks, footprints, or scuffle marks reported. If he were killed on location I would think some of those would have existed. It would have taken more than a split second to commit this crime. Clearly the murder scene was elsewhere.

How heavy is traffic on the pike between the hours of 7:30 and 11:00 a.m.? Certainly it was daylight. The trooper reported he had travelled the route several times that morning and did not see the body. Bobby was stationed at Philadelphia Naval Hospital and found westbound on the pike. Is it likely his body was disposed of in the dark under lighter traffic conditions?

The autopsy stated death had occurred 12-24 hrs prior to the discovery of the body. He was due back at the hospital by roll call Monday a.m. The records reported he was absent at 7:50 a.m.

I suppose two assailants are possible although nothing has been presented to indicate that's the case. A struggle would have definitely taken place, he would have had defensive bruising on his body, he would not have gone down lightly, he would have fought back. It will never be known whether he were drugged, passed out or otherwise. Surprise attack, or comfortable with his killer(s).

Why does the cut above his eye have any importance. That was minor compared to the hole through his heart and lungs.

 

[Richard]

It has now been 50 years since Corporal Robert Daniel Corriveau, USMC was murdered. He was finally identified and given a funeral with full military honors in 2012, but his killer remains unidentified and the case is still open.